COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

The comparison of the UK deaths to the US death rates are important. Those numbers give us the best understanding of what's actually happening throughout tha world. The modelers in the US are beginning to support the idea of opening the US back up.

Here's the problem in the US: states that chose to not shelter in place are beginning to explode now. Look at Alabama...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc334...ama-healthcare-workers-infected-with-covid-19

That's where I grew up so I've been monitoring what's happening there. The governor made a huge mistake. She let each county and city governments decide what measures to impose on their citizens.

What's happening in the UK right now is likely our future eventhough we began experiencing deaths at the same time.

One important difference is population density - (average number of people per square mile). I believe the UK population is 8 times more dense than the US, which in my mind means the spread of COVID-19 is going to continue to worsen here.

I also want to add, I think hospital workers in the hardest hit areas are taking the anti-malaria drug in the US. I don't know that, but every time the topic is reported here, it's immediately shut down.

Save us from armchair experts with the benefit of hindsight and the lack of any responsibility. Whatever they say doesn't have to be practical or even safe because they don't have to make any difficult decisions and they can't be blamed if it all goes wrong.

Mr_Pot said:

Save us from armchair experts with the benefit of hindsight and the lack of any responsibility. Whatever they say doesn't have to be practical or even safe because they don't have to make any difficult decisions and they can't be blamed if it all goes wrong.

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Well said @Mr_Pot

Mr_Pot said:

Save us from armchair experts with the benefit of hindsight and the lack of any responsibility. Whatever they say doesn't have to be practical or even safe because they don't have to make any difficult decisions and they can't be blamed if it all goes wrong.

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Mr. Pot, I'm unsure if your comment is directed to me or not. If it is, you're completely misunderstanding me.

My intent is not to cast blame. I understand that we're all making the best decisions we can based on the information we have at the time. We're all struggling.

I'm trying to better understand what our new and current reality is, now and over the months and year ahead. What I need to do for myself, my family and friends, and my neighbors to get us through this.

I read every day about what's happening in our country and around the world. What's working, what's not. My husband and I now have a good understanding of how to optimize and maintain our good health. We also have a plan in place for what to do if one of us has to be hospitalized. Additionally, we're in communication with those in our circle and helping one another as needed. Yesterday, a friend whose husband works in the construction industry, gave us four N95 masks. We kept two, and gave the other two to individuals who like us are in multiple high risk categories.

My understanding is that until countries have adequate testing capacity, we won't be able to identify and trace infections fast enough to make much of a difference. That leaves the shelter in place strategy for now. But at some point, we will have to return to work.

It's believed that the virus will ramp up again during the 2020/21 flu season. And the reality is, we can only shelter in place for so long. Comparing the UK deaths to US deaths yesterday forced me to face that I have no choice but to figure out how my husband and I can successfully return to work in a dangerous environment for the next 16 months because neither of us have work that allows us to work from home, nor do we have the financial resources to shelter in place.

I go into our office three days a week. From the beginning, I implemented strategies to protect myself and my co-workers. I bring all the food and water I need for the day from home so I don't need to use the water cooler, refrigerator, microwave, coffee maker, or hot water. Our employer has provided all the supplies we need to disinfect our work stations daily. I provided a station with alcohol and cotton balls to disinfect our smart phones. We wash our hands throughout the day repeatedly. We have strict social distancing policies. We have masks on back order but it will likely be months before we'll receive them. Some staff are beginning to make masks and wear them at work.

What keeps me up at night is thinking about what I still need to do, not casting blame. Thinking about what I'm doing right, identifying what I'm doing wrong, making adjustments along the way.

When I post here, I'm simply thinking out loud. I'm trying my best to be proactive.

HarryBeau said:

In view of your comments about non-experts sitting at home on the sofa being fed media sound bytes I wonder how you would explain those senior scientific & medical advisors who take issue with how the virus is being approached by this government & their advisors. There has been a lot of contrasting/opposing opinions from experts & scientific advisors who disagree with how the crisis is being handled at the moment, believe there is another way a better way. its a fact we do not have enough PPE, we have suffered heavy losses from the virus we are short on provisions there is little testing people are worried by that, there is no sense of normal at the moment, we are all trying our best but we won't all agree, is it right to dismiss those dissenting laymen as someone with an axe to grind taking pot shots from a position of 'sofa expert'.

A harsh judgement I feel.

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you are entitled to your view.
I am entitled to mine.

you have, however, added rhetoric and unnecessary spin to my statement, and therefore misrepresent it.

I was referring to non-experts sitting on the sofa, passing comment (with their own political axe to grind).
I was not referring to people who have the knowledge and expertise to offer qualified viewpoints, who do so professionally and with a good understanding of a complex situation.

