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Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

I have just seen on this evening's Sky News that the infection rate in the UK for 10 to 19 year olds - the secondary school age group- is 16.2 per 100,000 people. And, incidentally, that it is 28 in 20 to 29 year olds.
I think it is unbelievable that the Govt, as an employer, thinks it can possibly be safe for teachers and education support staff to return to secondary schools. We know that children rarely get serious consequences from Covid (though that's not much consolation for the families of the few that do), but older and vulnerable teachers will certainly suffer.
 
Keir Stamer tells Sky News the test and track system on verge of collapse.
Trial of leading vaccine put on hold due to adverse reaction in participant
Infections in my area have tripled and a whole school has closed.
It's illegal for groups larger than 6 to meet indoors( schools and workplaces excluded).
Despite all this vulnerable workers can just carry on regardless.
Indeed Max it beggars belief.
I wish you all the best for today Max.
My union rep suggested more options for negotiating with my employers. Any mention of issues like the above or those raised on this thread just seem to meet with non committal sympathy and asking whether GP sign me off again.
With regards to sick pay Max are you entitled to Universal Credit?
 

Wishing you all the best as well. Universal Credit is a very grey area as if you leave a job voluntarily you get sanctioned and are unable to claim for months. You are also expected to take any job that is offered. Not sure if maybe there is a way to leave the job without it being a voluntary decision or not and it may be something I will have to look at between Union and employer.

I've written back to my MP with all the good it will do! Obviously I have concentrated on my own circumstances and as much I would like to battle for the whole teaching fraternity I don't think my energy levels would cope with that burden!


Dear

Thank you again for your reply. I do appreciate your correspondence and efforts.

That’s very unfortunate about the pension. I really do think in these unprecedented times further support because of the situation should be considered for the vulnerable. I haven’t been paid furlough or received benefits and yet I’m sadly unable to access my own money in a pension to protect myself until a vaccine may become viable. The government has an opportunity to bring in a law change, even if temporary in this time of a crisis, to help the vulnerable help themselves.

I have sadly spoken several times with my GP. The last was for her to confirm that I have a “Covid Age” of 67, (I am 52), which just confirms that it places me at a higher risk. She admitted that by working from home I would be therefore able to protect myself but she is hamstrung by Government guidelines and advised me that at this moment in time only a specialist can write a letter to advise employers that you should work from home. Thankfully I am currently not ill with my diabetes so I am not under a specialist, but at the same time I am at a higher risk for severe illness or death due to Covid due to my diabetes. This is the quandary we face and I have said before I am trying NOT to become ill but my GP seems unable to help and offer me protection due to the aforementioned guidelines.

I read this evening the following in the news with interest -

Social gatherings of more than six people will be illegal in England from Monday - with some exemptions - amid a steep rise in coronavirus cases. A new legal limit will ban larger groups meeting anywhere socially indoors or outdoors, No 10 said.
But it will not apply to schools, workplaces or Covid-secure weddings, funerals and organised team sports.

"It is absolutely critical that people now abide by these rules and remember the basics - washing your hands, covering your face, keeping space from others, and getting a test if you have symptoms."

Health Secretary Matt Hancock yesterday warned MPs that the UK was on the brink of a second Covid peak.

He said Britain has seen a “concerning rise” in coronavirus infections which could lead to more deaths in just a matter of weeks.

He went on: “Each and every citizen has a responsibility to follow social distancing and help stop a second peak.”

The thing is Ms.Davies, my personal circumstances are that I live alone. How do I cope if I get seriously ill, if of course I am lucky enough to avoid hospital or worse?! I can't survive on sick pay and how long my employer would accept me being signed off due to stress is a lottery. Likewise others at higher risk have families. How will their families survive if the bread winner becomes ill?

The government have a potential crystal ball here with the serious rise in cases and with winter just around the corner. If Mr Hancock is really serious about avoiding a second wave and further deaths then surely its common sense for the Government to produce proactive guidance to employers that the clinically vulnerable must work from home until it is safe. The Government must be proactive with this as we know what the risks are now the vulnerable are back at work and the outcomes of the lag effect.

The government stated at the start of this pandemic that protecting the vulnerable was a priority. They also stated that protecting the NHS was also a priority. Why be reactive and wait until we are all overloading the hospitals again? With this rise in new infections and a second wave on its way the clinically vulnerable are in a horrifying position when a proactive change in “work from home” guidance to employers could keep them safe.

I will not be able to stand outside a classroom doorway in the fresh air for ever and soon will be forced into a small classroom at all times with others not wearing masks and social distancing guidelines impossible. Totally the opposite for what Number 10 advise on how to keep safe above!!

