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Dawn phase?

Moggyton

Member
Messages
22
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi, sorry about all the posts lately but im keen to get my diabetes on track. Basically im on a morning shift at the moment so im waking up at 5:30 am. For example i took my bloods when i woke this morning and they were 7.7 which i was fairly happy with. By 6:15 they had risen to 10.8mmol without me eating anything. Is this the dawn phase? Where after 3am your bloods start to rise because of hormones and so on? How could i correct this? Take my lanctus later in the evening? I usually take it around 9pm.
Thanks
 
Altering your basal rate would be dependent upon your day time readings too.

I note you say you ate working AM shift? Do you work AM shift permanently?

Just that if you alternate say with a pm shift it may make your dawn phenomemon change time to when you get up on a later shift.

Personally my hubby currently is meant to work 4 weeks of AM shifts then 4 weeks of PM SHIFTS. I have to have 2 different basal rates set up. However, I can do that because I have a pump and its easy. With MDI it's slightly harder..
 
I do 2 weeks of mornings and 2 weeks of afternoons. I just need a good way of dealing with it.
Thanks
 
Ok.. My reason for stating the obvious with the shifts is because if you get up say at 5am and adjusted your basal to match your levels increasing for your early shift is because when you work late shifts or have lie ins you may go low.

Before recommending any adjustments can I please ask if you have the same effects on your bloods rising just after getting up when you are on pm shifts?

It's no good suggesting you do something now and then finding out this would completely **** you up for your other shift..
 
It seems to be slightly lower when i get up later so i dont know how to adjudt it.
 
Really need to have a day's readings cos changing basal can affect day time rates adversley.

It may just be a change of the time that you do your basal insulin.. Or you may need to split it. Without a full day worth of readings its hard to advise...
 
My readings are a bit all over the place at the minute so im trying to get one right at a time.
 
Hi, sorry about all the posts lately but im keen to get my diabetes on track. Basically im on a morning shift at the moment so im waking up at 5:30 am. For example i took my bloods when i woke this morning and they were 7.7 which i was fairly happy with. By 6:15 they had risen to 10.8mmol without me eating anything. Is this the dawn phase? Where after 3am your bloods start to rise because of hormones and so on? How could i correct this? Take my lanctus later in the evening? I usually take it around 9pm.
Thanks


Hi . . .

My solution is rather extreme, but I just put it out there so you can take it if you want.

Gluconeogenesis is the automatic process where Glycogen (stored in the liver) is converted into Glucose and released into the blood-stream. In a non-Diabetic body, the constant balancing act of releasing Insulin/Glycogen keeps blood-sugar in a narrow band.

In a T1 Diabetic body, we obviously do not have an automatic release of Insulin. We have decided (up to 24 hours ago) what our Basal Insulin will be and already injected it. Gluconeogenesis is very commonly most intense in the morning hours, so much so that this gets its own name - the Dawn Phenomenon. But Gluconeogenesis is an automatic process and it's not always easy to predict or anticipate the timing. Personally, I found that a spike often occurred in the early morning but could happen any time in morning through to late afternoon. Therefore it was difficult for me to manage this using Basal Insulin.

My solution is to remove the fuel that Gluconeogenesis needs. If you reduce the fuel tank in a car down to a smaller volume, you automatically reduce the range of the car. You can keep it in the range that you want.

Excess Carbs (that are not needed for energy right now) and excess Protein (that is not needed for growth and repair right now) are sent to the liver to be stored as Glycogen. After Glycogen stores are full, these inputs will then be stored as Fat in fat cells.

If you reduce consumption of Carbs and Protein down to a suitable level, you give Gluconeogenesis no chance to disturb your levels and ruin your hard work, regardless of sleeping patterns. If there's no fuel in the tank, the car can't go anywhere. **

Of course, this is an extreme solution, but I just put it on this thread because it is something that works very well for me. When I stick to this (Ketogenic) diet, Dawn Phenomenon and other spikes during fasting are non-existent. When I step out of the diet (as I do for a chocolatey Sunday at the end of each fortnight) then levels during the following Monday and Tuesday are pretty unpredictable as Gluconeogenesis suddenly has a fun joyride with a glut of fuel.

** Glycogen is the fuel used for emergency fight-or-flight situations. For that reason, the body always keeps a 'ring-fenced' supply of Glycogen, ready and waiting for any such emergency. (For a T1, a serious Hypo can be an emergency). Reduction of Glycogen so that out-of-control Gluconeogenesis / Dawn Phenomenon is prevented does NOT mean that you have no fight-or-flight emergency store - this stock is kept safe.

Hope it's helpful :)
Antony
 
I do 2 weeks of mornings and 2 weeks of afternoons. I just need a good way of dealing with it.
Thanks

Try injecting and eating upon waking, we get a liver dump soon after waking to give us energy for the day ahead after fasting all night, in my own experience you can pre-empt the bg rise by eating breakfast, try it and see how you get on.
 
As mentioned already, getting something in your stomach will produce digestive juices which in turn will alert the liver that the fast is over and its assistance isn't required......covering that food with insulin is of course also required for us type 1........

I also felt that a split basal dose, if injecting, helped when I took the evening dose right before bed, and then the morning dose before breakfast.........this meant that the evening dose would be at its strongest overnight and there would also be an overlap of the two doses during the morning...

These are just tactics designed to help, but from personal experience, diabetes never behaves the way you hope it should, ever......

:)
 
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