Cut out carbs for good?

[PatsyB]

well said brunneria...Never thought i would get Diabetes but one of my younger brothers has it and has had it a long time I then got it and now I find my older brother has it ....none were overweight but on other medications which could have contributed ....

 

[Daphne917]

Well, at least according to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease or other medical info sites, it is so. I do not think it is a sweeping statement. Do not want to argue, I already made another statement - objective is to try and stay hale and healthy!

Do you not think that, as your parents and siblings have T2, that it maybe genetic? I object to being told that I chose to have diabetes as with a grandfather, mother and one sibling with it the possibility of it coming my way was alway there. Ironically enough my sister who is the biggest of all of us is the only one without some health problem as we also have arthritis, celiac and asthma in the family. I also have thyroid and other problems with my metabolism which, over the years have not helped. You're lucky in that you have access to the internet to be able go know how to, hopefully, prevent the onset of D however I, wrongly it now appears, trusted the health professionals when they told me to eat a healthy low fat, high carb diet.

 

[Brunneria]

That's a very good point @Daphne917

It is absurd to tell a diabetic to sort out their lifestyle when they have been following lifestyle advice handed out by medical professions!

 

[AndBreathe]

Well, at least according to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease or other medical info sites, it is so. I do not think it is a sweeping statement. Do not want to argue, I already made another statement - objective is to try and stay hale and healthy!

If you consider T2 to be a lifestyle disease, does that mean Ceoliac is too, because sufferers choose to eat glute, until diagnosed? Or, when I had a widespread poly-arthritis which miraculously disappeared when I gave up citrus and tomatoes for a while?

That isn't my belief, and it's perhaps not the very best example.

Whilst wiki is a useful tool, with lots of lovely information on it, as a contributor led site, there are some howlers on there too.

 

[mekalu2k4]

Well, great discussion. I think I am able to ignite the right mantle!
First of all, - I am NO medical professional; I am NO expert either. In fact I am not that educated - work as aircraft maintenance engineer - worked all over the world. My job is not physically demanding, though I stand most part of the day out in the tarmac.

I am simply going by research in Australia where a lot of research is done specifically on reversing T2D http://www.diabetesvic.org.au/type-2-diabetes . I believe those folks are ahead of everyone in T2D reversal and their efforts directly propelled and funded by Australian Govt. I spent 8 years in Brisbane and had to closely work with one of their medics, who's world is prevention of T2D. If you see their website - yes, it is lifestyle. Most medics say so, in first few sentences of the talk. According to livestrong http://www.livestrong.com/article/291408-list-of-diseases-caused-by-poor-nutrition/ yes, it can be prevented by changing the 'life style'. Well, I may be wrong (still) - I have no problem in taking that. BTW I don't work for any of these organizations or websites.

Being an Indian I do know about trends of raising T2D; where nobody knows or cares about anything. Literally most folks may not get diagnosed in time. But the point is alarmingly raising T2D cases in 20-40years age group. The factors - high carb diet (the sub of this thread), too much rice intake, then environmental, life style (again I go?), increased intake of processed foods, colas, cokes etc. Same trends and reasons with China (at least in Beijing where lived 4 good years). Very much familiar with 'Okinawa island' and their diet. I fully agree with that practice; but that diet has no focus on T2D. When I was there, I loved that diet and that is it; after that back to whatever available.

My problem is - the information and experience that I have on T2D; info says - 'lifestyle (that can be changed) '; experience says 'T2D family (genetics) can't be changed'. I am the only member of our family who stayed outside; lived a different life (rest are sedentary and got T2D during early 30s of their age). So I am very fearful and trying very hard to stay ahead of T2D, am a divorcee, with limited finances and need to work more years to live on respectable terms. Have seen guys who could reverse or manage T2D. But really never came across plenty examples of 'prevent' (not talking about published case studies).

This points begs me to ascertain the facts -
1. Low carb or restricted carb diet will help T2D patients or not?
2. Low carb or restricted carb diet will help preventing T2D? - this is really what I am looking for
3. What else needs to be done to prevent T2D ? for folks in high risk group (like me - a genuine T2D family, getting older etc)

 

[vit90]

I think those who object to the lifestyle reference are over-reacting. I can't see that there was any intention to criticise. In my case I accept it was a lifestyle choice but I am not being self-critical; I chose to accept the advice of the day that a low fat/'good' carbs diet was best and I think we now all agree that advice was (is) badly flawed. I also accept I didn't do enough exercise after I got married and so I put on a lot of weight (some 15kg ten years into marriage). It's possible the weight gain was down to inactivity but likely that the low fat diet was just as much to blame. I can also blame my genes. Let's not all get caught up in the semantics; I think we are all fundamentally of one mind here.

 

[hankjam]

Well, great discussion. I think I am able to ignite the right mantle!
First of all, - I am NO medical professional; I am NO expert either. In fact I am not that educated - work as aircraft maintenance engineer - worked all over the world. My job is not physically demanding, though I stand most part of the day out in the tarmac.

<snipped>

It is a wonder that it is described as a life style choice... it really does not credit the power of food manufacturers and retailers and supine responses of all governments...

personally I'm still really trying to understand what happened... I am the first in my family going way back... I've always been fit, balanced diet and never too overweight... and bingo. Do I think it will be reversed, not for a moment, I just hope to control it and keep my toes for as long as possible.

 

[vit90]

It is a wonder that it is described as a life style choice... it really does not credit the power of food manufacturers and retailers and supine responses of all governments...

personally I'm still really trying to understand what happened... I am the first in my family going way back... I've always been fit, balanced diet and never too overweight... and bingo. Do I think it will be reversed, not for a moment, I just hope to control it and keep my toes for as long as possible.

According to your sig you have lost 23kg??? (or is this something to do with sarcasm...?)

 

[hankjam]

According to your sig you have lost 23kg??? (or is this something to do with sarcasm...?)

Good spot. Indeed not, I am actually a shell of what I was... but most of my weight was thighs and shoulders... and I've probably lost more than I should.... which I am struggling with.

 

[vit90]

Good spot. Indeed not, I am actually a shell of what I was... but most of my weight was thighs and shoulders... and I've probably lost more than I should.... which I am struggling with.

Well I consider myself physically skinny now in appearance but I guess (indeed hope) there is still some visceral fat in there to be rid of. Richard Doughty of newspaper articles/Newcastle Diet, was not overweight when diagnosed and he says he never was, but losing just a few pounds made a big difference.

 

[Spiker]

If we assume that T2 is "lifestyle reversible" (yes in some cases, unknown if it is in all cases), it still does not follow that it is "lifestyle caused".

In fact it's pretty clear that it cannot possibly be caused solely by lifestyle, since the lifestyle that is claimed to cause it is followed by the great majority of the population in Western and Westernising populations.

I think a consensus view of the aetiology of T2 would be that is an interaction between some genetic factors, and following a "lifestyle" which is essentially the normal, default lifestyle for our culture.

 

[donnellysdogs]

As a T1 I don't see T2's as just lifestyle.

For the increase in cancer, diabetes, even colds I do see food as our problem.

People that lived through rationing are now experiecing longer living. The stats coming out now are stating that life expectancy in the following generations is reducing.. So this is for the population as a whole... Not just blaming lifestyle for T2's....

There is something vastly wrong in our food chain. Our veg and fruit has hugely less vitamins than in 1918, grain products are cheap and in everything...

What the heck happened to eating just properly with meat n veg and yes, effectively rationing food.

The average family throw out £60 of food a month!! We mever throw out anything... Never. So why are people buying too much in the 1st place?

Then there's cars... The lack of walking, the fumes etc...and the alchohol and ciggies etc..

T2 is not a lifestyle problem.... It's a lifestyle problem for the whole of the population.

Every non diabetic person I know just thinks medicine is inevitable at some point in their lives and expect the NHS just to provide it.

Sorry for rant but I just look around at kids that parents can't cook and live on takeaways etc and boy do I feel sorry for the human race as a whole.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi nosher8355

Any chance this article you've mentioned is available online? I used to be very athletic (training up to 4 hours a day) & whilst I was never a big 'carb loader' as such I have often wondered if my training regime didn't somehow lead to my blood sugar issues.

cheers,
safi

When I get chance, as working a lot of hours at the moment, I will track it down, somewhere in a college paper from the U.S. I believe, have read a lot of them.

.

 

[Safi]

Thanks @nosher8355 I'd appreciate that.

Don't work too hard

safi

 

[mekalu2k4]

T2 is not a lifestyle problem.... It's a lifestyle problem for the whole of the population.

Well said! Not sure why you wrote that particular sentence, but it is the fact.
Take a look at this. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/01/health/pacific-islands-obesity/

It can be seen that, this article is about 'the whole population' and indeed on 'changing food pattern', and of course 'carb loading' to an extent. My take is a whole lot of Sodium is consumed in Pacific besides a lot of carbs/ free sugars - that forms a deadly combination.

