Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

JRT

Well-Known Member
Messages
256
It does appear to be very contradictory. It appears to make sense that financial support is offered to those who are more at risk if they want it. Maybe it would be cheaper than the money involved supporting businesses/ unemployed. Items are appearing more on news etc of problems experienced by vulnerable groups. A large proportion of deaths are elderly or disabled. Of course for that to happen you would need a government who showed even a hint of real concern about those groups.
So if it's a disease that only kills a small percentage of people why dont they just lock us away or let us die and everything can carry on as normal?Surely all this economic turmoil isnt due to the governments wish to protect vulnerable people?
Maybe its nothing to do with deaths but the potential affects of long covid on other groups, groups it is implied are less vulnerable. Who knows?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lucylocket61

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
It's clearly an individualistic disease in more ways than one but unfortunately the Government isn't treating it that way. Goonergal makes a very valid point above about how the situation affects many whereas for instance my situation the mental health aspect has been created by the vocational situation I am in. If my employer or the government had said as they did back in April that they would allow me to work from home but reduce my hours and pay to compensate for that I would never had handed my notice in. Likewise if I had been in a "safer" environment again I would still be there. Individual circumstances beyond age and comorbidities are not taken into account.

Interestingly prior to making any decision I spoke to the head of the mental health team at the school, usually only reserved for pupils. Absolutely fabulous guy, a top class gent. The idea was to get to the root of my anxieties re Covid but in the end he didn't really have any suggestions because in his words my anxieties were real. He knew as well as I that the school couldn't make things any "safer" and that it was a lottery as time went on so after that chat it made my kind up. I live alone as I've said before so the hermit like existence doesn't bother me but I can fully understand how many don't want that.

Kids can be incredible though. One student came up to me yesterday and said that he had heard I was leaving and asked why. He was very complimentary which was nice to hear and is a bit of a joker as he always asks why I war a spacesuit!! (mask and visor!!) I explained that my hearing was an issue in classes and that I had a condition that may not be that great to have if I was to get Covid, without going into too much detail so not to try and worry him. He replied, and I was staggered with what he said, that he didn't blame me because "it's difficult to protect yourself from something you can't see". I was quite frankly speechless but he hit the nail on the head.
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Agree, and not just for employers. For some (and I am one of them) the mental health issues arise through not being able to continue as ‘normal’.

I don't think we can forget that employers can also have mental health challenges at this time. For many of those who want to trade, it must be a nightmare balancing their books.

Those who gave personal guarantees, or fixed and floating charges against overdrafts, loans or mortgages could quite readily be bricking it by now.

The proportion of privately owned, even family run - some for decades - in precarious situations or worse, must be huge.

For me, whichever way it goes, it's a no-win/no-win situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JRT

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
I don't think we can forget that employers can also have mental health challenges at this time. For many of those who want to trade, it must be a nightmare balancing their books.

Those who gave personal guarantees, or fixed and floating charges against overdrafts, loans or mortgages could quite readily be bricking it by now.

The proportion of privately owned, even family run - some for decades - in precarious situations or worse, must be huge.

For me, whichever way it goes, it's a no-win/no-win situation.


On top of all that managers and owners have the safety of everyone who works for them and who enters the premises in their minds and on their shoulders which is extra pressure. My Head looks a shadow of the man he was last year. Lost an incredible amount of weight and looks permanently exhausted. Really sympathise for the load he has on his shoulders.
 

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Very sad and shows that this virus is unpredictable on how it affects people. You can have all the risks and be fine or have no risks and not be fine. You just don't know how you are going to be until you get it, which is why the best protection right now no matter who you are is to try and not get infected!

Influencer Dmitriy Stuzhuk dies from COVID-19 after denying its existence

https://news.sky.com/story/influenc...covid-19-after-denying-its-existence-12107174
 
  • Like
Reactions: lucylocket61

Tannith

BANNED
Messages
1,230
Tonight on TV I saw a young woman who said she had got covid in March despite having stayed indoors and last week a 70 year old woman who was recovering in hospital & said the same, she had been shielding. One can't know what they did wrong to get it but we have to assume that even for those who are shielding and don't have carers coming in there are still risks of catching it. Delivery people bringing food perhaps? It is obviously a highly infectious virus and I find it scary that even those who take extra care are getting it.
 

