CT scan (calcium heart scan)

[Brunneria]

@Tophat1900

Yeah, my relief was humungous.
Not that I expected to keel over with an imminent heart attack, being a pre-menopausal woman, and so on. But I didn't expect zero. No way. Although looking at the up to date info on the subject, it turns out I have been doing most of the right things, fairly consistently, for several years. Phew!

@BrianTheElder

I did some googling for places that offer the test. There are surprisingly few of them, and none within 80 miles of home. The closest one was in a BUPA hospital with a quoted price of £500.
Other places seemed similar prices.
Which seemed a bit steep.

So I took the easy route and asked @bulkbiker where he had gone for his, and he said 'Rivers Hospital, Herts, £225 a year ago'
I checked, and they are still offering the same service at the same price.
I got 4 other quotes but no one else came close.
In the end, we had 2 tests, an overnight stay, a nearly 300 mile round trip and the dogs lodged at a dog sitter for 24 hrs, all for less than the price of one test elsewhere.

Oh, and as a final amusing detail, the hospital parking was FREE!!!

 

[Tophat1900]

@Tophat1900

Yeah, my relief was humungous.
Not that I expected to keel over with an imminent heart attack, being a pre-menopausal woman, and so on. But I didn't expect zero. No way. Although looking at the up to date info on the subject, it turns out I have been doing most of the right things, fairly consistently, for several years. Phew!

I've been following the low carb approach for the last 7 or 8 yrs and more intensely over the last 4, so I'm also curious to see where I stand on risk. So, your result is encouraging. It would at least give me a result to compare future results with.

 

[bulkbiker]

For full disclosure my score was 40 which after 30 years of boozing, smoking (since I was 14 for 30 years) and being obese for years too I thought was quite good.

 

[bulkbiker]

Also when I was at the PHC conference last year and at the end of Ivor Cummins presentation discussion turned to CAC scans in the UK and mine was the cheapest of anyone's who was there (and quite a few people came over and asked me about it).
For anyone interested this is their website
https://www.rivershospital.co.uk/treatments/ct-calcium-scoring
You can self refer so no need to bother your GP either.

 

[BrianTheElder]

Also when I was at the PHC conference last year and at the end of Ivor Cummins presentation discussion turned to CAC scans in the UK and mine was the cheapest of anyone's who was there (and quite a few people came over and asked me about it).
For anyone interested this is their website
https://www.rivershospital.co.uk/treatments/ct-calcium-scoring
You can self refer so no need to bother your GP either.

Thanks @bulkbiker I see from their website that scans are still recommended at a min of 5 year intervals. I hope I can still remember the details in 4 years' time.

 

[wiflib]

Also when I was at the PHC conference last year and at the end of Ivor Cummins presentation discussion turned to CAC scans in the UK and mine was the cheapest of anyone's who was there (and quite a few people came over and asked me about it).
For anyone interested this is their website
https://www.rivershospital.co.uk/treatments/ct-calcium-scoring
You can self refer so no need to bother your GP either.

I’ve suggested to Sam that maybe he could secure a discount for delegates at this years PHEC conference, among other things.

 

[bulkbiker]

I’ve suggested to Sam that maybe he could secure a discount for delegates at this years PHEC conference, among other things.

Great idea...

 

[Tannith]

@Tophat1900

Yeah, my relief was humungous.
Not that I expected to keel over with an imminent heart attack, being a pre-menopausal woman, and so on. But I didn't expect zero. No way. Although looking at the up to date info on the subject, it turns out I have been doing most of the right things, fairly consistently, for several years. Phew!

@BrianTheElder

I did some googling for places that offer the test. There are surprisingly few of them, and none within 80 miles of home. The closest one was in a BUPA hospital with a quoted price of £500.
Other places seemed similar prices.
Which seemed a bit steep.

