Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[NicoleC1971]

[QUOTE="NicoleC1971, post: 2332667, Perhaps all the moralising over mask wearing might lessen if we were to discover that infection rates are lower than we imagine?

Yep, and then the law might change to reflect that...meanwhile.....[/QUOTE]
Okay. Think we will be waiting awhile as the government seems more interested in models than real data.
Meanwhile ,,,,jobs, health and hope ebb away.

 

[hankjam]

as the government seems more interested in models than real data.

womdering if they use real data in their models.

 

[NicoleC1971]

womdering if they use real data in their models.

Models are projections and I am sure they put different scenarios in based on reasonable assumptions. The problem is that the worst case is always assumed which is why we got a model that was out by a factor of 12 (the infamous Ferugson one) if you applied to a mask less and non lockdown country such as Sweden. Despite this 'data' we have repeated the lockdown and the data upon which this decision was made is not being openly shared just the worst case scenario modelling again...

 

[Max68]

Sweden got it wrong on herd immunity and failed to adequately prepare for the second wave of coronavirus, the country's former chief epidemiologist claims.

Annika Linde has criticised her successor, Anders Tegnell, amid a sharp rise in infections, including a record 5,990 confirmed new cases on Friday, and hospital admissions surging at the fastest rate in Europe.

She claims "wishful thinking" led Tegnell and his team to wrongly to believe that herd immunity would protect the country from another wave of Covid-19 this autumn.

Linde, who was Sweden's state epidemiologist until Tegnell took over in 2013, claims the Public Health Agency has been reluctant to plan for the worst throughout the pandemic.

"The Swedish authorities have been slow all the time. Instead of being proactive, they've run after the virus, and the virus has been able to spread too much before they take action."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sweden-wrong-herd-immunity-says-23014969

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...does-that-mean-for-the-rest-of-us/ar-BB1b9kTd

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hinking-left-country-exposed-second-wave.html

 

[bulkbiker]

womdering if they use real data in their models.

Only the best allegedly...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...id-crisis-spring-BBC-documentary-reveals.html

 

[Max68]

Only the best allegedly...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...id-crisis-spring-BBC-documentary-reveals.html

That's certainly pretty damning if proved. I think most governments have made a hash of it, some less than others, and some more than others including our own. Unless you are running a country that has no Covid cases and no Covid deaths you could always have done more.

I was watching a very sad documentary clip the other day where the indigenous tribes of the Amazon are even being hit hard by this virus and these poor people have very little or no immunity at all with such viruses, but it does show how far reaching and complicated this virus is.

I'm loathed to defend the government but in many ways they were stuck between a rock and a hard place on who and what to believe as no pandemic of this scale has been in any of our lifetimes. Back in March I certainly didn't hear too many people scoff at any possible predictions of say 500,000 deaths because back then who knew for certain? If the government had ignored the models that predicted that "worse case" scenario and let business run as usual then would people have accepted those 500,000 deaths? No of course they wouldn't have and they would now have been damning the government for "not listening to the science". Now because that worst case scenario so far hasn't come to pass we seem to be damming the government for "listening to the science" when in many ways I guess we should be relieved that those worst case death scenarios so far haven't come true. Alas what do you do in the face of any potential disaster? Do you plan for worst case scenario or just hope for the best?

 

[hankjam]

Only the best allegedly...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...id-crisis-spring-BBC-documentary-reveals.html

I've spent my working life in science.

"Following the science" is only worth a hollow laugh...

Part of the fun in science for me, was/is seeing leaders in respective fields rip into each other, sometimes not so subtlety.

 

[Tannith]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

The second most common location reported by those who tested positive for Covid-19 were secondary schools, followed by primary schools, and then hospitals, and then care homes.
9,789 common locations were reported:

· Supermarket - 18.3%

· Secondary school - 12.7%

· Primary school - 10.1%

· Hospital - 3.6%

· Care home - 2.8%

· College - 2.4%

· Warehouse - 2.2%

· Nursery preschool - 1.8%

· Pub or bar - 1.6%

· Hospitality - 1.5%

· University - 1.4%

· Manufacture engineering - 1.4%

· Household fewer than five - 1.2%

· General practice - 1.1%

· Gym - 1.1%

· Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...mpaign=coronabriefing_newsletter&ccid=4509336

 

[NicoleC1971]

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425
Re the 'science' and politics if people find the BMJ a credible source.

 

[hankjam]

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425
Re the 'science' and politics if people find the BMJ a credible source.

and what did you think about the article?