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Tonight on TV I saw a young woman who said she had got covid in March despite having stayed indoors and last week a 70 year old woman who was recovering in hospital & said the same, she had been shielding. One can't know what they did wrong to get it but we have to assume that even for those who are shielding and don't have carers coming in there are still risks of catching it. Delivery people bringing food perhaps? It is obviously a highly infectious virus and I find it scary that even those who take extra care are getting it.

I still wipe down food whether from a shop or click and collect just in case. I also never wear my shoes further than the front door, although I have always been that way inclined anyway! Having said that I don't change certain clothes like a coat every day but I know some that do,. As you say you just don't know.

Another article below suggests hospital beds in certain areas are running out. This is what I cannot get my head around. There are obviously those who believe that this is only a little flu and the restrictions are against certain liberties and some of the angst has been vented towards the fact that people are dying of other causes due to the shut downs of certain treatments due to Covid. I get that I really do but how is it helping those with other conditions if the wards are full of Covid infections? What if a high proportion of those in hospital with Covid are from avoidable circumstances? What if they are there due to the fact that they or someone else was not wearing a mask or hadn't socially distanced as per the guidelines? Of course we will never know those figures but if wearing a mask or socially distancing from others, no matter how inconvenient, saves one hospital bed for someone with another condition then surely it is worth it?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coro...-nhs-report-reveals/ar-BB1a9z6k?ocid=msedgdhp
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Tonight on TV I saw a young woman who said she had got covid in March despite having stayed indoors and last week a 70 year old woman who was recovering in hospital & said the same, she had been shielding. One can't know what they did wrong to get it but we have to assume that even for those who are shielding and don't have carers coming in there are still risks of catching it. Delivery people bringing food perhaps? It is obviously a highly infectious virus and I find it scary that even those who take extra care are getting it.

To be honest, I'd not be inclined to say they'd done anything wrong. That seems to me to be apportioning blame, where none may be due.

Whilst we may be a few months in with this virus, we are decades into co-existing with other viruses in the same family and still only have sketchy ideas on their management.

I'm sorry that both these folks have contracted Covid, despite their best efforts, but I just have a very string niggling feeling that those who are shielding very strictly are opening themselves up to all manner of ails - whether the common cold, shingles or whatever, but not mingling in society (peck of dirt theory) and, by exception, allowing various casual immunities to drift lower.

I'm not suggesting we should all be out there, hugging strangers in Lidl or M&S, that's for sure, but sometimes mitigating risks bring risks of their own, which can be just as dangerous. In my view.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HSSS

JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,245
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Tripe and Onions
I'd be quite willing to take my risks with the common cold thank you not so much with covid 19 though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zand and JRT

Tannith

BANNED
Messages
1,230
A news item I watched showed a survey testing hygiene in restaurants supposedly covid safe. Swabs of the tables found e coli. It's not dangerous like covid but this doesn't say much for either the hand washing of the customers or the management's cleaning procedures for wiping the tables between customers. Perhaps the tables got an occasional cursory wipe with a dirty cloth? Or none? I wonder if ordinary people like customers and waitresses are actually capable of sustaining, long term, the levels of cleanliness needed in a pandemic? Perhaps, after the first couple of days, enthusiasm for hygiene measures waned?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jbicheno and JRT

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
A news item I watched showed a survey testing hygiene in restaurants supposedly covid safe. Swabs of the tables found e coli. It's not dangerous like covid but this doesn't say much for either the hand washing of the customers or the management's cleaning procedures for wiping the tables between customers. Perhaps the tables got an occasional cursory wipe with a dirty cloth? Or none? I wonder if ordinary people like customers and waitresses are actually capable of sustaining, long term, the levels of cleanliness needed in a pandemic? Perhaps, after the first couple of days, enthusiasm for hygiene measures waned?

I can't say I have eaten out oodles during The COVID times, but I have done, including as recently as Friday.

All I can say is two-fold; firstly to admit that my focus, during my restaurant experience wasn't on supervising the waiting staff cleaning routines, but I did feel they were diligent in dealing with vacant tables, and with tables becoming vacant, and I have always found there to be plenty space between us and our next closest diners.

Did you happen to note the source of the information quoted in the article? I'd like to read that.

to be honest, in these times when the hospitality industries are fighting for their survival, I'd be astonished if they were being wilfully negligent, but then I'm not at the hub of any of these things.
 

NicoleC1971

BANNED
Messages
3,450
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
I can't say I have eaten out oodles during The COVID times, but I have done, including as recently as Friday.

All I can say is two-fold; firstly to admit that my focus, during my restaurant experience wasn't on supervising the waiting staff cleaning routines, but I did feel they were diligent in dealing with vacant tables, and with tables becoming vacant, and I have always found there to be plenty space between us and our next closest diners.

Did you happen to note the source of the information quoted in the article? I'd like to read that.

to be honest, in these times when the hospitality industries are fighting for their survival, I'd be astonished if they were being wilfully negligent, but then I'm not at the hub of any of these things.
I would like to echo that as someone who works in hospitality albeit in the gym of a members' club, we are dilligent with our routines (one way, regular cleaning and additional deep cleaning, masks and numbers in the building aat any one time) sometimes to the irritation of members who enjoyed being more spontaneious!
I recently committed a minor infringement and have been hauled over the coals for it (I was mortified to have forgotten something).
I think if anyone shone a light over any surface where people have been you'd be hard pressed not to find something (analogous to constantly looking for the corona virus in healthy people) but I think people should make up their own minds if the place they are eating their food in looks clean, has staff with no dirt under their fingernails and messy hair etc. with pleasant toilets, to decide if they feel comfortable. You may wish to dodge the virus and presumably e coli infections too.
Alternatively if you come to my gym the mats are definitely clean enough to eat your dinner off!
 
  • Like
Reactions: zand, Max68 and JRT

JRT

Well-Known Member
Messages
256
I would like to echo that as someone who works in hospitality albeit in the gym of a members' club, we are dilligent with our routines (one way, regular cleaning and additional deep cleaning, masks and numbers in the building aat any one time) sometimes to the irritation of members who enjoyed being more spontaneious!
I recently committed a minor infringement and have been hauled over the coals for it (I was mortified to have forgotten something).
I think if anyone shone a light over any surface where people have been you'd be hard pressed not to find something (analogous to constantly looking for the corona virus in healthy people) but I think people should make up their own minds if the place they are eating their food in looks clean, has staff with no dirt under their fingernails and messy hair etc. with pleasant toilets, to decide if they feel comfortable. You may wish to dodge the virus and presumably e coli infections too.
Alternatively if you come to my gym the mats are definitely clean enough to eat your dinner off!
I think it was a trailer for Dispatches next week. I agree, Covid aside, hygiene in cafes / take aways can be problematical. All you can do is look at the food rating which should be displayed. As you say if somewhere visibly looks unsavoury theres not a lot of hope for what's happening behind the scenes! Rather grim documentary last week about sandwich production!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Max68

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
I can remember many many moons ago in the days when you needed to wear a suit and tie to get into a nightclub and the music was actually worth hearing, after a few lagers or my old friend Jack D a late night kebab was always a necessity! The sort of kebab you would never have eaten sober! I remember asking if I could use their loo one night. I was directed around the back and even a tad worse for wear couldn't believe what I was seeing with food sitting on the floor and stacked high in dodgy looking hole ridden bags. Don't think we ate there again!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jbicheno and JRT

KK123

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,967
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I can remember many many moons ago in the days when you needed to wear a suit and tie to get into a nightclub and the music was actually worth hearing, after a few lagers or my old friend Jack D a late night kebab was always a necessity! The sort of kebab you would never have eaten sober! I remember asking if I could use their loo one night. I was directed around the back and even a tad worse for wear couldn't believe what I was seeing with food sitting on the floor and stacked high in dodgy looking hole ridden bags. Don't think we ate there again!!

