"Defatizing............"

Sid,
This (Newcastle Study) diet alone may not work but as Mao Zedong said "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step." so this may be that first step!

Bowell,
Has that "copper " got a scouser accent? :lol:

FergusCrawford said:

Sid,
This (Newcastle Study) diet alone may not work but as Mao Zedong said "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step." so this may be that first step!

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Very Zen Fergus, but after the hundred yard dash it is he who can still take those small steps that wins :wink:

Sid Bonkers said:

I lost 4 stone and came off insulin AND have kept that weight off all without resorting to questionable diets, I simply (simply LOL) reduced my carb intake and drastically reduced the amount of all food groups that I ate. A major lifestyle change in a nutshell, not a quick fix.

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Surely this what any diet is about.

benedict said:

Thank you for taking the trouble to post.

No problem, I thought it was worthy of a mention bearing in mind the warnings from the parties involved in the study.

I think if this thread were to be deleted, one could argue that Viv's modified Atkins diet thread, amongst others, should also be removed because it also goes against conventional thinking and could be deemed dangerous long term by certain people.

Viv's Atkins thread isn't what's been debated here, however I take it that from now on any diet is allowed on the forum regardless of members concerns or that of the medical authorities.

A lot of thought has gone into the decisions that have been made. The forum has a responsibility for its members but people also have a responsibility for themselves.

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The forum does have a responsibility for it's members and this is why I brought this to your attention, however given your response I am to take it that his has been a collective decision by everyone at Admin to let these threads stand despite the possible risks and consequences for its members, as DCUK have professional HCP advising them on the content of the community pages it would be interesting to know if they have been consulted in this matter.

Thanks for your input!

Nigel

Of course it is Josie but being Zen again its like the Tortoise and the Hare story, loosing weight is not all about speed, slower is better in the long run.

noblehead said:

The members here who are 'Defatizing' by their own means have no idea if their diet is successful or not other than their weight loss, without close supervision and MRI scans to determine any fat reduction in their liver and pancreas they will never know if they have achieved what the study participants achieved.

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The lead author of the study stated that the same results would be achieved through any kind of weight loss plan. I assume that he takes it as a given that reducing one's weight to optimum BMI will also restore the fat content of the liver and pancreas to normal. I am inclined to agree with him. When I have reached my ideal weight I'll assume the organs are properly defatized and I'll take an oral glucose tolerance test.

noblehead said:

... as DCUK have professional HCP advising them on the content of the community pages it would be interesting to know if they have been consulted in this matter.

Thanks for your input!

Nigel

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Nigel, do you think that HCPs ought to have input into what board users are allowed to post?

Patch said:

Re: Potentially dangerous - personally, I think that's a bit of scare mongering.

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Well, I think it's quite right that people post warnings from time to time. Certainly if a newly diagnosed person who had not had the time to educate themselves fully went onto this diet with their liver full of metformin, they would faint and quite possibly die. I had a funny turn once at the uni where I teach, and I was only saved by the fact that the nurse's surgery was literally ten yards away. She had the nouse to immediately get me to lie down and she took a BS reading - 50mg, not far from coma. She gave me a candy and sent some of my students to fetch sugary drinks from the shop. I had NO idea metformin could do that to you. All I'd done is skip breakfast and jump up and down excitedly in the classroom for a couple of hours. Needless to say I don't take metformin any more, or any medication for that matter.

Patch said:

BUT - the bashing this plan has got is getting me down.

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Cheer up m8.

Patch said:

Nige said:

As we have new members who come to the forum often desperate, afraid ...

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How patronising do you want to be???

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LMAO

Viv's Atkins thread isn't what's been debated here, however I take it that from now on any diet is allowed on the forum regardless of members concerns or that of the medical authorities.

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Thanks Nigel. In a way yes, but in a way no.

For all we know, there could be news that drinking engine oil helps diabetes. This could be discussed, yes. The difficulty comes in deciding exactly how it is discussed. Sorry if this is a little obtuse but I think it outlines the point I'm trying to make.

The forum itself is not overseen by healthcare professionals. This is a forum for people's views rather than for healthcare information.

Nigel... DID YOU READ THE REPORT?

Do you mean the one where despite all kinds of professional intervention and support, 4 out of 15 participants dropped out from the diet, and only 7 out of the remaining 11 improved to Pre-Diabetic levels (not normal or "cured")... over a very short 12 week follow-up with an average weight-regain of 3kg which is all too common in such drastic calorie restricted diets which tend to slow the BMR? That one? or am I perhaps being too negative? I prefer to say I am being realistic.

