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Daughter just started LCHF - bolus for protein Type1

Thanks for the support and the advice. As I say I'm not a fundamentalist and I agree, when they go to other people's houses they will have to eat different food and cover that with insulin, birthday parties the same. What interests me is the day to day norm (the average). This is what this is about, having good average scores from a young age to lower he chances of complications and the ability to lead a normal life. I know when she sits at school today and unpacks her lunch it will be different to the other children's sandwich,yoghurt, crisp combo. I know which way round the jealousy will be as Freya's packed lunch has a bacon and cheese cupcake, a blueberry muffin, a selection of sliced meats and cheese, carrot sticks, Apple slices and cucumber. Which of these is the better food? I don't go with because it is normal she must be like everyone else. Neither my wife or myself have lived out lives that way and to be honest we live in a rural community with a lot of like minded people.
 
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Her lunch sounds lovely :) I would hope the other children have healthy lunches too - well, some at least (I've seen some awful lunch boxes in my time!)

Your daughter's diet is your choice, but the advice here to check in with her consultant and a dietician is wise. That would be my advice no matter what dietary regime she was following as balancing food and insulin for a growing child is not easy. If you have to push to see an appropriate specialist I have every confidence you will. Your concern for your daughter is obvious :)
 
Penfold_Dad said:
Both sides of this argument are relevant and I'm not easily offended and I'm certainly not a fundementalist and would happily do what is best. Id also like to say that I am an educated person able to deliberate on choices I make and my wife is a health care professional. These choices haven't come easy
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That's reassuring and I'm not a parent myself so it's easy for me to say many of these things when I haven't been in those situations.

Of course, we all believe that you want what is best for your daughter. There is no question about that. However, that can sometimes hinder your judgement.

Sadly, there are many parents of diabetic children who struggle with denial. There are stories of parents affecting their children's growth, not administering insulin, and giving them unusual supplements with the false belief that their child can be "Cured" of diabetes. My first post wasn't an attack at you, but to the parents that can't realize how horrible their decisions really are.

I think about these situations long-term (and again, it's easy because I'm not a parent), but what happens when your daughter goes away to camp and her friends offer her candy? What happens when she becomes a teenager and wants to be normal? Teenage girls can be some of the meanest creatures on earth.

Basically, the question becomes: are you doing everything for your daughter, or are you teaching her to one day make these decisions herself?

Of course, she still only 5 so these situations are a ways away...but they're not that distant in the future.
 
I think I get you but I have to say but whilst she is 5 they have to be our decisions base don her day to day blood levels. if she is brought up to understand her condition and the requirements of her body then I would like to think when offered candy she might say no as it makes her unwell or understand that she will need to at least bolus for it. I'm certainly not going to shield her from this and pretend it doesn't exist and that actions don't have consequences. At the same time she is entitled to normal blood sugars and a healthy physical and emotional life.
 
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I also love that your whole family is doing this together. It is also teaching your other children to have a healthy diet. Why teach a child that sugary foods are part of a regular diet and good for them? If they start avoiding sweets this young they will have less of a chance of feeling like they were missing something. We develop a sweet tooth by eating sweets. Once we stop eating sweets things taste too sweet.
She will be put in situations all her life that she will have to make her own decisions and with a great foundation (like you are giving her) hopefully she will more often than not make the right decisions. Hopefully she will pick up all your good habits and thrive not feeling 'different'. As parents all we can do is guide and guiding through example carries kids a very long way, usually more than we/they realize.
Her lunch looks very nutritious and IMO fruits, veggies, healthy fats and quality proteins have far more nutrition than rice potato or pasta. She is obviously still getting some nutritious healthy carbs and if she can have normal blood sugars this way more power to you.
As a mother of 3 I would not sleep for one second if one of my children were having hypos.
She is very lucky to have such a loving family.
 
Penfold_Dad said:
Hi guys we have just done our first week of LCHF with my five year old daughter (in fact the whole family) and we have been bolusing for protein and carbs. Protein at 50% calculations and we have seen a huge improvement in blood sugars and the low numbers have allowed us to see specifically which food cause spikes as it has become very obvious.

Does anyone have any advice on the protein bolus? Do you calculate it for everything? We hid have a night time hypo last night and we had the fat head pizza for dinner last night which has so much protein it required a huge dose of insulin. I guess this defeats the object but it was nice and if we do it again we will just serve a much smaller portion with more salad.

Any advice from experience would be gratefully received! We are hoping to have a glucose meter for a while which should help with the calculations as we will see the real time info which I am looking forward to

Thanks, Stuart
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Hi Stuart,

What's your analysis of why this night time hypo occurred? Your Post #1 indicates that you think it was due to the large Insulin dose (in turn based on the large amount of Protein in dinner). Is this what you still think?

I'm pondering the specifics of a night time hypo being caused by dinner with lots of Protein and a large Insulin dose . . . if the Insulin dose was large, then I think I would expect the Hypo to have happened very soon after dinner - Insulin acting before the Protein had time to take effect. Did your daughter go to bed very soon after finishing dinner?

Your Post #5 suggests that hypos are happening in general - in that case was it just a coincidence that your daughter had one on the same evening as the fat head pizza?

If it's the latter case, then just for info . . . I struggled for a long time on a Low-Carb diet, and then specifically on the LCHF (Ketogenic) diet, to get Bolus doses right. I couldn't seem to get things in synch, despite adjustments to the timings and split-dosing etc. Things fell beautifully into place for me when I switched to a different Bolus Insulin (at the suggestion of my Doctor at the time). I had been using Humalog, and whatever I tried I couldn't get things correct. I switched to Humulin S and things became VERY much easier - this Insulin has a much flatter profile which more closely mirrors the effects that my LCHF food has in my body.

