Dave Feldman Debunked. Yes or No

[Mbaker]

This "debunking" video came up in my YouTube feed, regarding an interview Dave Feldman had with a Lean Mass Hyper Responder (someone who's LDL goes above the upper reference number on LCHF / Keto style diet, but Trigs, HDL and other markers tend to be good (my understanding)). The LMHR gentleman frankly has good to astonishing numbers in many bio markers (HDL, Trigs, CRP and ridiculous 5.6% body fat (what!)) apart from LDL (if you think this is relevant in his context).

I expected this lady to come up with an excellent critique that would give me "food for thought", ala Bart Kay. Unfortunately most of her criticisms came from a place of defence, I felt. In her shoes I would have watched more Feldman videos to get a feel for his knowledge, I would have definitely watched the actual video on the NHANES dataset to understand how good or bad / relevant it is. What scares me is the proportion of likes to dislikes for her debunking video that in my view was like comparing a Mercedes F1 car (Dave Feldman's facts) to a Trabant (the debunking). Wheres the free thinking fact checking.

My view is that LDL is problematic when oxidised / damaged and possibly if heart disease is already in place; would we say red blood cells are dangerous because some people have sickle cell anaemia. The clinchers for me are CAC testing results I have watched via Ivor Cummins, with respect to LDL, and the observational evidence of incidence of heart disease prior to the changes from circa 1977 - 85' ish, guidelines compared to now.

Here is a link to the interview Dave conducted:

Although not a response to the "debunking" directly Dave provided some answers in a response to another criticism:

What they do they don't realise with this absolute Super Star is that unlike some, he goes where the evidence takes him.

 

[NicoleC1971]

This "debunking" video came up in my YouTube feed, regarding an interview Dave Feldman had with a Lean Mass Hyper Responder (someone who's LDL goes above the upper reference number on LCHF / Keto style diet, but Trigs, HDL and other markers tend to be good (my understanding)). The LMHR gentleman frankly has good to astonishing numbers in many bio markers (HDL, Trigs, CRP and ridiculous 5.6% body fat (what!)) apart from LDL (if you think this is relevant in his context).

I expected this lady to come up with an excellent critique that would give me "food for thought", ala Bart Kay. Unfortunately most of her criticisms came from a place of defence, I felt. In her shoes I would have watched more Feldman videos to get a feel for his knowledge, I would have definitely watched the actual video on the NHANES dataset to understand how good or bad / relevant it is. What scares me is the proportion of likes to dislikes for her debunking video that in my view was like comparing a Mercedes F1 car (Dave Feldman's facts) to a Trabant (the debunking). Wheres the free thinking fact checking.

My view is that LDL is problematic when oxidised / damaged and possibly if heart disease is already in place; would we say red blood cells are dangerous because some people have sickle cell anaemia. The clinchers for me are CAC testing results I have watched via Ivor Cummins, with respect to LDL, and the observational evidence of incidence of heart disease prior to the changes from circa 1977 - 85' ish, guidelines compared to now.

Here is a link to the interview Dave conducted:

Although not a response to the "debunking" directly Dave provided some answers in a response to another criticism:

What they do they don't realise with this absolute Super Star is that unlike some, he goes where the evidence takes him.

Thanks that is a helpful little trio of links. I like the idea that my high ish Ldl (highish hdl and low trigs) make me a LMHR bowever I am not lean though I do exercise a lot!!
Anyway as a type 1 my strategy, in the absence of access to a Calcium scan or LDL particle analysis) is to keep oxidation to a minimum via better glucose control and exercise.
I still do not know if a statin helps people like me with 37 years of damage to my arteries and my doctors clearly cannot offer anything further than a statin.

 

[Caeseji]

This "debunking" video came up in my YouTube feed, regarding an interview Dave Feldman had with a Lean Mass Hyper Responder (someone who's LDL goes above the upper reference number on LCHF / Keto style diet, but Trigs, HDL and other markers tend to be good (my understanding)). The LMHR gentleman frankly has good to astonishing numbers in many bio markers (HDL, Trigs, CRP and ridiculous 5.6% body fat (what!)) apart from LDL (if you think this is relevant in his context).

I expected this lady to come up with an excellent critique that would give me "food for thought", ala Bart Kay. Unfortunately most of her criticisms came from a place of defence, I felt. In her shoes I would have watched more Feldman videos to get a feel for his knowledge, I would have definitely watched the actual video on the NHANES dataset to understand how good or bad / relevant it is. What scares me is the proportion of likes to dislikes for her debunking video that in my view was like comparing a Mercedes F1 car (Dave Feldman's facts) to a Trabant (the debunking). Wheres the free thinking fact checking.

My view is that LDL is problematic when oxidised / damaged and possibly if heart disease is already in place; would we say red blood cells are dangerous because some people have sickle cell anaemia. The clinchers for me are CAC testing results I have watched via Ivor Cummins, with respect to LDL, and the observational evidence of incidence of heart disease prior to the changes from circa 1977 - 85' ish, guidelines compared to now.

