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COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

The term ‘herd immunity’ was not introduced by Bojo and his mates at the press conference. Nor was it described at that press conference.
https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/herd-immunity
the term refers to a vaccinated population.
Everything I have read suggests that we are a year from a viable vaccine, so government decisions this year will not reflect ‘herd immunity’ next year, post vaccination.

It seems that the media has leapt all over it (as usual), put words into print, and now everyone is running with it.

I mean, this always happens, doesn’t? No matter what the situation, the misinformation rumour machine just spins and spins.

ed. For typo
 
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yep..BS

the only hope is, as said in the article, people and business decide en mass, to just not be the cannon fodder.
many business are shutting down,
all those sporting events are businesses,
Nike said it would shut up shop

this will, encourages others to do the same


the staff will see that as well, and when looking out at the European model..ask WHY,

many will decide that the risk is too great, take time of,
if enough do that will force companies hand,

the schools etc
If the staff at theses ballot the heads etc the same will happen,

all the main groups the govt are depending on being infected will be looking after themselves far a way
from as much danger a possible,
the Model for Whack-a-prole collapses, and we then move to the next level, why would we wait ?

the whack-a -prole model is defunct, long live the king..
and quarantine/lockdowns call it what you will, but it will follow the more established European model..
 

yet we ARE out of step with other nations ?
doesn't that disturb you.?
 

Glad you said it. I was beginning to think I was going mad, since I hadn't seen any government officials talking about this "herd immunity" malarkey that BoJo and Co are now getting lambasted for by everyone and their dog
 
jjraak said:
yet we ARE out of step with other nations ?
Click to expand...

yup.
I addressed that in an earlier post today.
No point in repeating.

My last post was about how the phrase ‘herd immunity’ has been whipped into a rallying cry, fuelled by misrepresentation.

we ALL get to choose how seriously we take this pandemic and what measures we personally take. We can’t affect other people’s behaviour whether they are politicians, employers or mother-in-laws...
 

Sorry Brunneria but you're wrong on this one. It was used by Sir Christopher Vallance when the 3 wise men gave the press conference (which I cannot find a clip for.) And he discusses it again here (see 5:20)..
 
The health minister was on tele this evening and it looks like they are developing comprehensive policies to isolate the elderly from the virus and produce as many ventilators as possible to cope with the peak. If we have too many we will ship them elsewhere.

Apparently it was never the plan, to, my words, let it rip to achieve herd immunity!

We must have a real problem understanding their expositions.
I am just happy they appear to have changed their emphasis.
D.
 
urbanracer said:
Sorry Brunneria but you're wrong on this one. It was used by Sir Christopher Vallance when the 3 wise men gave the press conference (which I cannot find a clip for.) And he discusses it again here (see 5:20)..
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. Excellent interview.
He certainly makes it very clear that the whole ‘60% immune’ goal is a much longer term view than the measures planned in the next few weeks and months.

If the earlier interview you mention referred to ‘herd immunity’ was it in the context of a shorter timeframe than that?
 

He wasn't the first, Liam Fox mentioned this well known process on the Radio 4 am prog as being a valuable process of the first peak, it was circa 10 days ago. He said we didn't want a bad peak next winter when the health service couldnt cope and immunity caused by the first peak would stop a big overloading peak.

I was really quite surprised at the time and mentioned it to my neighbour, who had also noticed he had said it.
D.
 
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Another thinking out loud moment, I wonder if the anti vaxers will get vaccinated when the CV19 vaccine is available...
 
Tipetoo, I've thought about this a lot. I probably won't because even though I'm in three high risk categories, I'm in good health, and am very proactive about my health. Additionally, I self-isolate immediately if I have symptoms suggestive of possible illness, and wash my hands regularly as recommended to protect myself and others. I got into this habit when boss was going through cancer treatment, which lasted two years, and the habit stuck. I personally prefer to become ill so my immune system recognizes and responds to future viruses.

That said, I do support and encourage anyone who chooses to get vaccinated for flu and pneumonia, particularly my friends who are at high risk.

I still remember what happened with the H1N1 virus in 2009/2010 - (from the CDC)...

The 2009 H1N1 Pandemic: A New Flu Virus Emerges
The (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from H1N1 viruses that were circulating at the time of the pandemic. Few young people had any existing immunity (as detected by antibody response) to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus, but nearly one-third of people over 60 years old had antibodies against this virus, likely from exposure to an older H1N1 virus earlier in their lives.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html​

Around that time, a father shared with me that when his daughter became ill, the doctor told him if at all possible to keep her out of the hospital to reduce her risk of becoming infected with something else. He was so scared. Talk about a tough decision. He stayed with her all night, holding her hand as she slept on the couch. Thankfully, she made it through the night and by the next morning they saw signs she was recovering, much to their relief.