Without trying to be too blunt, who takes responsibility if I were to die from Covid because of a lack of duty of care by my Government?


Kind regards,
 
Brilliant letter Max. Sums it up perfectly.
Re the Universal Credit you can claim if you are working. Obviously it depends on personal circumstances etc. I'm getting it at the moment which surprised me ,but then I'm officially employed but not being paid a penny or any sick pay. What happens if I resign of course changes situation.
If claiming as unemployed you have to apply for jobs but I have a feeling by November so will millions of others.
There are benefits checkers such as Entitled To which are very helpful.
 
The leaving the job voluntarily is the situation I'm facing. Theres the ongoing issue of risk/ covid safety with employers who ignore all requests. It will probably come to a head next week when sick certificate runs out. It's a stressful process where increasingly feels I'm powerless. Tomorrow will be spent repeating same information to a higher management member. My current manager has disappeared.
 

To be honest I'm not entirely sure it is just down to younger people. You only have to look around to see what happens on a warm day or look at people shopping in towns & cities, not to mention those who are now trying to get to work. It's everywhere, young people are more likely probably to go to a house party or 'illegal' gathering but there are plenty of oldies doing their bit to contribute to the spreading of this thing. x
 
Yup, there are. There were a few of them in the supermarket, the oldies that is, who were wearing their masks but under their noses. I understand the reluctance to be constrained by what may be the last years of life, but not the lack of care for others while shopping.
Maybe the article I posted above will be of use to anyone who’s older, or lives with and/or cares for older relatives, and is feeling worried about returning to work? Be warned, it’s not an article that underplays the way the immune system responds in older people.
 
Reactions: JRT
It is concerning. I'm on Gransnet and opinions are very diverse. What is worrying is when those who are vulnerable ask for advice. One lady in particular described herself as in her 80s and bit frail and was wondering if she should return to her voluntary job in a hospital coffee shop. People on the forum aged from 50s upwards. The consensus was live your life,as long as wash hands be ok,go for it.
Of course no one would want this lady to be isolated or unnecessarily cautious but there are so many factors involved including does she take public transport to get there,what are local levels of infection etc. I think what was a possibility a month ago may be more problematical now.
 
Fairygodmother said:
An interesting (worrying if you’re older), article on the ageing immune system: cytokines play big part


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/...mune-system.html?referringSource=articleShare
Click to expand...
I intend to look into supplements etc that would reduce inflammation. I have already got some turmeric and also whey protein which allegedly is a precursor in the body for making its own glutathione, a major antioxidant .I have no special knowledge of any of these things, just hoping for the best.
 
ert said:
Another day and still more schools affected: 90 UK schools have cases
https://www.lep.co.uk/health/corona...ve-cases-coronavirus-heres-which-ones-2963556
Click to expand...
Cases after less than a week in school so likely an artefact of a previous illness or community acquired? Kids are coming in with common cold symptoms and being told to test. It does not mean that those cases will lead to illness or infection of others. Please keep looking at hospitalisations and deaths to see if any of these cases in the young actually cause us any problems. You may have seen Prof Carl Henigan's take on this but here he is in the Mail (2nd September).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8689021/There-no-second-wave-UK-Oxford-expert-says.html
Here is Ivor Cummins (well known in these parts as far as metabolic disease goes but really a great data analyst):
 
Scottish children have been back to school 3 weeks ago, Some English schools have been back for over a week. Some Welsh schools have been back for nearly a week, with a weekend in the middle, so plenty of time for symptoms to appear. It can only take 48 hours to get symptoms .
 
ert said:
Another day and still more schools affected: 90 UK schools have cases
https://www.lep.co.uk/health/corona...ve-cases-coronavirus-heres-which-ones-2963556
Click to expand...

Yep, just watching the latest update and I think we all know where we are likely to be in a few weeks time. Even if younger people aren't dying you have to wonder about any long term effects of catching it. I don't understand these naysayers, I appreciate there are a lot of unverified 'facts' and exaggeration around but those who simply brush it off as a hoax make it worse for the rest of us. x
 
Those in bubbles of 6 will be in daily contact with others. The people who make up the six can vary from day to day. I have no idea how this latest weeze is supposed to help.

Today, in the same few sentences, Boris said both that children are known to be carriers, and that schools are safe.

I notice that the two medical officers kept contradicting Boris about the time frames and difficult of this 'moonshot' idea.

I just want a reliable and available testing system NOW, which will then help us to have a reliable track and trace system. Not some idea Boris has come up with for the Spring.
 