 

[NicoleC1971]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

The second most common location reported by those who tested positive for Covid-19 were secondary schools, followed by primary schools, and then hospitals, and then care homes.
9,789 common locations were reported:

· Supermarket - 18.3%

· Secondary school - 12.7%

· Primary school - 10.1%

· Hospital - 3.6%

· Care home - 2.8%

· College - 2.4%

· Warehouse - 2.2%

· Nursery preschool - 1.8%

· Pub or bar - 1.6%

· Hospitality - 1.5%

· University - 1.4%

· Manufacture engineering - 1.4%

· Household fewer than five - 1.2%

· General practice - 1.1%

· Gym - 1.1%

· Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

Tbh I am not sure how this helps as it doesn't seem to identify from who it was caught just correlates a positive pcr test with the place you are at most frequently.
I think the fact that supermarkets workers did not die in any greater numbers than other working age demographics despite mingling maskless with the great unwashed public for 9 hours a day (until July) is more illustrative. The same goes for teachers too.
ONS survey post peak of the pandemic has the details:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...w-of-coronavirus-related-deaths-by-occupation
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...mpaign=coronabriefing_newsletter&ccid=4509336


Edited by moderator for clarity

 

[lucylocket61]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

The second most common location reported by those who tested positive for Covid-19 were secondary schools, followed by primary schools, and then hospitals, and then care homes.
9,789 common locations were reported:

· Supermarket - 18.3%

· Secondary school - 12.7%

· Primary school - 10.1%

· Hospital - 3.6%

· Care home - 2.8%

· College - 2.4%

· Warehouse - 2.2%

· Nursery preschool - 1.8%

· Pub or bar - 1.6%

· Hospitality - 1.5%

· University - 1.4%

· Manufacture engineering - 1.4%

· Household fewer than five - 1.2%

· General practice - 1.1%

· Gym - 1.1%

· Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...mpaign=coronabriefing_newsletter&ccid=4509336

those figures sound reasonable, given that most of us have to shop at supermarkets, especially during lockdowns. Also given the places where people are likely to be most during working and school hours. Not rocket science though.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

The second most common location reported by those who tested positive for Covid-19 were secondary schools, followed by primary schools, and then hospitals, and then care homes.
9,789 common locations were reported:

· Supermarket - 18.3%

· Secondary school - 12.7%

· Primary school - 10.1%

· Hospital - 3.6%

· Care home - 2.8%

· College - 2.4%

· Warehouse - 2.2%

· Nursery preschool - 1.8%

· Pub or bar - 1.6%

· Hospitality - 1.5%

· University - 1.4%

· Manufacture engineering - 1.4%

· Household fewer than five - 1.2%

· General practice - 1.1%

· Gym - 1.1%

· Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...mpaign=coronabriefing_newsletter&ccid=4509336

I cannot for the life of me see how test and trace picked up all those in supermarkets, unless they also used data from the app, and that is very inconclusive, or it only relates to staff members. The app starts to record as soon as you scan it and continues to work until midnight or when the establishment closes if sooner than midnight. The person who had the virus could well have been in the shop hours before or after you arrived. You may only have been there 2 minutes then left. The test and trace relies on the positive person divulging those they have been in contract with - no-one else. They probably have no idea who they "met" for more than 15 minutes in a supermarket. It just does not ring true to me.

 

[JaneWorlock]

I am a staff nurse in a nursing home. I was allowed to shield the first time around as my workplace couldn't guarantee my safety and my GP's advice was if you couldn't work from home then your employer had to guarantee your safety which they obviously couldn't at that time. It was a great worry as at one stage it looked like I might not even be able to get statatory sick pay as the GP surgeries were not allowed to write sick certificates for people who needed to shield and the 111 line only had options if you had to isolate or to care for a child. However my work signed up to the furlough scheme and so that was a great relief. This time however I have been told that with the testing (now weekly) and wearing of masks permanently my employer is able to protect my safety. However I am a T1 Diabetic and in my mid 50's and so I am scared of what will happen if Covid comes to my home. I worry about residents and staff but am also scared for myself. I feel so guilty, as a nurse I want to be able to care for others which I do but but I am really scared for myself. I have been told should it happen then I will not be expected to work on that floor but if the nursing floor it will be difficult and I will feel really guilty. My employer are being good in their infection control methods etc and I wish I was more relaxed but every time I go to work I am scared as I go in and so relieved when I get in and there are no cases. It is nice to see here that I am not the only person in a caring profession to be scared for their safety, Thank you kindly.