Here is a link to the interview Dave conducted:

Although not a response to the "debunking" directly Dave provided some answers in a response to another criticism:

What they do they don't realise with this absolute Super Star is that unlike some, he goes where the evidence takes him.

The thing I love about Dave is that he admits the variables and always evolves his ideas to what the evidence is suggesting. There's no zealotry in place when it comes to him and his data. He admits genetics play a part and that there might not be one good method to everyone which is why I do delight in watching his videos so much. It's ironic when so many accuse the LCHF crowd of being biased and then come out with arguments that suit their own preconceived ideas. I am sure that Dave would LOVE for someone to give him an evidence based rebuttal, if I remember he's always welcomed counter points hasn't he?

 

[Tophat1900]

No

 

[Cocosilk]

This "debunking" video came up in my YouTube feed, regarding an interview Dave Feldman had with a Lean Mass Hyper Responder (someone who's LDL goes above the upper reference number on LCHF / Keto style diet, but Trigs, HDL and other markers tend to be good (my understanding)). The LMHR gentleman frankly has good to astonishing numbers in many bio markers (HDL, Trigs, CRP and ridiculous 5.6% body fat (what!)) apart from LDL (if you think this is relevant in his context).

I expected this lady to come up with an excellent critique that would give me "food for thought", ala Bart Kay. Unfortunately most of her criticisms came from a place of defence, I felt. In her shoes I would have watched more Feldman videos to get a feel for his knowledge, I would have definitely watched the actual video on the NHANES dataset to understand how good or bad / relevant it is. What scares me is the proportion of likes to dislikes for her debunking video that in my view was like comparing a Mercedes F1 car (Dave Feldman's facts) to a Trabant (the debunking). Wheres the free thinking fact checking.

My view is that LDL is problematic when oxidised / damaged and possibly if heart disease is already in place; would we say red blood cells are dangerous because some people have sickle cell anaemia. The clinchers for me are CAC testing results I have watched via Ivor Cummins, with respect to LDL, and the observational evidence of incidence of heart disease prior to the changes from circa 1977 - 85' ish, guidelines compared to now.

Here is a link to the interview Dave conducted:

Although not a response to the "debunking" directly Dave provided some answers in a response to another criticism:

What they do they don't realise with this absolute Super Star is that unlike some, he goes where the evidence takes him.

I'm very happy to see that 2nd video after my doctor told me yesterday that I should start statins... and quit breastfeeding my 8 week old in the process!

 

[NicoleC1971]

I'm very happy to see that 2nd video after my doctor told me yesterday that I should start statins... and quit breastfeeding my 8 week old in the process!

That seems wrong to me! It is not as if you would be at any risk by not starting a statin until you've finished breastfeeding! Even then I'd be sceptical of the benefits.
I wish docs would treat the patient in front of them and not just their cholesterol number!

 

[kitedoc]

With diabetes it is not just oxidation that is a risk, it is glycation - glucose attaching to LDL and that means the very best thing is to keep BSL at non-diabetic levels with little variation. See Fat Emporer podcasts with Dr Paul Mason 1 -> 5 and True Grit TypeOne.
I know of only 2 main ways to do that.

 

[bulkbiker]

if I remember he's always welcomed counter points hasn't he?

He still has an unclaimed $3,000 for someone who can provide him with a study that answers his question..

"And to date, no one has provided a non-drug, non-gene study showing people with high HDL + low triglycerides + high LDL exhibiting high rates of cardiovascular disease."

 

[Resurgam]

On the BMJ open site I found an article about a study of the link between longer life and LDL - analysis of tens of thousands of deaths showed that those with higher LDL tended to live longer.
As life expectancy is not increasing, in some places it is actually reducing, I am quite skeptical about accepted medical practice in the UK at the moment.

 

[bulkbiker]

No

I'll second that..!
What is she on about...?

 

[Guzzler]

The woman is obviously out of her depth.

 

[Member496333]

I got as far as “cholesterol denier” in the first video before giving up. Sorry.

The entire cholesterol orthodoxy is a just a comedy at this point. The 1960’s called, they want their science back.

 

[Mbaker]

Thanks that is a helpful little trio of links. I like the idea that my high ish Ldl (highish hdl and low trigs) make me a LMHR bowever I am not lean though I do exercise a lot!!
Anyway as a type 1 my strategy, in the absence of access to a Calcium scan or LDL particle analysis) is to keep oxidation to a minimum via better glucose control and exercise.
I still do not know if a statin helps people like me with 37 years of damage to my arteries and my doctors clearly cannot offer anything further than a statin.

Somebody else may come along with the exact numbers, but apparently if a stroke or heart attack has already occurred, statins can help you live a few days longer after several years of use, the possible side effects include higher glucose, fatigue and muscle soreness. The only positive I have seen it that statins can lower some inflammation.