Those who are knowledgeable and have expertise on a complicated subject usually choose not to communicate in rhetoric and soundbites.
- Although they are often misquoted and misrepresented by people wishing to make a dramatic point.

Brunneria said:

added rhetoric and unnecessary spin to my statement, and therefore misrepresent it.

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I disagree with those comments I made it clear I was talking about dissenting laymen not the experts or scientific advisors. Your references to sofa experts were clear, I have not added spin or misinterpreted them at all. MY point is even those laymen who do not agree with the scientific advisors presented by this government are entitled to an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

HarryBeau makes an important point, even the experts are struggling with determining the best way forward. And to that I'll add the attacks on one another here are brutal at times. In my mind, that's not helpful.

HarryBeau said:

I disagree with those comments I made it clear I was talking about dissenting laymen not the experts or scientific advisors. Your references to sofa experts were clear, I have not added spin or misinterpreted them at all. MY point is even those laymen who do not agree with the scientific advisors presented by this government are entitled to an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

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Then we are in agreement over one thing then. We both agree that people are entitled to differing opinions.
I just try and ensure that my opinions bear in mind that life is made up of shades of grey rather than black and white absolutes.

Thank you for not shouting at me (in bold) in your latest post.

Winnie53 said:

the attacks on one another here are brutal at times. In my mind, that's not helpful.

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Winnie, if you see such posts please report them so that action can be taken.

Brunneria said:

Thank you for not shouting at me (in bold) in your latest post.

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I wasn't shouting at you my post was in bold as a result of messing up the font type when I posted. I can make my point effectively without having to resort to shouting thank you.

I think it's important to remember that scientists are just people. No one knows it all. Even the alleged experts. Expert opinion on anything should be taken seriously and added to the debate, but nothing anyone says or calculates is infallible just because they're an expert. Most of us here know this more than most with regard to diabetes, and the same holds true of any subject.

In general, though, people like to criticise from a position of 20/20 hindsight. It's human nature - things happen and then we rationalise them as though we knew it all along. It saves us feeling powerless.

Jim, well said. It's addressing that state of feeling powerless that's driving me right now in my thinking and actions.

jjraak said:

We wandered into lockdown @Winnie53
24:march first full day of it, though other actions had been taken.

We wasted the time we did have to avoid being the new Italy.
Biggest danger we have is Hancock

Told us in Jan it was a ok.
Now you can see the panic in his eyes

Our HCP dying in larger numbers,
And he either doesn't bother counting them
Or is too terrified how we'll react at the high numbers

Nurses, doctors all now openly saying they are scared .

We have lost control of this for the moment.

And it Comes to something when President trump can Laud you on the one hand, and then bury you moments later and not even blink.

"Boris approval 300%"
"UK messed up, badly.went herd. Had to back track hurt them badly"... Says the wise one

Wales, Ireland already stated lock down goes on...ours once again pretending they have a clue and are looking at the science before doing exactly that.

Take care @Winnie53

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jjraak, whether we continue the shelter in place strategy beyond May 4th in Washington state hasn't been decided yet. (My latest strategy to keep stress levels down to a reasonable level is to ignore our president and listen instead to those state governors and experts whose reasoning is based on what's known, as opposed to what we want to be true. Husband votes republican, I vote Democrat and have a strong personal dislike for Trump, so this is best for our marriage.) What was Boris' position previously? What is it now? I haven't been following UK politics.

I had to give up my health insurance. We just can't afford it. We're small business owners. Work my husband does in March is delayed until May or June. And we had to replace our van after my husband's accident last November. My plan was to get a second job or find a full-time job this spring. That's highly unlikely now.

How are you and your family holding up?

Mr_Pot said:

Save us from armchair experts with the benefit of hindsight and the lack of any responsibility. Whatever they say doesn't have to be practical or even safe because they don't have to make any difficult decisions and they can't be blamed if it all goes wrong.

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Here here!

When the 200 scientists wrote to the government to review their strategy, many of us fully endorsed the scientists.

Anyone who had ever done O level maths or beyond could see where we were heading.

10,000 plus will have died today in uk hospitals, what an indictment.

Politicians are not organisers, we should see how the Germans for eg get things done and emulate their actions.
Listen to our scientists and engineers and willing hands who come up with solutions.
Politicians are mainly interested in their image and spin.
What an insult to imply misuse of protection equipment by medics.
It is beneath contempt.
D.

lindisfel said:

When the 200 scientists wrote to the government to review their strategy, many of us fully endorsed the scientists.

Anyone who had ever done O level maths or beyond could see where we were heading.