I was going to say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger but given the nature of the thread.....:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jbicheno and JRT

Jbicheno

Well-Known Member
Messages
115
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Another interesting meeting (by telephone). This time with occupational health. All I want to do is to be allowed to wear a face mask at work to reduce my risk of getting Covid and the possible severe illness that may follow. The problem I have is I work in a primary school and face masks are forbidden. This is causing great anxiety and I am currently signed of work by my GP (reluctantly).
Once again I was told we must follow the Government guidelines. There seem to be no circumstances, where I live and work, that allow any diversion from these. Everyone I have spoken to trots this phrase out.
I have found something online from my LA which is in its guidance to primary schools which states ‘Face coverings would have a negative impact on teaching and learning and so their use in the classroom should be avoided if possible, however there may be circumstances where you feel this request is reasonable, taking the individual’s circumstances into account, and you should keep this under review.’ This was the most recent advice I could find and dated 12th October 2020.
To me, as this is referring to staff, this opens the door for me to be allowed to wear a mask and alleviate my anxiety about being in the crowded classroom with no social distancing.
However, it seems, once again the recommendation is going to be ‘get counselling’ to help with my anxiety. I do have a counselling session booked, 5th December!
I am getting so frustrated that such a simple request is causing so many problems. I don’t hold out much hope that my request will be accepted and am beginning to think there is some hidden agenda with regard to the lack of precautions a vulnerable person is allowed to take in school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tannith and JRT

JRT

Well-Known Member
Messages
256
Another interesting meeting (by telephone). This time with occupational health. All I want to do is to be allowed to wear a face mask at work to reduce my risk of getting Covid and the possible severe illness that may follow. The problem I have is I work in a primary school and face masks are forbidden. This is causing great anxiety and I am currently signed of work by my GP (reluctantly).
Once again I was told we must follow the Government guidelines. There seem to be no circumstances, where I live and work, that allow any diversion from these. Everyone I have spoken to trots this phrase out.
I have found something online from my LA which is in its guidance to primary schools which states ‘Face coverings would have a negative impact on teaching and learning and so their use in the classroom should be avoided if possible, however there may be circumstances where you feel this request is reasonable, taking the individual’s circumstances into account, and you should keep this under review.’ This was the most recent advice I could find and dated 12th October 2020.
To me, as this is referring to staff, this opens the door for me to be allowed to wear a mask and alleviate my anxiety about being in the crowded classroom with no social distancing.
However, it seems, once again the recommendation is going to be ‘get counselling’ to help with my anxiety. I do have a counselling session booked, 5th December!
I am getting so frustrated that such a simple request is causing so many problems. I don’t hold out much hope that my request will be accepted and am beginning to think there is some hidden agenda with regard to the lack of precautions a vulnerable person is allowed to take in school.
I have every sympathy with you. It's a totally non sensical situation. If you were sat on a less crowded bus for a fraction of the time it would be illegal not to.!
Over the summer being in a similar position drove me to distraction.
I have however realised that outside of the work situation I am fine with living with the virus, well as fine as anyone would be. I follow the rules but I'm not worried about leaving the house!
I felt,as others have,that it was as though you were told a situation was risky but that it didnt matter.
I think in March there was a feeling of some structure. Some individuals were shielded others high risk. Gradually that message is less heard and seems very diluted.
It has been said,sometimes in jest,that this is the governments way of cutting health and social care bill. Are the government this malicious? Who knows. I think its important to acknowledge that vulnerable people being asked to shield or take extra precautions was pretty much for the benefit of the NHS rather than their welfare. Many struggled and had care services redirected, support services erratic etc. Care homes,no explanation needed. The government could be given the benefit of the doubt,unprecedented situation blah blah. However in the intervening months apart from token gestures lessons havent been learned.
Those most affected by Covid the elderly, unwell,poor,BAME, low wage/status employees are groups that governments show little concern for anyway. They are told to return to work if its covid safe. Johnson's standpoint is he has said it is so it will be.
I think over the summer the hope was that things would be made good. Unfortunately for those working in health,social care,education other than token gestures it wasnt. Procedures to ensure it was were flimsy and at breaking point pre covid.
So as an individual you are placed in a nonsensical situation. When the disparity between theory and reality becomes unbearable counselling is suggested.
I am not being disrespectful of counselling or those that benefit from its services.
One has to ask however how would it help? If you are in a situation where PPE would offer you extra protection but you are denied protection how is discussing it going to change that? A very extreme example but if a fire fighter was told they had to enter a smoke filled room without oxygen supplies there would be outrage. I dont think any amount of yoga or mindfulness would be acceptable!
I think as well its important to bear in mind that there are some occupations that regardless of vulnerability are told to work from home as its safer. No arguments, no questions asked.
So in essence you are in an illogical situation which you are trying to resolve with logic. Vulnerability whether due to underlying health conditions, race etc offers no guarantee of protection. The only real protection is to be able to financially remove yourself from the situation.
One thing that did stand out for me was you saying your GP was reluctant to sign you off. I was in exactly the same position. When I last spoke to my GP she very specifically asked if I was anxious regarding any other areas of my life. I told her I wasnt it was specifically this area of work. She had admitted on many occasions that she had lots of patients in the same position. She said she would contact me the following day. She did,by TEXT stating it was not the practices policy to issue sick notes for anxiety about covid in work place.
I was stunned. Firstly a text message gave me no form of redress. I know I would have commented about how she would have felt in my situation. GPs are making sure they are protected. I think they may have had one to many situations where they have had that conversation hence text.!
Also whatever the cause anxiety is anxiety,is it ethical to dismiss it if due to Covid?
That more than anything made me wonder if a government memo had gone out! After all if all those people who were working and vulnerable were signed off the economy would crash even more quickly!
Finally on my local news last night were 3 GPs who had had Covid and no had long covid, all were relatively young. It really goes against my nature but I'm afraid my empathy was on the same level my GP had shown me. After all,all they had to do was follow the guidelines.....
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tannith

