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Confusion over what can and can't eat, what is classed as high carbs and sugars

M

mirdragon

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I was newly diagnosed T2 just before Easter and see mixed information on what can and can't eat.

I love fruit and see yes you can eat it then other places no you can't or limit what you can eat. We have an allotment with plenty of fruit bushes (blackberry, raspberry, gooseberries), we also grow strawberries and rhubarb.

I usually make a rhubarb or gooseberry crumble and my wife makes plenty of homemade jams. I know the jams will be a problem unless she can use an alternative, and I know I can use alternative sweetening for crumbles, but would I still be able to have these or not. I do love grapefruit but because of the meds I'm no longer able to eat or drink juice.

I was also told to not bother checking about calories on stuff and limit my calories but to look at the carbs and sugars within foods, but what is classed as high carbs and high sugars and I know carbs will convert into sugars but is that the bit that says carbs 50g of which 49g is sugar or is it in addition to this.

This is the same with meats, I was advised to cut down or not eat certain meats, but these I currently only once or twice a month at the most (ie bacon, pork, lamb, mince, sausages) and to eat turkey, chicken, fish or liver.

Also what about potatoes and vegetables as this is another area where I see mixed information of what can and can't eat and was told that potatoes can cause issues.

I know a lot of the food I like is not really good for you, but working with the wife, we're trying to look at stuff that the whole family can eat without too much change that we will all enjoy.

Overall it's a lot to take in and big change not just for me, but other family members so any advice would be appreciated.

I've also been offered to attend a video course about diabetes, so i'm hoping this will give me a bit more info

thanks
 
mirdragon said:
This is the same with meats, I was advised to cut down or not eat certain meats, but these I currently only once or twice a month at the most (ie bacon, pork, lamb, mince, sausages) and to eat turkey, chicken, fish or liver.
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Who gave you that woefully bad advice?

mirdragon said:
but what is classed as high carbs and high sugars
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Personally I tried to avoid anything with more than 5g of carbs per 100g
Some here try for 10g of carbs per 100g obviously your meter will tell you which group you fit into but the usual message will be the fewer carbs the better long term.
 
mirdragon said:
I know I can use alternative sweetening for crumbles,
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Just noting that it is the crumble topping itself which is a problem, regardless of sugars.
If it has flour, oats, anything from grains then it is carbohydrate heavy.

When carbohydrate counting you count the total carbohydrates.
The "of which sugars" just tells you which bit is going to hit first and hardest.
 
Hi @mirdragon
Have a look here, https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb . Lots of very clear advice, a simple to follow graphics on the best things to eat and what to avoid.
Turning to rhubarb, we treat it as a vegetable (which, of course it is), rather than a fruit (which of course, it isn't). Somewhere I have a recipe using it with roast chicken, I also make rhubarb and celeriac soup, not a hint of sugar or sweeteners in sight.
Sally
 
There has to be a promotion of foods with a long shelf life, that are transportable, can be traded on the markets, hyperpalatable, cheap with government subsidies.

The good news is that sites like this have tens of thousands of individuals who go by real world results and personal experiments. The most poplar eating methods involve meat, fish, diary, berries and low carb vegetables; there are some minority methods with varying degrees of success. People customise the basics with treats and are more fat or more protein (more recently).

As diabetes is the main concern, many do not care for food politics, religion, dogma and the like, but what works. Science cuts through also with results like this: https://www.virtahealth.com/blog/2yr-t2d-trial-outcomes-virta-nutritional-ketosis.

In general eating is easily the most important aspect, around 80%, then the other variables such as sleep, stress management, movement, relationships optimise recovery. Some get great results on diet only and maybe walking, some add fasting and or exercise.

Here are some food ideas from the angle I come at (protein / healthy fats, keto veg and exercise). These meals are some examples used by the so called fitest humans on the planet - cross fitters:

(This for me is the best site on the Internet, as it has everything)
https://www.youtube.com/c/crossfit/videos:












 
Personally I count total carbs but your way works for the lower levels. counting percentages can lead to exceeding g daily allowances. If you have 5G per 100g and eat 2.5kg of food in a day then potentially 125g of carbs which is low carb, but 10g/100 you can work out is into the 250g a day which is well out of low carb levels.

but we all are different. I can seem to cope with 150g carb a day (find out in a week when my hba1c is done) and others need much lower.

Other don’t carb count and look to fast 800 or significant weight loss. It’s an individual choice, many of here do highlight low carb as it’s been so successful for them. Personally I didn’t do the study, I carb counted, calorie counted and exercised. Lost a lot of weight and now am drug free. One or a combination of those worked, but that’s me, I threw lots of things at it when I wanted to change.

@mirdragon there are websites like dietdoctor that others have said, looking at keto recipes is a good way to go very low carb even if you don’t want full keto

Fruits and veg can be confusing. Generally fruit is higher carb, especially tropical. But some fruits and ‘technical’ fruits are not so bad. So berries, tomoatos, cucumbers, avacados etc, dietdoctor will show

whereas starchy veg like potatoes (never quite sure if a veg or not), parsnips, leeks are not good

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/vegetables
 
I’m with @bulkbiker, I just try not to eat anything with more than about 5g carbs 100g, and certainly not more than 10g/100g. Those between 5 and 10g/100g I restrict. I don’t have any targets or count calories or ‘do my macros’ for keto. I just avoid carby food. And test and test in the early days, and whenever I introduce something new. Milk and bread were really bad for me - I have replaced milk with double cream, and bread - I have learned to live without this, with relative equanimity after a few months of searching (unsuccessfully) for an alternative which was acceptable to me.

