Diabetics are carb intolerant

[Ashlie]

So basically what your saying is if we don't eat carbs then we also don't need to take our back ground insulin that keeps us alive? The only insulin out of the 2 that our body purely needs to survive?

 

[AndBreathe]

Ashlie - it is extremely unlikely I will have a hypo requiring intervention. I am T2, no medication and with non-diabetic level HbA1cs the twice I have been tested since diagnosis.

I have regular blood readings in the 3s, both pre and post prandially. On those levels I am fine, and if my body thinks I'm a bit low my liver steps in and contributes to the picture. I reckon that happens at 3.4 and raises me to around 4.

Therefore, I would conclude that if I were to experience a funny turn today , the last hing I would need would be some jelly babies. I might enjoy them, but probably not need then.

The term diabetes is an umbrella term for a wide range of conditions and severities.

Going back to my analogy of the upset person, it's unimportant if it's someone else. It was an example of when somebody doesn't really need to know all the details, and would probably be uncomfortable in the face of the disclosure.

 

[lilyfleur]

I think that's a very black and white poll question with many grey answers, and people are picking the answer closest to how they feel. For example, I feel as if I'm pretty intolerant to carbs, in the sense that intolerance is a scale, you may be able to tolerate a small amount or not be able to tolerate any at all. In my case, if I eat more than about 35g of carbs in one sitting, I feel ****** for the rest of the day. And that's with the correct insulin. I therefore might be inclined to choose yes to the poll, but the wording of it isn't very good because it says "JUST carb intolerant". Of course type ones aren't JUST intolerant- if they were they wouldn't need basal insulin. It seems we've all interpreted the question in different ways.
Also, it is an incredibly unfair comment to say most type 2s caused their illness- even if they do have poor diet, are overweight and don't exercise enough etc (which not all do), it doesn't necessarily mean they should've known better and changed their habits. There are plenty of people out there who have appalling diets, are lazy and overweight and yet don't have diabetes, so to imply you deserve it if you aren't looking after yourself is harsh at best.

 

[zand]

I'm sorry but this has completely angered me!! If it was as simple as being intolerant then we would just have to cut it out not take life saving medication!! It's not like being lactose intolerant is it!! Background insulin keeps us alive, we do not produce it, even if we didn't eat carbs n didn't have to take quick acting we would still need background because our pancreas has destroyed itself! T2 not so much, most T2 are diabetic due to poor lifestyle, poor diet, no exercise and being over weight, they still produce insulin just not enough to go round their bodies, thays why they take a tablet it's like a top up of insulin, so yes exercising n eating right may improve T2 but to say a type 1 is "carb intolerant" is ludicrous, even when I go on a low carb diet my levels are still high! Plus we need carbs to survive!! Diabetes causes so many complications in life n health because once one organ has started attacking itself others can too, ketones are dangerous n even having the flu can cause them not just eating carbs, using lactose intolerance as an example that doesn't cause health problems n doesn't threaten your life every day! Silly silly people agreeing with this!

I am one of those much maligned fat people who have brought this on myself. So obviously my opinion won't count for anything. I would like to say one or two of you do seem to be a tad self-righteous. I was like that too when I was slim. What I would like to see is all type 2's who are in the normal weight range at diagnosis to be tested for visceral fat. We all know that visceral fat is what causes the problem. I would like to see how many 'skinny' people are 'skinny on the inside' too. I am sure this would help us understand diabetes even more. There, I have had my say, now I'll go and crawl back under my boulder, because of course a rock isn't big enough.

 

[Scandichic]

I am one of those much maligned fat people who have brought this on myself. So obviously my opinion won't count for anything. I would like to say one or two of you do seem to be a tad self-righteous. I was like that too when I was slim. What I would like to see is all type 2's who are in the normal weight range at diagnosis to be tested for visceral fat. We all know that visceral fat is what causes the problem. I would like to see how many 'skinny' people are 'skinny on the inside' too. I am sure this would help us understand diabetes even more. There, I have had my say, now I'll go and crawl back under my boulder, because of course a rock isn't big enough.

One of the downsides of forums (in the case of this forum, very few) is that people sometimes write things in the heat of the moment which they might not say to someone's face. My husband quoted the lovely Billy Connelly. "Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. After that, you can say what you want as he's a mile away and you've got his shoes! "

 

[cold ethyl]

I am one of those much maligned fat people who have brought this on myself. So obviously my opinion won't count for anything. I would like to say one or two of you do seem to be a tad self-righteous. I was like that too when I was slim. What I would like to see is all type 2's who are in the normal weight range at diagnosis to be tested for visceral fat. We all know that visceral fat is what causes the problem. I would like to see how many 'skinny' people are 'skinny on the inside' too. I am sure this would help us understand diabetes even more. There, I have had my say, now I'll go and crawl back under my boulder, because of course a rock isn't big enough.