 

[UK T1]

Hi I work for an independent privately run SEN College and at first they were all ok with me working from home which I did from 23rd March until September where I started back 2 days a week and working from home the other 3 after we’d had an ofsted visit I was told that I had to work onsite 5 days a week which I complied with as I need the job. However, since this second lockdown I’m beginning to wish that I’d stood my ground as a T1 Diabetic and refused to come back at all as there is no social distancing with students aged 16 - 25 or some of the staff it’s ridiculous some are just not taking it seriously enough for my liking but I’m not sure where I stand with requesting to work from home? Any advice would be gratefully received Thanks

Hi, I would recommend chatting to your diabetes team/consultant. Explain the conditions at work and see what they suggest. It was my consultant and GP agreed I should shield, I believe this is largely as distancing wasn't happening at my work place (pupils have no expectation to distance, and some SEND pupils might not be able to). Since then I've had 'legal' protection I guess, as I've been classed as Clinically Extremely Vulnerable and had the official letters saying I should not attend work.

Seconding other comments, you should have a risk assessment, and mine for returning in Sept included strict 2m distance from other pupils and staff eventhough others weren't doing that. Everyone was really supportive and though I got some reactions as though I was being over the top, I was able to hide behind the fact that my risk assessment said it so it had to be followed.

 

[JRT]

I am a staff nurse in a nursing home. I was allowed to shield the first time around as my workplace couldn't guarantee my safety and my GP's advice was if you couldn't work from home then your employer had to guarantee your safety which they obviously couldn't at that time. It was a great worry as at one stage it looked like I might not even be able to get statatory sick pay as the GP surgeries were not allowed to write sick certificates for people who needed to shield and the 111 line only had options if you had to isolate or to care for a child. However my work signed up to the furlough scheme and so that was a great relief. This time however I have been told that with the testing (now weekly) and wearing of masks permanently my employer is able to protect my safety. However I am a T1 Diabetic and in my mid 50's and so I am scared of what will happen if Covid comes to my home. I worry about residents and staff but am also scared for myself. I feel so guilty, as a nurse I want to be able to care for others which I do but but I am really scared for myself. I have been told should it happen then I will not be expected to work on that floor but if the nursing floor it will be difficult and I will feel really guilty. My employer are being good in their infection control methods etc and I wish I was more relaxed but every time I go to work I am scared as I go in and so relieved when I get in and there are no cases. It is nice to see here that I am not the only person in a caring profession to be scared for their safety, Thank you kindly.

Firstly thankyou for the job you are doing! I worked in a care home,well I still do officially. My care home lost nearly half its residents to Covid. I felt guilty because I wasnt there but the only small consolation was that there were at least trained nurses there who could make the residents as comfortable as possible.
I have no answers but just wanted to acknowledge your fear.
My care home is changing beyond recognition. It's no longer a nursing home and only has about 10 residents. The staff apart from a handful are different. I received notification of a CQC inspection today. It wasnt a full inspection just one to check on items failed in March. Considering changes made its safer but not as glowing as I would have imagined.
As I'm sure many people will comment or think no workplace can be guaranteed covid safe.
There is however something very different about working in care,education etc than to working in an office.
You are totally reliant on the good practices of others both in and out of work.
My workplace is now much smaller,barely a floor. The staff are regular and PPE available (at the moment)and staff are tested weekly.
My daughter also works in a care home. They too have good practices, staff tested weekly. They have had residents with covid but it hasn't spread. Staff tested positive but there were problems with the test.
I think that's the issue for me. If you are "lucky"there may be some warning that infection is in the building. Unfortunately you may have been working in that environment for days before you know.
I think it also depends on where you live. My area was until the last few months one of the safest. Infections are now remaining quite high. No one really knows what will happen over the next few months.
So yes,I totally understand how you feel. We hopefully are in a better position in care homes than in March. The uncertainty about personal risk is awful,at least with flu you feel you might have a fighting chance. It's also hard when your career is focused on supporting and helping others. I still feel guilty about not being there when my residents most needed me. Then and now the only resolution I have is that staff were there who were young and not vulnerable to the virus. Good luck and I hope it all stays safe for you.

