Diabetics are carb intolerant

[Spiker]

but I tried less carbs with reduced insulin and eating more low carb food a long time ago, not only lost weight, bit.muscle mass also, this was with having protein shakes.

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Probably you weren't eating enough fat. It's very important to increase the fat when you reduce the carbs. This protects the protein so it can be used for muscle repair and gain, instead of being used for muscle wastage. And obviously you actually have to eat enough total calories to maintain weight rather than losing weight.

 

[mrman]

Calling insulin poisen, and carbs poisen, when a good combo of the 2 keep me alive, well and healthy just doesnt make sense to me. Would rather have them than not or else I would not be here now.

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[mrman]

Probably you weren't eating enough fat. It's very important to increase the fat when you reduce the carbs. This protects the protein so it can be used for muscle repair and gain, instead of being used for muscle wastage. And obviously you actually have to eat enough total calories to maintain weight rather than losing weight.

Was and still have plenty of fat. Thats an assumption made just.because I eat carbs, all be it wrong.

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[popsy]

What an unusual and downright ignorant first post on the forum!

You say this thread has angered you? well we have something in common as your post has angered me and 1000's others I would imagine!

Indeed.

 

[mo1905]

A poison is anything that taken in a large enough quantity can cause harm to the body. Even water is a poison if taken in huge amounts. Spiker, I'm surprised you get time to eat anything lol ! You fingers must be sore with all this typing lol

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[Spiker]

Was and still have plenty of fat. Thats an assumption made just.because I eat carbs, all be it wrong.

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So you're saying that you had plenty of fat, and plenty of protein, and yet you lost muscle mass, and you think it's because you were cutting carbs? The only explanation for that then is if you didn't have enough dietary protein. Your body will not consume muscle protein if there is enough dietary protein available. Unless you reduced your insulin so much that you went into a state similar to an undiagnosed diabetic or someone doing diabulimia.

Anyway I've had a gentle poke from the mods, so here endeth the lesson.

 

[mrman]

So you're saying that you had plenty of fat, and plenty of protein, and yet you lost muscle mass, and you think it's because you were cutting carbs? The only explanation for that then is if you didn't have enough dietary protein. Your body will not consume muscle protein if there is enough dietary protein available. Unless you reduced your insulin so much that you went into a state similar to an undiagnosed diabetic or someone doing diabulimia.

Anyway I've had a gentle poke from the mods, so here endeth the lesson.

Problem was not poor numbers or diabulimia, and surprised to see such a throwaway comment on such a serious illness in order to prove your point. the fact was I couldn't gain/keep weight on a reduced carb diet. I was more than meeting my calorific requirements. The drop in insulin (growth hormone) resulted in me not having enough insulin for my bodies requirements, plain and simple.

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[Ashlie]

Ashlie - it is extremely unlikely I will have a hypo requiring intervention. I am T2, no medication and with non-diabetic level HbA1cs the twice I have been tested since diagnosis.

I have regular blood readings in the 3s, both pre and post prandially. On those levels I am fine, and if my body thinks I'm a bit low my liver steps in and contributes to the picture. I reckon that happens at 3.4 and raises me to around 4.

Therefore, I would conclude that if I were to experience a funny turn today , the last hing I would need would be some jelly babies. I might enjoy them, but probably not need then.

The term diabetes is an umbrella term for a wide range of conditions and severities.

Going back to my analogy of the upset person, it's unimportant if it's someone else. It was an example of when somebody doesn't really need to know all the details, and would probably be uncomfortable in the face of the disclosure.

Well lucky you that yours is more diet controlled as apposed to having to inject god knows how many times a day, trying your best to level your bgs to a safe place yet no matter what you trying including cutting out carbs it not working, I get told off by all my health professionals about my levels and hba1c all the time and it is so frustrating because I try everything and cannot bring them down, even changing my ratios I'm either really high or in a hypo, my consultant said that if I didn't look so well on myself he would admit me because of how high my levels always are, doesn't matter whether I have carbs or not, whether I carb count or not, like you say everyone has it on different scales but I do not believe it is an intolerance to carbs knowing the daily struggle I have to just feel normal x

 

[doommoose]

Sorry you have got this all wrong.

As diabetic body builders you are carb intolerant, and using carbs is going to harm you by putting pressure on your pancreas and insulin resistance (assuming you are type 2), and (if you are type 1) is only possibly through the use of external insulin because, absent external insulin, you are almost totally carb intolerant.