A great point. I am overweight and have a family history of T2 so will be beating myself latter with a big pointy stick as I should have known better ;-) I recently read Robert Lustig's book about the evils of sugar and he made just this point about seeing metabolic syndrome in seemingly normal weight people which suggests that there is something going on over and above weight as a crude measure. I see lots of slim young girls when I am out who have what I would call a pot belly or muffin top and I do wonder if this is a consequence of our fast food and carb heavy diet- they all buy the ice drinks in the coffee shop and say no to the cream, but seem unaware that the thickener is just about pure glucose.

 

[mrman]

The only reason us Type 1s need carbs is as an antidote to when we have overdosed on injected insulin. This is to do with treatment, not to do with the condition itself . (Hypos are "iatrogenic"). We need carbs the way a nerve gas victim needs atropine - another antidote that is highly poisonous and can easily kill if it is misused. Otherwise, unless we are dealing with an overdose of injected insulin, we don't need carbs. In all other situations we are carb intolerant and can only ingest carbs with any degree of safety by injecting this drug, insulin, and dealing with the risks that injecting the drug entails.

Sorry, but having the correct dose of background insulin for a normal day even with no carbs can lead to hypos should not enough notice be given to know to reduce basal insulin. Not just overdosing. Alot easier on a pump,but,can happen.

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[mrman]

Would like to add I need carbs. I insulate for approx 200 carbs a day,but due to activities at least every other day I have another 100~150 extra carbs, which I do not need to insulate qa for, (not all in one go, spread throughout the day) all and depending on activity a reduced temp basal which is already only 8 units. Whats the alternatives, less carbs, less insulin, more weight loss, but, with none spare to lose, as my body is lacking a major growth hormone ,insulin. If I were to eat more carbs than my body needed, therefore injecting more than I needed I would probably end up overweight, but then I would reduce carbs and insulin to correct.

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[doommoose]

I am a member of a small diabetic body building group and for all intense and purposes our group could not work if we where carb intolerant. as a daily counter and keen follower of macro nutrition i understand the premise of carb counting along with fat protein and calories but. the problems with cutting out carbs from a diet are horrible. your body has little to no energy as it must burn body fats for this it also slows down your metabolism to the extreme not allowing your body to process everything and i believe it sounds like a **** version of the atkins diet (which was poor anyway) which basicly brings on a version of ketoacidosis wich is to be avoided by the plague. why would you do this to yourself??

 

[Spiker]

So the basal I inject to cope with natural blood sugar production from my body is poisen

Well you are also injecting insulin for ketone clearance, but yes. The sugar produced (unnaturally, because it would normally be regulated) is poison to you, and the insulin you inject as an antidote is also a poison (to anyone).

as well as the sugar my body produces being poisen.

Yes

But, if I don't eat carbs then my basal is not poisen

No, it's still poison and it's still dangerous if you mismatch the dose, particularly if you overdose. Basal insulin is slower acting poison.

but, injecting qa to match my carbs would then be poisen?

Yes. Again if you inject too much you get poisoned, your brain starts to shut down, and if you inject too much, you die. Does that sound like a poison to you?


Insulin is a poison. It was developed billions of years ago by predatory bacteria as a chemical weapon to attack, destroy and consume the resources of other bacteria. We incorporated into our genome as a way of moving resources around internally within our bodies, but it remains a dangerous poison.

 

[Spiker]

Sorry, but having the correct dose of background insulin for a normal day even with no carbs can lead to hypos should not enough notice be given to know to reduce basal insulin. Not just overdosing. Alot easier on a pump,but,can happen.

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No. By definition, that's an overdose. It's not the 'correct' dose just because it's the same dose you took yesterday. If it caused a hypo, that's an overdose.

 

[mrman]

but, by definition doesnt poisen kill, its keeping me alive regardless of carbs. So its not poisonous to me. Good job really lol

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[Scandichic]

I am a member of a small diabetic body building group and for all intense and purposes our group could not work if we where carb intolerant. as a daily counter and keen follower of macro nutrition i understand the premise of carb counting along with fat protein and calories but. the problems with cutting out carbs from a diet are horrible. your body has little to no energy as it must burn body fats for this it also slows down your metabolism to the extreme not allowing your body to process everything and i believe it sounds like a **** version of the atkins diet (which was poor anyway) which basicly brings on a version of ketoacidosis wich is to be avoided by the plague. why would you do this to yourself??