It is sad, but it is how life in Pacific over the years.

 

[AndBreathe]

I think those who object to the lifestyle reference are over-reacting. I can't see that there was any intention to criticise. In my case I accept it was a lifestyle choice but I am not being self-critical; I chose to accept the advice of the day that a low fat/'good' carbs diet was best and I think we now all agree that advice was (is) badly flawed. I also accept I didn't do enough exercise after I got married and so I put on a lot of weight (some 15kg ten years into marriage). It's possible the weight gain was down to inactivity but likely that the low fat diet was just as much to blame. I can also blame my genes. Let's not all get caught up in the semantics; I think we are all fundamentally of one mind here.

I think where things smart a bit is when the lifestyle choice remark is made in isolation of any other factors; thus suggesting the person making the remark expects the T2 to have an overly good relationship with Mars bars, cream cakes, syrup sponge, chips, Fizzy drinks and pizza. Some might have done, but where any of my own lifestyle issues come into play would be a great relationship with fresh fruit, low fat yoghurt, a period of significant stress and carrying a few extra pounds (not obese, just better covered than I am now!).

Making that sort of unqualified generalised statement isn't helpful. I'm not suggesting the individual who made the remark on here meant it that way.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Well said! Not sure why you wrote that particular sentence, but it is the fact.
Take a look at this. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/01/health/pacific-islands-obesity/

It can be seen that, this article is about 'the whole population' and indeed on 'changing food pattern', and of course 'carb loading' to an extent. My take is a whole lot of Sodium is consumed in Pacific besides a lot of carbs/ free sugars - that forms a deadly combination.

It is sad, but it is how life in Pacific over the years.

I just look around in supermarkets, the kids walking down roads always with sweets and full on energy drinks, crisps n cakes...i go meetings where Weightwatchers are having to organise cooking skills for younger parents. I just think I am lucky that I have diabetes and watched my health for last 30+ years.

Only eat non manufactured, proper food and I just think its dreadful that so many ready meals, pizzas and takeaways are a stable diet for a lot of people.

I actually feel very lucky that diabetes caused me to think about my health.

 

[mekalu2k4]

I just look around in supermarkets, the kids walking down roads always with sweets and full on energy drinks, crisps n cakes.........watched my health for last 30+ years.

Only eat non manufactured, proper food and I just think its dreadful that so many ready meals, pizzas and takeaways are a stable diet for a lot of people.

In every developed or developing country - supermarkets just the same as wrote. That is order of the day ( or life style). The CNN article clearly states that people in pacific over the years have changed their style of life [I am trying hard to avoid using the word 'life style' - as I was hounded] and now more or less became sedentary. This article came out just in time, thanks to CNN.

Re other factors: yes, like pregnancy, genes etc. But a majority of T2D is more of insulin resistance; and that can be changed by known methods.

 

[merlindine]

I am convinced that a high-carb diet, no matter how 'good' the carbs are, is to be avoided and can be attributed to a major portion of the blame for me becoming Type 2 diabetic. The question I am interested in hearing everyone's views on is, after have hopefully been able to control our condition - maybe even achieve remission after something like the Newcastle Diet, should carbs be subsequently avoided as much as possible so we can achieve long term ketosis or is the more conventional view that we should avoid sugary carbs and eat a moderate amount of starchy carbs as well as moderate portions of fruit?

And does acceptable carb consumption correlate with one's activity?

I ask these questions because what I have read actually suggests carbs are possibly not needed in our diet and at worst a major factor in all sorts of disorders, not just diabetes.

What do you think?

Yes cutting down on carbs have helped me hold my auger levels better. When I behave myself and stay out of chocolate and such. I get my carbs from fruits and veggies. I eat nothing that comes in a box I eat flat bread only for a wrap
Kind of Atkins type diet. And gym on my off days. Works so far. Just got over a few days of bingeing No idea why. Good luck it's always changing it seems.

 

[mogzilian]

Would you think I need to supplement? I do have lashing of extra virgin oil dressing and up to a full avocado and 8 olives a day now!! So I could try kippers but I could not face yellow coloured ones as they just look artificial

Got to admit I haven't heard of kril oil.

I've just been on another thread and recommended this:
https://nutricur.com/shop/arthritis/pure-red-krill-oil-mega-omega-3/
Pure krill oil, 500mg and 60 caps in the pot... someone was using krill to lower cholesterol and it lowered their BG too... bonus!

Thread here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/krill-oil.52366/