10,000 plus will have died today in uk hospitals, what an indictment.

Politicians are not organisers, we should see how the Germans for eg get things done and emulate their actions.
Listen to our scientists and engineers and willing hands who come up with solutions.
Politicians are mainly interested in their image and spin.
What an insult to imply misuse of protection equipment by medics.
It is beneath contempt.
D.

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have to agree, fully.
happy to join you on the repugnant side of life..
nice to see i'm not alone having the decency to see this and stand up and be counted.

we will NOT be silenced..right .....

( be careful of the torrent of abuse, though
as you know experts are the only one allowed to speak on this subject: FACT.

Which is rather a weird stance ..
considering the entire ethos of the forum SEEMS to me to challenge and ignore the official advice..
go figure ..people are so funny sometimes..confused, but funny ...)

see patel's attempt at an apology...disgusting.
the business secretary refusal to offer an apology..now that IS truly repugnant

they just don't get THIS do they.

Sure there are many too scared to participate, due to the tone and abuse.
sad but it is what it is.

happy for those who just want to stand on the sidelines saying how well everything is going
but i think we all have a duty to stand up and witness this.

The Repugnant Pirate

I'm not seeing any of this alleged abuse, to be honest. All I see, as ever, is people sharing their views. Disagreeing with others isn't a form of abuse. Although granted, I don't think I even know what's going on in here anymore

jjraak said:

see patel's attempt at an apology...disgusting.
the business secretary refusal to offer an apology..now that IS truly repugnant

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There was no apology any attempt at an apology that begins with 'IF' cannot be an expression of sincerity as for voicing my opinion I have followed the rules & procedures as detailed by DCUK I haven't seen or heard anything here so far that breaches them.. I agree with @lindisfel we have the expertise but did not call on it until too late. There has to be room for robust discussion in any forum, we need to be civil & courteous & not abuse our positions but we need to be able to express our opinions freely.

Winnie53 said:

jjraak, whether we continue the shelter in place strategy beyond May 4th in Washington state hasn't been decided yet. (My latest strategy to keep stress levels down to a reasonable level is to ignore our president and listen instead to those state governors and experts whose reasoning is based on what's known, as opposed to what we want to be true. Husband votes republican, I vote Democrat and have a strong personal dislike for Trump, so this is best for our marriage.) What was Boris' position previously? What is it now? I haven't been following UK politics.

I had to give up my health insurance. We just can't afford it. We're small business owners. Work my husband does in March is delayed until May or June. And we had to replace our van after my husband's accident last November. My plan was to get a second job or find a full-time job this spring. That's highly unlikely now.

How are you and your family holding up?

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sheltering in place Winnie as the US call it.

we are doing OK.
taking precautions, running food to the wife's father.
trying to stay occupied

horrified at how we are managing this
our Royal college of nursing, repugnant as they are

have told nurses they have the right to NOT treat patients if they don't have the appropriate PPE

We KNOW they will still treat patients because of who they are
BUT HOW ON EARTH did we EVER get to a situation like this, with such a winning team

I think you are right to ignore the top tier,
they seem so removed and out of touch.

Had a BBC post saying that PPE was offered by a consortium of manufacturers, last month y
et no one has got back to them a month later.
so little urgency all round...needs a good shake up i think.

I have watched new york, ,,Cuomo VERY impressive.
a tweet from a guy i spoke to in Seattle seemed very happy with the response,
so i suppose it does seem patchy, but my lesson from having watched Wuhan, Italy, Europe, and now sadly the UK

is prepare, prepare, prepare....as much as possible.
don't waste a minute.

what was normal last isn't thi week,
and whats normal this week isn't normal next week.

as a state as a street, as a family .
stick up those med's you might need IF you can still get them.
food here, is good in London, patchy elsewhere.

online now being designated for the unable, the able are being asked to go to supermarkets
to save the slots for those who can't..but sure many ignore this,
elderly now feeling threatened in queues designated for them.

So not great, but we prepped so pretty ok, could get a a lot mire ugly yet

huge numbers where out and about, despite lockdown..a delicate balance needs to be made there

But the lockdown ratchets up a little bit each up tick (what an awful word for dead people )
of the numbers.

How is things over there ?
i always enjoy your more informative posts, but sometimes especially in situations like this, it;s nice to hear the more personal
things.

Our street, god bless them..looks out for each other, and one family perform a 3 song concert each night .
it's not the best music, but my god i love them for it...it's touching and beautiful at times.
had to choke back for a moment when they played a song request for Liverpool fan.

had NO idea how hard that could hit during this crisis, now rapidly becoming a catastrophe.


stay well
stay safe.
stay brave.