 

[Mbaker]

I'm very happy to see that 2nd video after my doctor told me yesterday that I should start statins... and quit breastfeeding my 8 week old in the process!

Here's your choice then man made intervention vs nature. If you are concerned I would ask a general question on the subject to a recognised UK expert such as Dr Trudi Deakin https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Contact. I cannot guarantee she will respond, but given the topic area and how "nice" she is I feel confident she would generalise some information for you. Surely this is too serious a matter involving another formative life for general practice advice (not meant to sound condescending).

 

[Cocosilk]

Here's your choice then man made intervention vs nature. If you are concerned I would ask a general question on the subject to a recognised UK expert such as Dr Trudi Deakin https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Contact. I cannot guarantee she will respond, but given the topic area and how "nice" she is I feel confident she would generalise some information for you. Surely this is too serious a matter involving another formative life for general practice advice (not meant to sound condescending).

Yes, the more I see about the new research on cholesterol, the less worried I am about mine being high. Besides, I feel pretty good eating low carb so it feels counterintuitive to be told I might have a heart attack or stroke in the next 5 years...
But mostly, breastfeeding is one of the greatest joys of motherhood (aside from all of its challenges). I tried natural births and failed 3 times ending in c-sections and I fought through many challenges to succeed at breastfeeding and won. I'm not about to give up on my baby's best chance at being healthy and support the formula industry while also losing the benefits to my own health by not breastfeeding just because some young graduate doctor thinks she knows best.
Don't worry. I'm more inclined to try and show her these links and educate her and hope she'll give me referal for a CIMT scan and maybe a calcium score to get a better picture of my risks if there are any.

 

[Cocosilk]

Did you see the story shared this morning on Dave Feldman's LMHR (Lean Mass Hyper Responder) Facebook page of a young athletic strong and active fellow who was eating keto for 3 years which became carnivore over the last 9 months, and then he had 2 strokes in one day!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/240371826717858?view=permalink&id=487504802004558

 

[kitedoc]

But do we know whether other possible factors like steroid use, high blood pressue and intake of processed meat were ruled out ?

 

[Winnie53]

The coronary aterial calcium score uses radiation. I'd be concerned it would effect the breasts or milk. CIMT uses ultrasound, no radiation, I believe. Perhaps that would be a better choice. It's confusing to me that the doctor doesn't seem to understand how important breastfeeding is for the baby. It made a huge difference for our son.

Ivor Cummins recently interviewed Aseem Malhotra and they talked about these high pressure tactics to get patients started on a statin immediately. Do you have hypertension too or other complicating issues or is it just the high LDL?

I'm old enough now so taking a statin likely would be a mistake. Older women who have higher cholesterol live longer when compared to women of similar age who have lower cholesterol.

 

[Cocosilk]

But do we know whether other possible factors like steroid use, high blood pressue and intake of processed meat were ruled out ?

He does have intermittent high blood pressure and he's in his 50s.

 

[Cocosilk]

The coronary aterial calcium score uses radiation. I'd be concerned it would effect the breasts or milk. CIMT uses ultrasound, no radiation, I believe. Perhaps that would be a better choice. It's confusing to me that the doctor doesn't seem to understand how important breastfeeding is for the baby. It made a huge difference for our son.

Ivor Cummins recently interviewed Aseem Malhotra and they talked about these high pressure tactics to get patients started on a statin immediately. Do you have hypertension too or other complicating issues or is it just the high LDL?

I'm old enough now so taking a statin likely would be a mistake. Older women who have higher cholesterol live longer when compared to women of similar age who have lower cholesterol.

I'm 44 now and have had 3 babies (and 3 c-sections) in less than 5 years. It's since I started having kids that my blood pressure went up during pregnancy.
I used to have 100/60. In pregnancy it would be 130 pr 140/80. At the end of pregnancy and postpartum, probably with anxiety but also preeclampsia the first time I had 170/110 once and 160/90 this most recent postpartum period. About a month ago at the doctor's office it was 119/79. Then last doctor visit she took my blood pressure while she was arguing with me about statins and my BP was 144/83 - stress.. ha ha

I've been getting a lot more frequent heart palpitations since I gave birth this time and I can't work out if it's dehydration and low potassium from eating low carb, or something else. But something's up. I know my body well enough to know when it's complaining. Even if it's anxiety. But I think my anxiety was worse before low carb, which makes me wonder if something else is the cause.
.

The coronary aterial calcium score uses radiation. I'd be concerned it would effect the breasts or milk. CIMT uses ultrasound, no radiation, I believe. Perhaps that would be a better choice. It's confusing to me that the doctor doesn't seem to understand how important breastfeeding is for the baby. It made a huge difference for our son.

Ivor Cummins recently interviewed Aseem Malhotra and they talked about these high pressure tactics to get patients started on a statin immediately. Do you have hypertension too or other complicating issues or is it just the high LDL?

I'm old enough now so taking a statin likely would be a mistake. Older women who have higher cholesterol live longer when compared to women of similar age who have lower cholesterol.