Cutting Out Cream And Butter On A Keto Diet??!

[pdmjoker]

(Apologies if this has already been cited ...)

WARNING: This post contains language such as "dietician" from the start, which some people may find highly offensive...

This BBC news page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42264838

is entitled: Top five celeb diets to avoid in 2018, according to dieticians

One of the five diets under scrutiny is Keto. How better to discredit the Ketogenic diet than to associate it with 'celebs'? (I had once hoped for better journalism from the BBC...) It seems the whole premise is that no-one with half a brain or any medical knowledge would contemplate going Keto. Anyone calling it a 'fad diet' makes exactly the same implication...

If that doesn't put you off the Keto diet, they quote Sian Porter from the British Dietetic Association (BDA), who said "The sinister thing here is people saying it can cure cancer and things like that - it absolutely cannot!"

(Heard of PET scans to detect and investigate cancer? From the NHS website page on PET scans: "For example, a concentration of FDG in the body's tissues can help identify cancerous cells because cancer cells use glucose at a much faster rate than normal cells." where FDG means fluorodeoxyglucose and is similar to naturally occurring glucose. Depriving cancer cells of glucose can be an effective addition to conventional cancer treatment, according to the dietary heretic Dr Jason Fung.)

Apparently, Sian Porter also said by not eating carbohydrates, you avoid eating the calorie-laden things that generally accompany them: "If you're cutting out carbs, such as pasta, you're cutting out creamy sauce. If you're cutting out bread, you're cutting out butter. If you're cutting out biscuits, you're cutting out sugar."

(Isn't sugar a carb??! If you're cutting out carbs, aren't you ... cutting out sugar?)

Question: Who out there doing Keto, and who isn't intolerant of dairy, cuts out butter and cream? Anyone? No? Thought not...

Shouldn't someone from the BDA, the professional association for UK dietitians, actually know what a Keto diet is, or at least understand the basics?

It's sad that the incorrect dietary advice causing the needless suffering of so many millions worldwide is purely caused by the financial aspirations, vested interests and professional pride of a few people. (I'm tempted to twist a Churchill quote here, but I'll spare you...)

Perhaps the scale of the human cost of this global 'scandal' will only be eclipsed by that of Global Warming, which is so commercially inconvenient and irrelevant to short-sighted policy makers that otherwise sensible people refuse to accept the evidence.

Sorry, I didn't know I'd be getting on my soap box... I've climbed down again now...

 

[Krystyna23040]

I absolutely agree with your post. So the diet that reversed my diabetic retinopathy, macular oedema and neuropathy and put my diabetes into remission is just a fad diet and I should go back to the diet that made me ill in the first place because it is a much healthier diet. What utter nonsense - shame on the BBC for such shoddy journalism. That also castigated the eminent cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra for promoting the Pioppi diet. This article made me so angry. How sad if someone reading it is discouraged from cutting the carbs.

 

[zand]

Excellent post!

I have done LCHF since before diagnosis. The last 21 days I have dropped my carb level and have gone keto. I have lost 13 pounds thanks to my lovely ketometer.

To answer your question...I have a mild cow's dairy intolerance. This means that when I eat dairy my cholesterol level goes up because my clever body is protecting me from the inflammation due to the intolerance. Whilst on keto I shall be having butter on my veggies and cream in my coffee to fill me up so that I don't go hungry. If the intolerance was more than mild I would just use other fats.

You are right people don't understand keto. It isn't a prescriptive diet as such, you can eat what you want as long as you stay below say 20g carbs a day. My own limit seems to be around 30g so I have a bit of leeway if I make a mistake in my calculations. Also people assume that because keto is so good for weight loss that it is low calorie. It isn't and as such is much more sustainable than low cal diets and does less damage to the metabolism.

My only regret is that I didn't buy a meter and do keto years ago.

 

[DCUKMod]

Excellent post!

I have done LCHF since before diagnosis. The last 21 days I have dropped my carb level and have gone keto. I have lost 13 pounds thanks to my lovely ketometer.

To answer your question...I have a mild cow's dairy intolerance. This means that when I eat dairy my cholesterol level goes up because my clever body is protecting me from the inflammation due to the intolerance. Whilst on keto I shall be having butter on my veggies and cream in my coffee to fill me up so that I don't go hungry. If the intolerance was more than mild I would just use other fats.