I'll never forget that year.
 
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I was curious enough about the whole ‘herd immunity’ thing to watch this vid again, in its entirety.
Can definitely confirm that the term ‘herd immunity’ is not mentioned once.
Although ‘60% immunity’ is briefly mentioned as a long term way of preventing endlessly recurring epidemics.

 
If herd immunity is a long term objective, how can it help reduce health service overload next winter, which has been a clearly stated objective?
It is not unknown for groups, including governments to rewrite what they say.

Its just that cults are far better at it than Western democracies! D.

 
This is interesting... [selenium (Se)]

Published: 12 February 2011
Review: Micronutrient Selenium Deficiency Influences Evolution of Some Viral Infectious Diseases

A few excerpts...

To scope whether the findings of Beck and of Broome [20–22] apply to other VIDs, a world map depicting regions of “low soil-Se” (<0.01 mg/kg) [23] was superimposed with geographic origins of diseases [24] (Fig. 1). Pandemic influenzas type A (H2N2 “Asian,” H3N2 “Hong Kong,” and H5N1 “Avian” influenzas) and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) originated in biogeochemically “Se-poor” regions of China; HIV/AIDS and Ebola hemorrhagic fevers (Ebola “Zaire”, Ebola “Uganda”) originated in nutrient-depleted regions of sub-Saharan Africa (SSA). A literature review of worldwide human blood Se assays indicates sparse data from Se-poor regions of China and SSA, which can fall substantially <1 μMol Se/L (Fig. 2); reported diets there provide as low as 10–17 mcg of Se per day [25, 26], compared to the US recommended daily intake of 55 mcg of Se per day.

[Click on link below to see map]

Etiology of these [viral infectious diseases] VIDs suggests that vulnerable populations in any geographic region enduring chronic nutritional Se deprivation, for any reasons, could become spawning grounds for virulence of innate benign but opportunistic RNA viruses. If infectious, the virulent virus can be transferred even to individuals with Se-adequate status. Monitoring incipient hot spots for immune system biomarkers, agricultural productivity, and adequate and nutritious food supply to local populations, is a small order for helping to tame local or global RNA viral virulence.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12011-011-8977-1?shared-article-renderer
​
More reason to take a good quality multi-vitamin and mineral supplement. I just checked, mine has 70 mcg selenium.
 
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I've seen so many interviews on tele and heard on radio, to know they have changed their emphasis, over whatever you would like to call it and I am pleased they have.

200 scientists who criticised their approach I believe were right and probably were the reason for the u turn.
D.
 

lindisfel,

I cannot believe the cognitive dissonance going on over this in the media and even here on the forum.

Herd immunity is something that is fostered, by vaccinations, in order to suppress disease. It is a farming term.
https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/herd-immunity

The 60% immunity the UK govt refers to seems to be something they hope will emerge due to the controlled roll out of anti-COVID-19 measures that they are slowly revealing. They hope to slow and extend the peak to ease pressure on the NHS over the Spring and Summer.
That was clearly explained in the youtube vid I just posted.

Will these measures have the same effect as vaccinations?
No one knows.
We don’t know how long immunity lasts after recovery from COVID-19
Heck, we don’t even know if there will be significant immunity at all.
The evidence isn't there yet.
The UK govt is hoping, guessing and IMHO trying to give the UK population hope that isolation and massive lifestyle change will make a difference. These measures will be rolled out in future, and we are being warned they are coming.

The media have, with typical media sound-bite catchy labels, attached a farming term to a carefully chosen non-farming phrase used by politicians and scientists in press conferences, and because it is sound-bitey and catchy, people are now repeating the media label.

Maybe, after enough people have contracted and recovered from the virus, there will be fewer people incubating it.
Personally, I see that as a good thing. Especially if it means I can pop round to my MIL without risking passing it on to her.
But it won’t be ‘herd immunity’.
That may turn up next year, when the vaccinations roll out.
 
Cobia said:
My question is...

Why expect the eldlerly and disabled have to be there at 7am...?

They should have a later time most retired people may have a bit more trouble rising at 5am....

Just a thought....
Click to expand...
I have no problem waking up around 5:00 am, it's just starting to get light at that time in autumn.,we might take advantage of it most probably.

My age is in my profile...
 
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