The fruits you mentioned are the lower carb fruits and can probably be eaten in moderation, but you really need a blood glucose monitor to test your blood and see how they affect you personally. I am fortunate, strawberries and raspberries don’t affect me too much, especially when eaten with double cream which spreads and flattens the spike somewhat. But if you stew or cook the rhubarb and gooseberries, you need to use an appropriate sweetener rather than sugar - I use stevia/erithrytol mix.

You can eat most of what your family enjoys with a few simple changes for you - cauliflower instead of rice, courgette instead of pasta, extra green veg instead of potatoes, stewed fruit instead of crumble, or look at keto crumbles for a low-carb alternative. Google ‘keto’ anything to see what low-carb versions are out there, there are alternatives for most things if you look and fancy trying them.

And forget everything you thought you knew about ‘healthy eating’ and do a little reading around. You will find that natural fats, red meat, dairy, eggs etc are not the demons as we have been lead to believe, whereas carbohydrates, glucose, sucrose and especially fructose are very damaging. I know, we sound like cranks, which is why I say do a little reading yourself and make up you own mind. Review the info in conjunction with your meter, which has no bias.

Many people on this forum have normalised their BG, lost loads of weight and feel amazingly better simply by following a low carb way of eating. No special foods, shakes, slimmer’s clubs, just... low carb ordinary food.
 
I have berries with real custard - eggs and cream, and once in a while make a trifle using sponges made with ground almonds.
Cream or sugar free jelly - sometimes with yoghurt whipped into it make a nice dessert with fresh fruit in warm weather.
Any meat or fish, eggs and cheese are all fine as they are first of all essential foods, and secondly low carb.
I set 10 percent carbs as the absolute maximum for everyday foods. I do go over that for chocolate, but I only have one square at a time, and not every day.
 
A lot of advice I got was from docs, when i asked about stuff as I said I prefer pork, lamb and steak. And on top when looking at stuff online.

I know rhubard is a veg and I could eat it just stewed with custard or tip-top.

I do love pies, cakes, biscuits (as most people probably do) but I've already cut down on these.

I think it will be more or less trying to work out what I can and can't eat and what I can tolerate.
 
I really want to have you as my personal chef. I have serious meal envy.
 
mirdragon said:
I do love pies, cakes, biscuits (as most people probably do) but I've already cut down on these.
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It’s not just the sugar in these but the flour too that will cause a problem. There are better flours out there if you want to bake your own for a more gentle transition to low carb.
 

Ok well any meat or fish should be fine as they are virtually zero carb.
Veg that grows above ground should be ok too.
Anything made from grains/flour/general stodge will be bad.. root veg not great and fruit stick to berries.
Obviously anything with sugar will be awful.
 
I've got some granola and porridge to eat, so will ration how much at time to have.

As for meats I'll limit bacon and sausages and try to get the wife to eat grilled versions rather than fried.

I think the next few months or so will be a learning curve

But thanks to all for the replies and information provided
 
As far as blood sugar goes bacon is fine, sausages depend on what’s been added to the meat. Check the label looking for the highest meat content, lowest fillers and the carbs level should easily come in under 2g per 100 g if it’s quality. Bad options are as high as 15.
Fried isn’t a problem if using a real natural fat to fry in. Processed seed and vegetable oils are definitely to be avoided and if that’s the only option grilled is better.
Fats (natural ones) are not your enemy. I know that sounds counter intuitive but it is the carbs, alongside processed fats that cause the problems for type 2 (and others potentially heading this way).
 

Tip top is skimmed milk and palm oil - not something I would consider as food, even though it is under 10 percent carbs.
 
This worked for me.

1. You need to unlearn all the standard NHS healthy eating advice, all the assumptions made by the media, your family and friends about what's healthy and what's not. I do mean all.


2. As Type 2 diabetics we are not, by definition, good at handling carbohydrates. Some of us are better than others at it but we all have the same problem. Eating carbohydrates causes our blood glucose to rise out of control and that causes us physical damage.


3. Eating carbohydrates, of any kind, is therefore potentially going to cause us a problem as Type 2s.


4. Just how big of a problem depends on the individual.


5. Test your blood glucose and record your results to find out what your pattern and tolerances are. Then cut the things that cause the rises.


6. Nobody will do this for you. Only you can do this.
 

Any meats will be fine ... bur care with the granolas ...

BTW, your screen name associated with the Soviet space station @mirdragon ? Spooky in the extreme if it wasn't.
 
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bulkbiker said:
Bin it.. your health is more important surely?
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Kind of Agree as it’s likely to be high carb and could spike the bloods and seeking alternatives is a good idea

It is possible these don’t impact, so test to the meter... but in general agreed if possible to do so as when I changed my style I used up what I had but monitored and reduced quantities a lot, but also appreciate it might not work for everyone

Also, bin as last resort. if unopened and in date and no one in house can use. food bank it
 
I'll bin the granola

But this is where it gets confusing as the diabetes UK magazine they have given me both by hospital and doctors say you can eat whole oats.

They also say not to stop eating fruit and whole fruit is fine but recommend berries, plums and peaches.

So can see why people get confused when seeing different information being handed out to them.
 
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