Yup. And so utterly predictable. I still cannot believe that people actually fell for the idea that children don't catch it, or pass it on. They have caught and passed on every other passing bug since the dawn of time. Rather naive to think that this one would be so utterly different.

Of course, the average child won't become particularly ill, but that doesn't mean they won't be passing it on to vulnerable adults around them.

All I hope is that the parents of all these children are ensuring that they, the parents, the children, and the children's other contacts, have zero contact with anyone in a high risk group, whether through age or a health condition.

(My mother in law has 2 of her grandkids over every Thursday evening for tea. I suggested that they do NOT restart the 10 yr long tradition now the kids are back in school around here. They looked at me as if I was insane. It just wouldn't work. That is the evening Mum goes to the gym, and Dad works late. Of course the kids will go and eat with their 86 year old Grandma. How absurd to suggest otherwise!)
 
Here is the detail in New Scientist if you wanted to buy one:
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...g-the-mystery-of-what-causes-severe-covid-19/

And here is the plain English summary from Pub med:
Summary
In late 2019, a new virus named SARS-CoV-2, which causes a disease in humans called COVID-19, emerged in China and quickly spread around the world. Many individuals infected with the virus develop only mild, symptoms including a cough, high temperature and loss of sense of smell; while others may develop no symptoms at all. However, some individuals develop much more severe, life-threatening symptoms affecting the lungs and other parts of the body including the heart and brain. SARS-CoV-2 uses a human enzyme called ACE2 like a ‘Trojan Horse’ to sneak into the cells of its host. ACE2 lowers blood pressure in the human body and works against another enzyme known as ACE (which has the opposite effect). Therefore, the body has to balance the levels of ACE and ACE2 to maintain a normal blood pressure. It remains unclear whether SARS-CoV-2 affects how ACE2 and ACE work. When COVID-19 first emerged, a team of researchers in China studied fluid and cells collected from the lungs of patients to help them identify the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Here, Garvin et al. analyzed the data collected in the previous work to investigate whether changes in how the body regulates blood pressure may contribute to the life-threatening symptoms of COVID-19. The analyses found that SARS-CoV-2 caused the levels of ACE in the lung cells to decrease, while the levels of ACE2 increased. This in turn increased the levels of a molecule known as bradykinin in the cells (referred to as a ‘Bradykinin Storm’). . Previous studies have shown that bradykinin induces pain and causes blood vessels to expand and become leaky which will lead to swelling and inflammation of the surrounding tissue. In addition, the analyses found that production of a substance called hyaluronic acid was increased and the enzymes that could degrade it greatly decreased. Hyaluronic acid can absorb more than 1,000 times its own weight in water to form a hydrogel. The Bradykinin-Storm-induced leakage of fluid into the lungs combined with the excess hyaluronic acid would likely result in a Jello-like substance that is preventing oxygen uptake and carbon dioxide release in the lungs of severely affected COVID-19 patients. Therefore, the findings of Garvin et al. suggest that the Bradykinin Storm may be responsible for the more severe symptoms of COVID-19. Further experiments identified several existing medicinal drugs that have the potential to be re-purposed to treat the Bradykinin Storm. A possible next step would be to carry out clinical trials to assess how effective these drugs are in treating patients with COVID-19. In addition, understanding how SARS-Cov-2 affects the body will help researchers and clinicians identify individuals who are most at risk of developing life-threatening symptoms.
 
You're missing the elephant in the room. For instance, at my school there are 1200 students, support staff, teachers and students between 11 and 19 are not in bubbles or socially distancing, as that's impossible. It doesn't matter where they've bought cases in from, the issue is that it will spread. This is happening up and down the country. And, if you've been reading the posts here, the thread has been how they have forced the vulnerable and extremely vulnerable teachers back into the classroom. I'm worried that hospital deaths will rise now we're back at work we can't isolate as we could over summer, and the children are mixing at school and returning home to vulnerable family members.

You can't compare the current death rate to what has gone before. The death rate has been closer to 70 a day in August if using the method of recording COVID before the change to the 28-day rule.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/
 
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I am sure Boris will get it done, as soon as the airport in the Thames Estuary, the Garden Bridge and the bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland are completed.
 
Like I said let's keep an eye on the actual hospitalisations and deaths which remain really low even in Scotland which has been back at school for a month and also be mindful of the terrible consequences of shutting our schools down.
Let's also think about all those shop workers who whilst the teachers were at home carried on working and were exposed to the great unwashed day after day at a time when infections were much much higher. There has been NO reported association between this group and workplace spikes with most infections being acquired at home (NY data). Teachers are very much used to catching various other lurgies from the kids (flu and colds) but this particular lurgy may just not work in that way.
 
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