As far as I am aware it is quite difficult to cut carbs out completely but for some of us, starchy carbs have an adverse effect on our bs so we don't eat them. I can eat salad and green veg , peppers, mushrooms, tomatoes but rice, pasta, bread and potatoes send me into double figures. I follow LCHF which is a perfectly balanced diet. See www.dietdoctor.com which is written by a Swedish doctor specialising in obesity and diabetes.

 

[Spiker]

Would like to add I need carbs. I insulate for approx 200 carbs a day,but due to activities at least every other day I have another 100~150 extra carbs, which I do not need to insulate qa for, (not all in one go, spread throughout the day) all and depending on activity a reduced temp basal which is already only 8 units. Whats the alternatives, less carbs, less insulin, more weight loss, but, with none spare to lose, as my body is lacking a major growth hormone ,insulin. If I were to eat more carbs than my body needed, therefore injecting more than I needed I would probably end up overweight, but then I would reduce carbs and insulin to correct.

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You don't need carbs for your activity. Your activity needs can be met by fat or protein (or alcohol - not recommended). Dietary carbohydrate is a non essential nutrient. You can survive without carbs, but you can't survive without fat or protein. Even internal to your body, glucose is only to needed to meet part of your brain's needs, and the required glucose can be synthesised from other sources. You do not need carbs. It's a myth. No human needs dietary carbs.

 

[Spiker]

but, by definition doesnt poisen kill, its keeping me alive regardless of carbs. So its not poisonous to me. Good job really lol

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No. By definition all poisons can kill. That doesn't mean they always do kill. It is always dependent on the dose.

 

[mrman]

No. By definition, that's an overdose. It's not the 'correct' dose just because it's the same dose you took yesterday. If it caused a hypo, that's an overdose.

So what do you do in that circumstance, where the insulin for some unknowm reason is incorrectly matched, weather basal or bolus. Id assume.have carbs, but if that person was carb intollerant, that would not help

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[mrman]

You don't need carbs for your activity. Your activity needs can be met by fat or protein (or alcohol - not recommended). Dietary carbohydrate is a non essential nutrient. You can survive without carbs, but you can't survive without fat or protein. Even internal to your body, glucose is only to needed to meet part of your brain's needs, and the required glucose can be synthesised from other sources. You do not need carbs. It's a myth. No human needs dietary carbs.

but I tried less carbs with reduced insulin and eating more low carb food a long time ago, not only lost weight, bit.muscle mass also, this was with having protein shakes.

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[Spiker]

I am a member of a small diabetic body building group and for all intense and purposes our group could not work if we where carb intolerant. as a daily counter and keen follower of macro nutrition i understand the premise of carb counting along with fat protein and calories but. the problems with cutting out carbs from a diet are horrible. your body has little to no energy as it must burn body fats for this it also slows down your metabolism to the extreme not allowing your body to process everything and i believe it sounds like a **** version of the atkins diet (which was poor anyway) which basicly brings on a version of ketoacidosis wich is to be avoided by the plague. why would you do this to yourself??

Sorry you have got this all wrong.

As diabetic body builders you are carb intolerant, and using carbs is going to harm you by putting pressure on your pancreas and insulin resistance (assuming you are type 2), and (if you are type 1) is only possibly through the use of external insulin because, absent external insulin, you are almost totally carb intolerant.

The consequences of cutting out carbs are not a reduction in the feeling of energy, they are an increase in the feeling of energy. The bad feelings you describe occur during the transition between carb-heavy metabolism and low-carb metabolism. Once the body is in low carb metabolism (ketosis) it feels great and has abundant energy.

Ketosis is not to be confused with ketoacidosis. It is not 'a version of' ketoacidosis. Ketoacidisis is a blood acidity derangement caused by failing to clear ketones from the blood. The presence of ketones in the blood is normal and not harmful. Ketones are the normal metabolic fuel of heart muscle. Ketosis diets like Atkins burn fat and ketones rather than carbs, and derive glucose for the brain's needs from protein.

 

[mrman]

No. By definition all poisons can kill. That doesn't mean they always do kill. It is always dependent on the dose.

Or the livers lack of response to "liver dump" and increase levels quick enough.

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[Spiker]

So what do you do in that circumstance, where the insulin for some unknowm reason is incorrectly matched, weather basal or bolus. Id assume.have carbs, but if that person was carb intollerant, that would not help

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When you have a hypo, it is an iatrogenic problem, a problem caused by medication. You took too much of one poison (insulin) so you have to take another poison (carbs) as the antidote. Insulin is the poisonous antidote to carbs, and carbs are the poisonous antidote to insulin.