You are right people don't understand keto. It isn't a prescriptive diet as such, you can eat what you want as long as you stay below say 20g carbs a day. My own limit seems to be around 30g so I have a bit of leeway if I make a mistake in my calculations. Also people assume that because keto is so good for weight loss that it is low calorie. It isn't and as such is much more sustainable than low cal diets and does less damage to the metabolism.

My only regret is that I didn't buy a meter and do keto years ago.

Wow Zand - That's an astonishing weight loss for you! Please don't take that remark as being patronising. It isn't. I'm recognising you've had some real struggles in the past to get even modest weight loss going.

Fingers crossed for you that it'll continue as it has started.

 

[zand]

Wow Zand - That's an astonishing weight loss for you! Please don't take that remark as being patronising. It isn't. I'm recognising you've had some real struggles in the past to get even modest weight loss going.

Fingers crossed for you that it'll continue as it has started.

Thank you. Yes it is astonishing and I only had to reduce my carb intake a further 30g or so from my usual level to achieve this. I think, like others I always associated keto with eating lots of meat - and I love my veggies, so I never tried to go that bit lower carb.

It helped that I had low carbed (albeit it on and off at times) for a few years before, so I knew the traps I could fall into and the definite 'don't do's'. Having counselling has also helped me to sort out my issues with food and depression.

Although I regained some of the weight I lost when initially following LCHF, around 2 and a half stones of that never went back on, so it's good to start at a lower level than before and still be 'fresh and not diet weary'. I thought I couldn't keep up keto whilst on hols, but it was fairly easy - I knew that the only thing I liked to eat out and that was low enough carb to be keto was cheeseburger and salad (no bun, no fries). I did manage 2 vegan dark choc ice-creams too, hoping that 'vegan' and 'dark choc' meant it was lower carb, and since it had no adverse effect on my ketone levels I will keep that as my very occasional treat.

I am kicking myself for not buying a ketometer years ago though. Thanks @bulkbiker for you help, advice and support in this. I get up mornings excited ready to weigh myself and measure ketones and FBGs now lol. It's a bit of a downer when none of the readings have improved, but that doesn't often happen.

 

[lindisfel]

Pleased your getting sorted Zand,
Would you tell me please what Ketometer your using some seem somewhat costly?
Thanks
Derek

Excellent post!

I have done LCHF since before diagnosis. The last 21 days I have dropped my carb level and have gone keto. I have lost 13 pounds thanks to my lovely ketometer.

To answer your question...I have a mild cow's dairy intolerance. This means that when I eat dairy my cholesterol level goes up because my clever body is protecting me from the inflammation due to the intolerance. Whilst on keto I shall be having butter on my veggies and cream in my coffee to fill me up so that I don't go hungry. If the intolerance was more than mild I would just use other fats.

You are right people don't understand keto. It isn't a prescriptive diet as such, you can eat what you want as long as you stay below say 20g carbs a day. My own limit seems to be around 30g so I have a bit of leeway if I make a mistake in my calculations. Also people assume that because keto is so good for weight loss that it is low calorie. It isn't and as such is much more sustainable than low cal diets and does less damage to the metabolism.

My only regret is that I didn't buy a meter and do keto years ago.

 

[zand]

Pleased your getting sorted Zand,
Would you tell me please what Ketometer your using some seem somewhat costly?
Thanks
Derek

Yes they are costly. The one I use is a Caresens Dual meter from Spirit healthcare. The strips are over a pound each though. I tested a lot the first couple of days to check that I was staying in ketosis the whole time. Since my fasting morning one was always the lowest that's the only one I check now - if that's still reading over 0.3, I am happy (usually it's between 1-2) You need separate strips to test BGs on the same meter. The BG strips are supplied in little pots, but the keto strips are in flatter cardboard packs of 10. Since I have 2 other meters I don't use it for BGs. My ketometer is invaluable for me, I need the reassurance that I am doing the right things even if my scales (temporarily) don't seem to agree. For me it's as important as my pedometer used to be in the days when I was doing more than 10,000 steps daily. I need to know I am getting it right, so it's well worth the money. Others may not need this reassurance though.

 

[Robbity]

I sincerely hope that anyone with enough sense to be researching a suitable alternative to the Eatwell plate to help control their diabetes is NOT going to be looking at what so called "celebs" choose to eat - fad or otherwise - but will make sensible and informed choices.

Personally I believe that anyone who is ignorant enough to imply in public that you only eat cream as a pasta sauce or use bread to put butter on, not only has no concept of a ketogenic diet, but of ANY normal diet, and is spouting a load of rubbish from their nether regions, and so has absolutely no credibility at all. But including such foods in a ketogenic diet is not a requirement, and some people don't - or more importantly can't - for various and genuine reasons, but it doesn't make it less so.

Robbity

 

[lindisfel]

Thanks Zand it is going to be a continuing cost until I guess your diet stabilizes nutritional ketosis.
I am still using sticks but know it's unreliable but I'm usually over one.

I read on a keto forum that these cheap breath test meters for alcohol can be used for ketones on breath, so I have ordered the one they seem to mention and their under £10 on eBay.
The proper ones are c.£200.

When I get mine I'll try it out and let you know. There is no repetitive costs and if it don't work it's no problem at the price, I'll give it to my daughter and son in law who like a 'drink'.
regards
D.

Yes they are costly. The one I use is a Caresens Dual meter from Spirit healthcare. The strips are over a pound each though. I tested a lot the first couple of days to check that I was staying in ketosis the whole time. Since my fasting morning one was always the lowest that's the only one I check now - if that's still reading over 0.3, I am happy (usually it's between 1-2) You need separate strips to test BGs on the same meter. The BG strips are supplied in little pots, but the keto strips are in flatter cardboard packs of 10. Since I have 2 other meters I don't use it for BGs. My ketometer is invaluable for me, I need the reassurance that I am doing the right things even if my scales (temporarily) don't seem to agree. For me it's as important as my pedometer used to be in the days when I was doing more than 10,000 steps daily. I need to know I am getting it right, so it's well worth the money. Others may not need this reassurance though.

 

[lucylocket61]

the myths and general rubbish spouted about keto astonish me.

when i was doing my occasional fasting and eating only once a day, a few weeks ago, I lost 4kg in total. I have had to stop as i have a flare up of another condition, but it proves it works for me. The weight has stayed off.

 

[pdmjoker]

reversed my diabetic retinopathy, macular oedema and neuropathy and put my diabetes into remission

That's a great result! Cutting the junk (carbs) allows the body to naturally heal...

@zand "when I eat dairy my cholesterol level goes up because my clever body is protecting me from the inflammation due to the intolerance." I guess LDL goes up, as it would if you had an infection, say? Some would say cholesterol goes up just because you are eating dairy, but that misinterprets the situation...

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Zand and all,
Got my cheap AT6000 alcohol tester today off eBay.
Needed three triple A's but seems to work fine. I get a reading of .12 consistently which is above the drink driving limit in Aussie land and the meter alarms and tells me not to drive. Obviously this cheap processor can't distinguish between ketones and alcohol. I shall have to find out how the figure I get relates to mmo/l.
Not sure if it just measure acetone on breath or reads all ketone bodies.
Its a cheap indicator anyway which could be calibrated by blood strips and then afterwards it's not £1 per go!
regards
D.

 

[zand]

Hi Zand and all,
Got my cheap AT6000 alcohol tester today off eBay.
Needed three triple A's but seems to work fine. I get a reading of .12 consistently which is above the drink driving limit in Aussie land and the meter alarms and tells me not to drive. Obviously this cheap processor can't distinguish between ketones and alcohol. I shall have to find out how the figure I get relates to mmo/l.
Not sure if it just measure acetone on breath or reads all ketone bodies.
Its a cheap indicator anyway which could be calibrated by blood strips and then afterwards it's not £1 per go!
regards
D.

Well done. I am treating my £1 a day as a luxury, a little present to myself. It gives me a good start to the day when I see ketones and know that what I am doing is working. I think I could manage without it on days when I eat at home, but on days like today when I eat out, then I need to know that I haven't had too much veg at the carvery for instance.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Zand, the 0.12 corresponds to 120 if the driving limit was 0.08 or 80.
On long distance running forum a member calibrated the cheap meter against his blood strips and he reckoned if they multiplied the reading by x40 they get the approximate equivalent. Therefore mine settled at .13 so x40 my reading of equivalent bhob is 5 mmol/L
regards
Derek
Ps dire stories out there of individuals being picked up for drink driving due keytones!

