1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Dawn Phenomenon

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by linda_b, May 21, 2017.

  1. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    83
    @Ullrich were you on a low carb diet when you did this? If so did eating the carbs 2 hours before bed impact your ketosis?

    I guess I could experiment with this though. I usually have dinner around 6pm. Which would be low carb. Around 8pm I do exercise, which at the moment is 30 mins of yoga. Then bed at 10:30pm.

    I could try a sip of orange juice perhaps.
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
  2. Ullrich

    Ullrich Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No I don't use a low carb diet.

    It could still be worth a try if you are not eating for 4:30hrs + sleep. I recall reading some advice at the time I was looking for an answer that suggested low GI foods like peanuts or certain green apples could be good before bed as they slowly release a small amount of carbohydrates while you sleep. Oddly enough that didn't really work for me, medium GI 2hrs before sleep matched my insulin curve better, however maybe this could work better for someone on low carb?
     
  3. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Many type2s use none carb foods to do their liver block before bed. It improves their fbg levels by 2mmol/l on average. Low carbers only get improvement after 4wks of low carbing, again on average.
    Many wake on very similiar to their bedtime test result on low carbing with their liver block.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    83
    So a little something (cheese, meat) before bed might help?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thanks @ickihun. Saw you posted on another thread about fbg and your liver block recommendations. I'll read over there
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. spook_kate_

    spook_kate_ Researcher · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Oh gawd that's tough. So sorry
     
  7. spook_kate_

    spook_kate_ Researcher · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    158
    It's so so frustrating, so interesting to see so many others have it. I only started DP or became aware of it about 2-3 yrs ago. I found after low carbing for 3 weeks I woke up with great results. Then I didn't. Then I did. A very royal pain! I find low carb difficult when times are tough/stress/kids/chocolate addicted hubby/falling off the wagon. Just need a kick up the *r $e. I'm going to follow this thread as interested in what other people experience.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #27 spook_kate_, Jun 6, 2017 at 9:57 PM
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  8. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

    Messages:
    13,223
    Likes Received:
    12,473
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I been a lowish carber the best part of my life (53 years!)... doesnt make a blind bit of difference to me whether I have higher at 100g or 20g. Same old 4am increase. Only difference is going to bed late and getting up late.. that just shifts the DP...
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. boppa18

    boppa18 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Also have this problem. I can go to bed with BG at 5 but I know it will increase by +7 or more by morning. I've also recently noticed that taking the dog for his morning walk on an empty stomach will increase my BG by another 2 or 3!
    Don't know if this will help anyone else but I have been experimenting with 90% dark chocolate - currently Lindt Excellence - and I have found that half to 1 square before bed appears to almost eradicate DP! I haven't done a blood test 2hrs after eating the chocolate yet so don't know if it causes higher BG but it certainly seems to stabilise me so I don't have to spend my 1st waking hours trying to get my numbers down.
    Of course, this may not work for anyone else and I'm still experimenting but so far so good.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. gillianwrdl

    gillianwrdl Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Try sleeping with an eye cover when in long daylight environments. Nature probably designed us to lift up the sugar levels to prepare us for the days activity at dawn. Just an idea that clicked as I know light exposure has several effects on the body.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. gillianwrdl

    gillianwrdl Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43

    Something just clicked here regarding locality affecting the liver activity at first light! I would try using an eyeshade to sleep when you are in long daylight environments and see if there is any difference. Probably all our livers, diabetic or not are designed to prepare the body for the day's energy requirements when early work starts were the norm. Perhaps it is just doing what if is designed to do! My rooster has a habit of crowing early and I could be exposed to more light than I would have if not woken up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I have dp throughout my day as well as night. Anytime my body thinks I'm fasting, my liver dumps. I have to eat breakfast are I too increase by 4mmol by the time I eat. Even on an excellent basal called Toujeo300. That is why I say basal doesn't make any difference for me. Novarapid and food resolves my liver dump but on lchf fatty protein worked nicely too.
    My consultant doesn't want me on fatty diets before bariatric surgery. He's hoping to more than half my insulin injection needs.
     
  13. becca59

    becca59 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,072
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Tried this last night. First in range reading in weeks!! Let's hope it isn't a fluke.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. smag3

    smag3 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I get DP every morning and have failed to find a solution. But when I am on holiday I do not get it! In fact I wake very low and have to adjust for that by lowering my Lantus when on hols! Went to Sicily for 2 weeks in May and no DP, been to Portugal and no DP! Why? Maybe the solution is to move to a warmer country......
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Lord Midas

    Lord Midas Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Could it be that you eat different foods when away? I'd imagine the diet in Sicily is somewhat different than what you would have at home. Could you replicate what you eat when away as a comparison?
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook