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DESMOND COURSE 'T2D CAN'T EVER BE REVERSED'

rom35 said:
Dear Kyambala, the youngest book of the Bible is 2 peter and the oldest is not the “book” but some narrations, fe. The song of Deborah - Jdg 5.

Fundamentalist reading of the Bible is the same error as fundamentalist reading of NHS rules - use your own intellect, get all the information from all sources and make decision :)
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Well done "rom35" for looking up some information. However, The Book of Revelation was not written until between AD 90 and AD 96 (most scholars agree on AD 95) which was nearly 30 years AFTER the death of St. Peter. Most scholars believe that 2 Peter was written between AD 64 and AD 66.

Deborah & Barak lived about 1,000 BC (give or take 50 years) and theBook of Judges was written 1043 BC and 1,004 BC. Because I wasn't around at the time I have to take te word of "most scholars" who weren't around at the time either.

Expressions in the Hebrew language changed over time (just like the English language) so scholars tend to set dates that fit the expressions used at a certain date in history.

The book of JOB uses expressions that were used in the time of Abraham (about 2,000 BC) so they set the date for the Book of Job as being in the time of Abraham. Another complication is that JOB himself was NOT an Hebrew (not a Jew) - he was a Gentile.

You did well in your research. Well done. I suppose it all depends upon which "scholars" you trust.

I love our NHS and rely heavily upon them - but they are NOT perfect - and my BS and Diabetes has been much improved since I rejected NHS advice about Carbs and took the advice of this Forum (they are the "experts") and went Low Carb High Fat. I am still Diabetic but my Insulin usage has dropped from 100 units per day 58 units per day.

My Doctor has told me to vary my DIET and Insulin usage to whatever I feel happy with at any given time. He is happy with my progress regardless of NHS advice.

Have a nice day - the sun is shining.
 
Kyambala said:
Well done "rom35" for looking up some information. However, The Book of Revelation was not written until between AD 90 and AD 96 (most scholars agree on AD 95) which was nearly 30 years AFTER the death of St. Peter. Most scholars believe that 2 Peter was written between AD 64 and AD 66.

Deborah & Barak lived about 1,000 BC (give or take 50 years) and theBook of Judges was written 1043 BC and 1,004 BC. Because I wasn't around at the time I have to take te word of "most scholars" who weren't around at the time either.

Expressions in the Hebrew language changed over time (just like the English language) so scholars tend to set dates that fit the expressions used at a certain date in history.

The book of JOB uses expressions that were used in the time of Abraham (about 2,000 BC) so they set the date for the Book of Job as being in the time of Abraham. Another complication is that JOB himself was NOT an Hebrew (not a Jew) - he was a Gentile.

You did well in your research. Well done. I suppose it all depends upon which "scholars" you trust.

I love our NHS and rely heavily upon them - but they are NOT perfect - and my BS and Diabetes has been much improved since I rejected NHS advice about Carbs and took the advice of this Forum (they are the "experts") and went Low Carb High Fat. I am still Diabetic but my Insulin usage has dropped from 100 units per day 58 units per day.

My Doctor has told me to vary my DIET and Insulin usage to whatever I feel happy with at any given time. He is happy with my progress regardless of NHS advice.

Have a nice day - the sun is shining.
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Why does god never heal amputees?
 
Hi All,

If people wish to discuss Theology, could they please do it on another thread?

We don’t have a Theology subforum, so General Chat would probably be the best place for it.
Or alternatively, take it to Private Message.

Thank you in advance.
 
rab5 said:
are you serious or having a laugh
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Thanks "rab5" - I always try to be serious on this Forum because I believe that many people (Diabetic sufferers) look to this Forum for valuable information on lots of issues. This Forum has been a BIG help to me - and I want to help others in areas where I can - I have been Diabetic Type 2 now for 22 years and have learned very little from the NHS - but this Forum directed me towards LCHF which helped me take control of my Diabetes.
eggs11 said:
Wow bit of of a Freudian slip there - I meant low fat/high carb - not low fact - or did I?!
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Hello "eggs11" - I prefer your earlier post of LOW FACT - I wonder if and Diagetic Nurses EVER read this Forum? There used to be a Doctor who read it and "posted" a couple of years ago and he was looking for personal testimony (facts) about the LCHF diet.

If ANY medical professionals are reading this - PLEASE LET US HAVE YOUR OPINION.

Have a nice day.
 
Brunneria said:
Hi All,

If people wish to discuss Theology, could they please do it on another thread?

We don’t have a Theology subforum, so General Chat would probably be the best place for it.
Or alternatively, take it to Private Message.

Thank you in advance.
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Point taken Brunneria - but we are not discussing Theology - we are just correcting some common mistakes that people make. I like to deal with FACTS - not THEORY - some medical professionals in the NHS only have the THEORY that is written in their Text Book and really need to listen to their patients who ARE Diabetic AND have found that the advice given in this Forum is from people with EXPERIENCE. If we digress into a side issue such as the Bible, Marriage, Politics, etc. it is not that we are trying to change the thread - we are just trying to be helpful and correct errors.

But thanks anyway.
 
Folks, this is your final warning.

Further ‘theological’ discussion will be deleted for being off topic.

Several posts have been now been deleted for inflammatory argument, despite being asked to take the discussion elsewhere.
 
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I have faith in LCHF. and no faith in the Desmond course If you wish to delete that then go ahead.
 
Debandez said:
I wasn't expecting to get much out of my DESMOND course but i actually learned quite a bit and enjoyed it. But one thing that was said was that T2D can't EVER be reversed. They went further than that by saying the media had mistaken remission for reversal. I gave an example of my sister who following a gastric bypass operation REVERSED her T2D. She can basically eat what she wants. Non diabetic results. So it's made me wonder of the people on here that have 'reversed' their T2D are they in remission or actually completely reversed? I wasn't going to argue in the DESMOND course! There were a few things I didn't agree with. Another one being the discussion on fats and which are good and bad for you. They certainly don't advocate LCHF!!! The 3 ladies running the course were non diabetic. The book they were using was years old (they called it their bible and said it was only based on facts).
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One thing for certain is that following their guidance, there is little chance of any remission or reversal...to non-diabetic levels and off medications. What they have is a guide how not to achieve diabetes remission or reversal...

If not they should provide statistics for diabetes reversal or remission for those following their course...
 
kokhongw said:
One thing for certain is that following their guidance, there is little chance of any remission or reversal...to non-diabetic levels and off medications. What they have is a guide how not to achieve diabetes remissino or reversal...
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What absolutely beggers belief is that the majority of HCPs do NOT believe that they should be doing everything they can to at least try to help patients achieve non-diabetic BG levels, as far as that is possible.
 
dbr10 said:
What absolutely beggers belief is that the majority of HCPs do NOT believe that they should be doing everything they can to at least try to help patients achieve non-diabetic BG levels, as far as that is possible.
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Over the years, it has become rather obvious that medication free, normal glycemic/insulin level is never the treatment goals. And is rarely achievable thru current treatment protocols.

Because on failing to normalize glucose levels, they pile on cholesterol, BP, CVD risk factors and a hundred and one other factors that appears to be contradictory and confuses themselves.

I had long decided that I will focus on one issue only and that is to maintain near normal glucose levels without medication and let the other issues, eg weight loss, cholesterol levels, blood pressure, slow healing wounds, frequent urination, dimming eyes, failing memory, insomnia, tingling feets and fingers take care of themselves over time...
 
And here is a study on the success of the DESMOND course...
https://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e2333
Results HbA1c levels at three years had decreased in both groups. After adjusting for baseline and cluster the difference was not significant (difference −0.02, 95% confidence interval −0.22 to 0.17). The groups did not differ for the other biomedical and lifestyle outcomes and drug use. The significant benefits in the intervention group across four out of five health beliefs seen at 12 months were sustained at three years (P<0.01). Depression scores and quality of life did not differ at three years.

Conclusion A single programme for people with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes mellitus showed no difference in biomedical or lifestyle outcomes at three years although there were sustained improvements in some illness beliefs.
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Is there a newer more successful version?
 
It's a pity we can't do a comparison with a similar study of LCHF I don't find the above stats very impressive to be honest.
 
kokhongw said:
One thing for certain is that following their guidance, there is little chance of any remission or reversal...to non-diabetic levels and off medications. What they have is a guide how not to achieve diabetes remission or reversal...

If not they should provide statistics for diabetes reversal or remission for those following their course...
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That's exactly what I'm going to ask my DN for when I see her next week. Can't wait to hear what she has to say!!!
 
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