So I took the easy route and asked @bulkbiker where he had gone for his, and he said 'Rivers Hospital, Herts, £225 a year ago'
I checked, and they are still offering the same service at the same price.
I got 4 other quotes but no one else came close.
In the end, we had 2 tests, an overnight stay, a nearly 300 mile round trip and the dogs lodged at a dog sitter for 24 hrs, all for less than the price of one test elsewhere.

Oh, and as a final amusing detail, the hospital parking was FREE!!!

Suppose you have one done and get a bad result. There is nothing you can do to reverse calcification in the arteries is there? You could try to ensure that it didn't get any worse but how? Increase your cholesterol level? Avoid fruit? Avoid other fructose? Is there anything else you can do?

 

[bulkbiker]

Suppose you have one done and get a bad result. There is nothing you can do to reverse calcification in the arteries is there? You could try to ensure that it didn't get any worse but how? Increase your cholesterol level? Avoid fruit? Avoid other fructose? Is there anything else you can do?

There is a bit of cutting edge research that vitamins K and B may help although obviously it will take a while to see the results. The main aim if you have a high score is to get it checked regularly to ensure itd oesn't worsen. if you don't know then you can't monitor it.

 

[Brunneria]

Suppose you have one done and get a bad result. There is nothing you can do to reverse calcification in the arteries is there? You could try to ensure that it didn't get any worse but how? Increase your cholesterol level? Avoid fruit? Avoid other fructose? Is there anything else you can do?

Yes, as B.B. says. There is little evidence we can lower/ reverse the calcification once it is there (though I have seen mention of one study that is testing that with high doses of Vit K2)

But the main goal seems to be to halt the progression.

If you have a look at the second Ivor Cummins video in my second post on the thread he lists the steps that are now thought to help the most, and briefly discusses the ones which are less important.

Personally, my takeaway info on this is
- keep insulin levels as low as poss (low carb, fasting, exercise)
- keep infections and inflammation as low as possible (rapid treatment, good nutrition, low insulin, avoid food intolerances and minimise autoimmune reactions where possible)
- help body handle its calcium intake properly, so that it doesn’t deposit that calcium in the wrong place (a balance of vits D3, K2, C and magnesium and maybe B1)
- get omega 3 and 6 intake balanced (eat saturated and monounsaturated fats rather than polyunsaturated, and supplement with omega3 if necessary. I am using krill oil)
- get CT scans every 5 years or so to see whether these steps are working and if my ct score is steady or rising.
- and if it rises to a level where the doc gets concerned, then assess their suggestions on meds and operations, etc.

I am also quite sure that some of the beneficial effects of doing these things is psychological. For me, anyway.

My father in law had a massive by pass op in his mid 60s. My family has seen heart disease in the last 3 generations. Just knowing that we (Mr B and myself) are taking preventative steps with a chance of halting this Beast in its tracks, is very reassuring. Plus, the results of the scans seem to have lent us both new motivation - at least in part because of what we have learned during the process.

Hope that helps.

Edited for typos

 

[Tannith]

Yes, as B.B. says. There is little evidence we can lower/ reverse the calcification once it is there (though I have seen mention of one study that is testing that with high doses of Vit K2)

But the main goal seems to be to halt the progression.

If you have a look at the second Ivor Cummins video in my second post on the thread he lists the steps that are now thought to help the most, and briefly discusses the ones which are less important.

Personally, my takeaway info on this is
- keep insulin levels as low as poss (low carb, fasting, exercise)
- keep infections and inflammation as low as possible (rapid treatment, good nutrition, low insulin, avoid food intolerances and minimise autoimmune reactions where possible)
- help body handle its calcium intake properly, so that it doesn’t deposit that calcium in the wrong place (a balance of vits D3, K2, C and magnesium and maybe B1)
- get omega 3 and 6 intake balanced (eat saturated and monounsaturated fats rather than polyunsaturated, and supplement with omega3 if necessary. I am using krill oil)
- get CT scans every 5 years or so to see whether these steps are working and if my ct score is steady or rising.
- and if it rises to a level where the doc gets concerned, then assess their suggestions on meds and operations, etc.