Well done. I am treating my £1 a day as a luxury, a little present to myself. It gives me a good start to the day when I see ketones and know that what I am doing is working. I think I could manage without it on days when I eat at home, but on days like today when I eat out, then I need to know that I haven't had too much veg at the carvery for instance.

 

[zand]

Ps dire stories out there of individuals being picked up for drink driving due keytones!

Hmmm that's something to bear in mind.... I'll make sure I don't have any alcohol at all whilst doing keto.

 

[lindisfel]

Breath meter was rather high according to my reckoning this am, so I checked with my urine strips and was 2.5mmol/L.
Will have to get a blood analyser tester to give me a definitive calibration. Suspect a reading of 0.15 BAC is c.2.5mmol/ L
D.

 

[brassyblonde900]

Thanks Zand it is going to be a continuing cost until I guess your diet stabilizes nutritional ketosis.
I am still using sticks but know it's unreliable but I'm usually over one.

I read on a keto forum that these cheap breath test meters for alcohol can be used for ketones on breath, so I have ordered the one they seem to mention and their under £10 on eBay.
The proper ones are c.£200.

When I get mine I'll try it out and let you know. There is no repetitive costs and if it don't work it's no problem at the price, I'll give it to my daughter and son in law who like a 'drink'.
regards
D.

I know this is an old thread. I have a Glucomen Lx2 meter it can test for both BG and ketones, which the company happily sent out free. (With 10 BG and 5 complimentary ketone strips)
I am an eBay fiend, and score both BG and ketone test strips at good bargains there all the time. I put a cost ceiling of no more than £5 including P&P for each pack of 10 for ketone strips and 50 BG strips and regularly get them for less than that. The last pack of 3 (30) ketone test strips I got, was last week, They were £1 with £2 P&P, per pack of 10, because no body bid, I was the only bidder.
I also stretch them with ketone pee strips. What I do is, I check my ketones with pee strips every morning, and use the meter, mostly for when
I eat new food, do more carb than I should, or change any aspect of my food or exercise. That way I've been able to keep my test costs down. My DN absolutely refuses to prescribe a meter, according to her, I don't need to test because my BG is in the normal range.(Ridiculous reasoning,)As if it got there by accident.

 

[Merrylizard1314]

My glucometer is a Freestyle Optium which can test both glucose and ketones. I have been using a ketogenic diet for about 8 months now, formerly low carb, thanks to informationI gained from this forum.
I am about to try a Libre, but the ketones will have to be tested using strips still.

I have to say that I find that I feel really good when my BGL is around 4-5, although these days it is in the high 3s in the morning, but the endogenous glucose soon adds a point or two. It has taken a while, but luckily I seem to have found what works for me- without having to cut out double cream and butter.
It still amazes me that, without actually understanding what is involved in a keto WOE, "experts" can condemn it as a fad and influence so many people to continue in a lifestyle that is doing harm. Everyone is different, and some have many things to cope with, besides metabolic disorders, and fine-tuning aspects of eating for good health may not be a priority -all the more reason for publication of evidence-based advice on diet , rather than emptyheaded claptrap and health claims on processed food packages.

 

[pdmjoker]

Sister site Diabetes UK has a document:

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/resources-s3/2017-09/low-carb-diets-position-statement-May-2017.pdf

entitled Position statement - Low-carb diets for people with diabetes.

In the document it says:

"Most carbohydrates are broken down into glucose which is an essential fuel for the brain"​

and references a research paper which says "The mammalian brain depends on glucose as its main source of energy." If that were true, then my brain would have stopped shortly after me going Keto!

According to Jason Fung:

"... what they mean, is that the brain requires some glucose to function, but it doesn't require you to eat glucose to function and that's the distinction."
"... the body can actually manufacture glucose and this is a process called gluconeogenesis. So your body has the ability to take fat and produce glucose and that's how it works."​

taken from:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/brain-need-carbohydrates-2

The Diabetes UK document continues:

"Interpreting dietary research is not without disagreements, which is why Diabetes UK
continues to base recommendations on robust evidence rather than opinions."​

and

"The evidence shows that total energy intake is the main predictor of weight loss"​

Hmm...

​