It is fine to be positive and enthusiastic about this diet but I see far too much "counting chickens before they are hatched" in these threads.

Despite your taunting posts and threats of "ridicule" for any naysayers Kenny: I wish you no harm and hope you succeed in your efforts to gain better control.

I'd like to see these threads with more realism and less wishful thinking... there is a potential danger of encouraging others to undertake this unproven (there are not yet any long-term results) and potentially dangerous approach without doing their homework first.

Bowell - you're a genius!!!!

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pianoman said:

Do you mean the one where despite all kinds of professional intervention and support, 4 out of 15 participants dropped out from the diet, and only 7 out of the remaining 11 improved to Pre-Diabetic levels (not normal or "cured")... over a very short 12 week follow-up with an average weight-regain of 3kg which is all too common in such drastic calorie restricted diets which tend to slow the BMR? That one? or am I perhaps being too negative? I prefer to say I am being realistic.

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Yes, that's right. The one where one of the participants was interviewed on the golf course saying he felt like he'd won the lottery. That's the one.

pianoman said:

I wish you no harm...

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You'd better not!

pianoman said:

...there is a potential danger of encouraging others to undertake this unproven (there are not yet any long-term results) and potentially dangerous approach without doing their homework first.

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Well we are pioneers, aren't we. We are the guineapigs that you can all have a good laugh at if we fail. I think there's a place for that on this forum. Don't you?

benedict said:

The forum itself is not overseen by healthcare professionals. This is a forum for people's views rather than for healthcare information.

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Oh dear, that's really sad to hear! This forum has never been overseen by HCP's but was always a place you could come to and get great information and sound advice from experienced diabetics. You could always ask a question and know you would get sound up to date information, especially from the previous moderators who went out of their way to help or guide any members.

It seems that the place is now 'dumbing down' and allowing self indulgent posts which as noblehead and others have stated serve little or no purpose. It looks like its becoming more of a 'chat' forum, a bit like the DUK support forum. Nothing of note just pats on the back and self congratulation. Not much of a discussion forum without the good information!

Anybody trying this without medical supervision is a penny short of a shilling in my book.

Well just call me 11p Patch. :lol:

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE around here really cannot grasp exactly what a DISCUSSION FORUM is all about.

Muppets. <Not directed at anyone in particular. Knowhatimean?

The whole problem and more so why the threads should be consigned to the delet button..

The diet that Patch and Kenny are doing isn't the Diet that Dr Taylor used in his research trial and it seems that nither would have matched the criteria for the research trial.. As both aren't newly diganoised diabetics.. They have not slought any medical advise nor are they having any medical supervision concerning their health or wealthfare before or during the diet..

They've actually brought products and are not using them as advised by the manufacter, They have not only decided to ignore basic instructions of how to rehydrate the product, but ignored advise that the product is used to replace 2 meals not all meals in a 24 hour period..

Another problem they do not know whether the replacement meal shakes used in Dr Taylor's trial was a purchased mass manufacturered product, or a customised product made up to indivdiual participants needs and requirements, they actually know very little other than the total calories the diet contained was 600 a day..

So it can only be said that informtion they provide is not only missleading but impossible to validate so could be consituted as being dam right dangerous...

The Admin do have a duty of care, and no bunging a disclaimer onto a post doesn't always carry weight in court

It is one thing to discuss the 600 cal diet, and it's one thing for an indvidual to share their experience on this type of diet, when they are having probably medically supervised in all areas, from how their health care professionals worked out the content of the permitted 600 calories, to how it was medically supperives during the diet and the out comes etc..

After all how many people out there spend hordles of money on 'snack oil' cures for diabetes..

Patch said:

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE around here really cannot grasp exactly what a DISCUSSION FORUM is all about.

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Would that be "a place where taunting, ridicule, sarcasm and thinly-veiled threats are used in an attempt to silence anyone who does not 100% agree with you" :?:

That is a not a discussion I see any value in.

jopar said:

Another problem they do not know whether the replacement meal shakes used in Dr Taylor's trial was a purchased mass manufacturered product, or a customised product made up to indivdiual participants needs and requirements, they actually know very little other than the total calories the diet contained was 600 a day

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If you read the paper, you'll find all this information is explicitly stated.

So how come then Patch and Kenny aren't following it?