I am also quite sure that some of the beneficial effects of doing these things is psychological. For me, anyway.

My father in law had a massive by pass op in his mid 60s. My family has seen heart disease in the last 3 generations. Just knowing that we (Mr B and myself) are taking preventative steps with a chance of halting this Beast in its tracks, is very reassuring. Plus, the results of the scans seem to have lent us both new motivation - at least in part because of what we have learned during the process.

Hope that helps.
Thank you. Do you live in a hard water area? ( with calcium in the water)
Edited for typos

So if like me you can't afford the test, or have no car so can't get there, why not pretend you have had it, and do all the right things anyway? A pot of multivitamins/minerals will take care of all the calcium/magnesium; vit d and C etc, and a sensible diet and exercise will take care of the rest.

 

[Brunneria]

So if like me you can't afford the test, or have no car so can't get there, why not pretend you have had it, and do all the right things anyway? A pot of multivitamins/minerals will take care of all the calcium/magnesium; vit d and C etc, and a sensible diet and exercise will take care of the rest.

Sorry @Tannith I missed your post til now.

You asked why have the scan?
Well, I answered that in detail in my first couple of posts.
But there is another factor that I didn't mention, and that I am only now considering in light of a thread that has been running the last couple of days about the benefits (and risks) of 'going it alone' and making personal decisions about health and healthcare.

I think the calcium scan is very rarely offered on the NHS, and I think that my personal health issues (PCOS, prolactinoma, gluten intolerant, psoriasis, T2/RH) all make me a rather non-typical patient. Such variables mean the standard NHS assessment for heart health is pointless. Actually, I think that since the Qrisk scores are calculated on things like postcode, cholesterol and diabetes, it is a waste of time for most of us - but even more so for me. The Qrisk doesn't consider important details such as cholesterol ratios, insulin resistance levels or whether the diabetes is controlled. Clearly these things are fundamental, yet not factored in.

Also, most docs are still focused on cholesterol and sat fat as being a driver of heart disease. Which means that any advice I get from a doc on my heart health is likely to be misinformed and out of date.

It has been exceedingly interesting to read the modern research pointing to inflammation, antibiotic use and insulin resistance having far more influence on heart disease than cholesterol. I didn't know this until I started reading up in preparation for the test.

I could easily have trundled through the rest of my life unaware of this - and if I was unaware, then I wouldn't now be taking specific, targeted, balanced nutrients to help my body avoid heart disease - and no, a pot of cheap, generic, largely synthetic, multivits is NOT going to cut it. Combined with what you are calling a 'sensible diet' that will do exactly what it does for everyone, which is to leave them at continued risk of heart disease. We know this from the heart disease stats in the Western world, alongside the 'sensible diet' we are all supposed to follow nowadays, since it is packed full of insulinogenic carbs and factors which contribute to inflammation (processed carbs, alcohol, MSG, artificial sweeteners, omega 6 oils, sugar, to name but a few).

edited for typos

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

There is nothing you can do to reverse calcification in the arteries is there?

If you google reverse calcification there certainly seems to be some evidence that it's not all gloom and doom. Some of the videos are interesting but like most things one needs to get corroborating information from several different sources.

 

[lindisfel]

Company patients who are sent to a well known private health company doctors get calcium scans in their MOT.

It's money constraints in the NHS.

Not many people know that the Health Care Assistants at surgeries who do bloods, blood pressure and check INR's get paid abysmally right down to minimum wage levels.

And that millionaire toffy nosed prat Tory doesn't want us to pay any more to the health service.
D.

Sorry @Tannith I missed your post til now.

You asked why have the scan?
Well, I answered that in detail in my first couple of posts.
But there is another factor that I didn't mention, and that I am only now considering in light of a thread that has been running the last couple of days about the benefits (and risks) of 'going it alone' and making personal decisions about health and healthcare.

I think the calcium scan is very rarely offered on the NHS, and I think that my personal health issues (PCOS, prolactinoma, gluten intolerant, psoriasis, T2/RH) all make me a rather non-typical patient. Such variables mean the standard NHS assessment for heart health is pointless. Actually, I think that since the Qrisk scores are calculated on things like postcode, cholesterol and diabetes, it is a waste of time for most of us - but even more so for me. The Qrisk doesn't consider important details such as cholesterol ratios, insulin resistance levels or whether the diabetes is controlled. Clearly these things are fundamental, yet not factored in.

Also, most docs are still focused on cholesterol and sat fat as being a driver of heart disease. Which means that any advice I get from a doc on my heart health is likely to be misinformed and out of date.

It has been exceedingly interesting to read the modern research pointing to inflammation, antibiotic use and insulin resistance having far more influence on heart disease than cholesterol. I didn't know this until I started reading up in preparation for the test.

I could easily have trundled through the rest of my life unaware of this - and if I was unaware, then I wouldn't now be taking specific, targeted, balanced nutrients to help my body avoid heart disease - and no, a pot of cheap, generic, largely synthetic, multivits is NOT going to cut it. Combined with what you are calling a 'sensible diet' that will do exactly what it does for everyone, which is to leave them at continued risk of heart disease. We know this from the heart disease stats in the Western world, alongside the 'sensible diet' we are all supposed to follow nowadays, since it is packed full of insulinogenic carbs and factors which contribute to inflammation (processed carbs, alcohol, MSG, artificial sweeteners, omega 6 oils, sugar, to name but a few).

edited for typos

 

[bulkbiker]

Company patients who are sent to well known private health company doctors get calcium scans in their MOT.

Really? I never had one when I was having my private health MOT's when working in financial markets..
I doubt most would get them as they are slightly risky in terms of radiation exposure. A risk I was quite happy to take but I doubt they are done as a matter of course (unless of course I wasn't considered important enough).
I know that each US President gets one although the results so far as I know are never published.

 

[JohnEGreen]

And that millionaire toffy nosed prat Tory doesn't want us to pay any more to the health service.

Which one there are so many.

 

[lindisfel]

As a professor of physics told me about my concerns about depleted uranium dust!
You would get more radiation sitting on a Lake District hill side!

No knowledge of financial markets those fat cats can pay for their own scans!

Really? I never had one when I was having my private health MOT's when working in financial markets..
I doubt most would get them as they are slightly risky in terms of radiation exposure. A risk I was quite happy to take but I doubt they are done as a matter of course (unless of course I wasn't considered important enough).
I know that each US President gets one although the results so far as I know are never published.

 

[ickihun]

My cardiologist said I was discharged as he no longer needed to monitor my heart health. He rates my 19 as a low risk.
No mention of my obesity but I was encouraged to exercise. After telling invasive cardio angiogram cardiologist that I have scatica and pinched disc he ask me to keep moving/active as much as possible. Mobility has inhibited my activity plans. I had to cancel gym membership as I could not move without total agony.
Heavy painkillers later... I walk as much as possible and swim/stretch as much as possible.
I bet my 19 is higher already!
Mind u slim people can have heart attacks. Carbs are the old medicine for diabetes so I'm sure it's related to higher risk for diabetics. Surely!

 

[lindisfel]

There must be a cut off age for calcium scans if one gets to be a certain age without a stroke or heart attack?
Any ideas?
D.

 

[ickihun]

There must be a cut off age for calcium scans if one gets to be a certain age without a stroke or heart attack?
Any ideas?
D.

I'm sure the nhs will have some restriction but private clinics won't say no, no doubt.
Its scary that many young people are walking around like a time bomb. Generics do hold most of the key and then lifestyle.