 

[Max68]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

The second most common location reported by those who tested positive for Covid-19 were secondary schools, followed by primary schools, and then hospitals, and then care homes.
9,789 common locations were reported:

· Supermarket - 18.3%

· Secondary school - 12.7%

· Primary school - 10.1%

· Hospital - 3.6%

· Care home - 2.8%

· College - 2.4%

· Warehouse - 2.2%

· Nursery preschool - 1.8%

· Pub or bar - 1.6%

· Hospitality - 1.5%

· University - 1.4%

· Manufacture engineering - 1.4%

· Household fewer than five - 1.2%

· General practice - 1.1%

· Gym - 1.1%

· Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...mpaign=coronabriefing_newsletter&ccid=4509336

I'm wondering if Supermarkets should read "shops" in general as in my opinion that would make more sense, considering "other shops" aren't even on the list.

For instance Post Offices tend to have very long queues, at least where I live, and when I walked past a Greggs the other day I couldn't believe that the queue was right out of the door, with some in the queue not wearing masks. Maybe sausage rolls are the new Vitamin D!!

Many shops are a lot smaller than supermarkets. Charity shops and local clothes shops are very small and cramped compared to those in bigger towns so I suspect it's harder to social distance. Mind you I haven't been into my local branch of Next for ages so not sure on the policy these days regarding trying something on in a changing room for instance.

Reassuring to see though that dentists and opticians are not on the list as yet as that is where any social distancing is impossible.

Would certainly be intrigued to see any figures if there are any from workmen entering a home like plumbers, electricians, gas engineers etc.

 

[JRT]

I'm wondering if Supermarkets should read "shops" in general as in my opinion that would make more sense, considering "other shops" aren't even on the list.

For instance Post Offices tend to have very long queues, at least where I live, and when I walked past a Greggs the other day I couldn't believe that the queue was right out of the door, with some in the queue not wearing masks. Maybe sausage rolls are the new Vitamin D!!

Many shops are a lot smaller than supermarkets. Charity shops and local clothes shops are very small and cramped compared to those in bigger towns so I suspect it's harder to social distance. Mind you I haven't been into my local branch of Next for ages so not sure on the policy these days regarding trying something on in a changing room for instance.

Reassuring to see though that dentists and opticians are not on the list as yet as that is where any social distancing is impossible.

Would certainly be intrigued to see any figures if there are any from workmen entering a home like plumbers, electricians, gas engineers etc.

Sausage rolls as new vitamin D made me giggle!
My boiler broke last week and so had to call in British Gas. Very Covid safe from start to finish,wore gloves and mask. Kept rooms ventilated but in separate rooms anyway so felt safe.

 

[JRT]

I'm wondering if Supermarkets should read "shops" in general as in my opinion that would make more sense, considering "other shops" aren't even on the list.

For instance Post Offices tend to have very long queues, at least where I live, and when I walked past a Greggs the other day I couldn't believe that the queue was right out of the door, with some in the queue not wearing masks. Maybe sausage rolls are the new Vitamin D!!

Many shops are a lot smaller than supermarkets. Charity shops and local clothes shops are very small and cramped compared to those in bigger towns so I suspect it's harder to social distance. Mind you I haven't been into my local branch of Next for ages so not sure on the policy these days regarding trying something on in a changing room for instance.

Reassuring to see though that dentists and opticians are not on the list as yet as that is where any social distancing is impossible.

Would certainly be intrigued to see any figures if there are any from workmen entering a home like plumbers, electricians, gas engineers etc.

From point of view of workmen I had an issue just before the first lockdown with a radiator leak. It was interesting as when made appointment had to say if had felt unwell recently etc. This didnt happen this time. Maybe we are more on board with how to minimise risk. The plumber in March didnt wear a mask. I have noticed that since infections increased all supermarket delivery drivers and Amazon drivers wear masks. During the summer although they all socially distanced there were a few that didnt.

 

[Max68]

From point of view of workmen I had an issue just before the first lockdown with a radiator leak. It was interesting as when made appointment had to say if had felt unwell recently etc. This didnt happen this time. Maybe we are more on board with how to minimise risk. The plumber in March didnt wear a mask. I have noticed that since infections increased all supermarket delivery drivers and Amazon drivers wear masks. During the summer although they all socially distanced there were a few that didnt.

Yeah I had the same with a plumbing issue a few months ago and the guy was very safe. Couple of weeks ago my boiler engineer, who I know, turned up for the annual service and he wasn't wearing a mask and it was quite awkward. I stood on one side of the room whilst he was on the other with the boiler.

I must confess in a supermarket now I don't use a basket. I take more bags than I need and then use one of my bags as a basket and transfer from one to another at the till. No one has pulled me up on it as yet!