I've posted this info many times on the forum (sorry, everyone!) but I'd say it's worthwhile for anybody on Low-Carb/LCHF to investigate and/or ask their Doctor about the different Insulins available. They have very different profiles, and there may be one which matches your diet much better than others.

Regards :)
Antony
 
Penfold_Dad said:
Both sides of this argument are relevant and I'm not easily offended and I'm certainly not a fundementalist and would happily do what is best. Id also like to say that I am an educated person able to deliberate on choices I make and my wife is a health care professional. These choices haven't come easy
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If my children became diabetics they would be low carb too. I have never seen anything anywhere to suggest that there are any dangers for children (or anybody) following a low carb diet. Believe me I'm constantly looking. Saying 'there are no studies saying that it is safe' is not an argument against it.

Have a look at this inspirational Aussie mum and her child; http://diabeticalien.blogspot.co.uk/

There are some great recipes there.

To your question; I find that low carb pizza is very difficult to bolus for. That concentration of fat does seem to affect the insulin requirements. Keep in mind too that your daughter's insulin sensitivity throughout the day may well change (I'm far more sensitive to insulin in the evening than I am in the morning for instance) so that could be complicating things further.

I know some people do phased boluses (so split the amount; and have half before and half afterwards) to deal with pizza (even low carb pizza) so you could try that?

As night time hypos are the scary ones I'd probably try and work out what is happening at lunch times over weekends before adding low carb pizza as an evening meal?

It sounds like you are doing a great job however; keep it up.

Best

Dillinger
 
Since the vast majority of HCPs will not recommend a low carb diet for anyone with diabetes, asking the OP to go and see his healthcare team is pretty pointless, since they'll say stop (as they would with any other diabetic). They'll suggest a high carb diet which gets the vast majority of diabetics nowhere and indeed would worsen the control of the OP's child.

Secondly, as far as I'm aware, pasta, chips and other refined carbs aren't essential nutrients for children, so cutting down on them will do no harm. Surely, it's far better to reduce hypo severity, improve control and reduce risk of complications by reducing carb portions.

In other words, poor control is likely to be much worse than a reduction in carbs.

I couldn't begin to imagine how difficult it is to manage a 5 year old's diabetes, so taking steps to improve the quality of life of his daughter should be respected, in my opinion.
 
SamJB said:
Surely, it's far better to reduce hypo severity, improve control and reduce risk of complications by reducing carb portions
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I completely agree

SamJB said:
I couldn't begin to imagine how difficult it is to manage a 5 year old's diabetes, so taking steps to improve the quality of life of his daughter should be respected, in my opinion
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I completely agree again

SamJB said:
Since the vast majority of HCPs will not recommend a low carb diet for anyone with diabetes, asking the OP to go and see his healthcare team is pretty pointless, since they'll say stop (as they would with any other diabetic). They'll suggest a high carb diet which gets the vast majority of diabetics nowhere and indeed would worsen the control of the OP's child.
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and of course I agree here too
 
TorqPenderloin said:
I think about these situations long-term (and again, it's easy because I'm not a parent), but what happens when your daughter goes away to camp and her friends offer her candy? What happens when she becomes a teenager and wants to be normal? Teenage girls can be some of the meanest creatures on earth.
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Mean girls are not worth having as friends anyway so she wont be missing out.
 
SamJB said:
Since the vast majority of HCPs will not recommend a low carb diet for anyone with diabetes, asking the OP to go and see his healthcare team is pretty pointless, since they'll say stop (as they would with any other diabetic). They'll suggest a high carb diet which gets the vast majority of diabetics nowhere and indeed would worsen the control of the OP's child.
.
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HCPs can make recommendations but it's up to the individual if/how they implement them.

It.s not pointless informing a child's paediatrician or other consultant of what diet the child is following. They may not feel able to give their approval - or they may suggest a compromise eg a moderate amount of carbs, but the basic advice that children's growth and general health should be monitored still stands. In addition, some consultants and dieticians are more open than others to working with the patient and their wishes.

There are a number of children who follow a variation of a LCHF to control epilepsy. They are checked and monitored and receive appropriate support. Children with diabetes deserve no less.

Not that I thought anyone here was advocating not consulting a medical professional, of course. But it's important to state that caution for any casual readers of this thread.
 
Most parents who go low carb go high protein for growth rather than massive amounts of fat. The gluconeogenisis that results mean that insulin is needed for protein spikes so they don't tend to lose weight. Growth rate is monitored and tends to be normal.
 
Mrs Vimes said:
Most parents who go low carb go high protein for growth rather than massive amounts of fat. The gluconeogenisis that results mean that insulin is needed for protein spikes so they don't tend to lose weight. Growth rate is monitored and tends to be normal.
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That's fine, but would you not agree that checking a young child's growth and health is sensible, and certainly does no harm?

It's a sensible,precaution when the health of a young child is concerned :)
 
Of course. But going low carb does not mean lack of growth or weight loss. Going low protein does. The hospital monitors this anyway. I know parents who go along, told they are doing a great job, kids on target growth wise but they do not discuss lc as the medical staff will not be happy.
 
I don't think anyone was implying that LCHF stunted growth. Is that something you've read or heard?

Monitoring a child's health and growth is sensible whatever their diet. Advising monitoring doesn't mean anyone's suggesting there'll be problems. It's a precaution and sensible advice.

I've tried a variety of diets throughout my 'diabetic career' and my consultant has always been supportive. It's a shame the parents you refer to haven't had the same experience.
 
Oops sorry Azure, I think it was something Torq might have said. I've only had a quick scan back (I may be apologising to him next.) I totally agree about the monitoring of growth. But what some people who don't think lc is acceptable for kids tend to bring up is a lack of growth. In fact, when they replace carbs with more protein they thrive and grow normally or better.
 
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