Jbicheno

Well-Known Member
Messages
115
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
It is strange isn’t it how reluctant GPS are to acknowledge this illogical situation? I did have one who wrote to my school requesting that I should be allowed to wear a mask. However, during the time it took for the LA to decline my request we did have a staff member contract Covid19. When I telephoned her for advice she basically told me I was overreacting and that I had nothing to fear. I was advised to go to work with no protection! I never slept that night, awoke with a migraine so my husband called me in sick.
I totally agree re counselling. I am not usually an anxious person but the lack of being able to protect myself is causing my anxiety. I’m fine when I don’t have to go in. I do want to work. I have explained this to GPs and now occupational health but I might as well be talking to my cat.
I have been doing my job for 18 years and on the whole have thoroughly enjoyed helping children to achieve their potential and would like to carry on doing this. I am however, seriously considering my options, one of which is resigning which seems ridiculous considering I’m only asking to wear a face mask!
 

JRT

Well-Known Member
Messages
256
It is strange isn’t it how reluctant GPS are to acknowledge this illogical situation? I did have one who wrote to my school requesting that I should be allowed to wear a mask. However, during the time it took for the LA to decline my request we did have a staff member contract Covid19. When I telephoned her for advice she basically told me I was overreacting and that I had nothing to fear. I was advised to go to work with no protection! I never slept that night, awoke with a migraine so my husband called me in sick.
I totally agree re counselling. I am not usually an anxious person but the lack of being able to protect myself is causing my anxiety. I’m fine when I don’t have to go in. I do want to work. I have explained this to GPs and now occupational health but I might as well be talking to my cat.
I have been doing my job for 18 years and on the whole have thoroughly enjoyed helping children to achieve their potential and would like to carry on doing this. I am however, seriously considering my options, one of which is resigning which seems ridiculous considering I’m only asking to wear a face mask!
There is a definite shift in GPs. Mine in March was definitely supportive about the risk of being exposed to Covid although admitted their was no box to tick for diabetics. What is behind this turn around I would love to know. As you say it's like talking to a brick wall and you definitely are made to feel you are being silly.!
Coincidentally on tv this morning where a young mother who gave birth in March still hadn't seen sight nor sound of a health visitor. She hadn't a clue how much her baby weighed. She was suffering from depression which her GP had prescribed antidepressants for. Ordinarily I would understand the need for social distancing and the problem of entering peoples homes. Arguably phone calls/video calls would have helped.
I dont begrudge health care professionals protection but what increasingly angers me is their apparent hypocrisy. I will carry on as normal when they do.
It may be that it's time for you to make some choices if you are able. Things are not going to change. I know my Union rep has said the problems faced by shielders are horrific and they were offered more initial protection.! Maybe in time the bigger picture will be available. Until then ,good luck and stay safe.