The consequences of cutting out carbs are not a reduction in the feeling of energy, they are an increase in the feeling of energy. The bad feelings you describe occur during the transition between carb-heavy metabolism and low-carb metabolism. Once the body is in low carb metabolism (ketosis) it feels great and has abundant energy.

Ketosis is not to be confused with ketoacidosis. It is not 'a version of' ketoacidosis. Ketoacidisis is a blood acidity derangement caused by failing to clear ketones from the blood. The presence of ketones in the blood is normal and not harmful. Ketones are the normal metabolic fuel of heart muscle. Ketosis diets like Atkins burn fat and ketones rather than carbs, and derive glucose for the brain's needs from protein.

but the body will only burn fats in the abscense of carbs and cutting out one major food group will indominably damage you for example if you said you were proteins or fats from your diet you would do yourself more damage than if you where consuming all three. also being intollerent to something wouldmake you for example like a celiac, where it will royally mess you up if you eat gluton. you dont see celiac's going around eating toast then dosing off an epipen they avoid it as would diabetics if they where intolerant of carbs. if anything we are carb tollerent but too damaged to use these sources of energy as we would see fit

also carbs massivly help the body maintain normal bowel movement that reduces risk of constipation, hemorrhoids, diverticulosis and colon cancer. By increasing excretion of cholesterol, fiber may decrease risk of heart disease, and by providing a feeling of fullness, which may help reduce risk of obesity. so if we where carb intollerent we would all be fat constipated cancer patients

 

[annelise]

With all respect for the discussion in this thread – and in other threads as well – I think that one problem is that generally we do not know whether the poster or responder is a Type 1 or a Type 2 diabetic.

The strategies for coping with the one or the other type will be quite different and often lead to misunderstandings because of preconceived notions generally about diabetes.

I do wish that posters would say (maybe in their signature) where they come from – diabeteswise. I think that this would lead to a better dialogue. As has been said again and again 'one size does not fit all'.

annelise

 

[mrman]

Just testing signature

Type 1, pumping nova rapid

 

[doommoose]

but, by definition doesnt poisen kill, its keeping me alive regardless of carbs. So its not poisonous to me. Good job really lol

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i portionally weigh and record all my food intakes so i know how many carbs are in the eggs i eat in the peas i eat and so on also the carbs i do consume are generally low gi so brown rice, wholewheat pasta, brown bread, sweet potato's but as i have to consume upto 400g of carbohydrate a day i find it easyiest to plan what i am eating for a week and at what times as i have to eat 6 times a day

 

[ElyDave]

Oh dear, this was only ever going in one direction wasn't it?

And for the record, I'm not carb intolerant, I'm just pacreatically deficient.

My muscles are quite happily using carbs all the time. Brain occaisionally as well.

 

[Ashlie]

I am one of those much maligned fat people who have brought this on myself. So obviously my opinion won't count for anything. I would like to say one or two of you do seem to be a tad self-righteous. I was like that too when I was slim. What I would like to see is all type 2's who are in the normal weight range at diagnosis to be tested for visceral fat. We all know that visceral fat is what causes the problem. I would like to see how many 'skinny' people are 'skinny on the inside' too. I am sure this would help us understand diabetes even more. There, I have had my say, now I'll go and crawl back under my boulder, because of course a rock isn't big enough.

Doesn't mean your opinion doesn't count, you still have to live with it whether it was down to your poor choices or not, I don't have anything against anybody regardless of size or anything I'm not superficial nor am I judgemental which you clearly are judging by your "skinny" comments, yes I maybe slim but it's not by choice, I've always been slim and when I was at my worst (so far) with my diabetes I was scarily slim and it knocked my confidence for 6 I now have put on 3 stone since then and it's been a struggle and I'm happy with my weight more or less, if anything I could do with a little bit more weight on me but this is the healthiest I have been (weight wise) in 3 years, don't think that all slim people want or choose to be that way, I've had bullies n people talking about me in the street calling me anorexic when I'm far from it, it's not just bigger people that get **** for their weight you know!! Everyone has their own stories and their own struggles all I'm saying is nothing I did caused my pancreas to kill itself I could not have prevented it n now I'm stuck with this stupid disease for the rest of my life, struggling everyday just to feel normal through no fault of my own n I still find it hard to get my head around, I don't think you should go hide anywhere your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, I just don't agree that T1 in anyway shape or form can be seen as carb intolerant but some T2 can

 

[shellysexbomb]

I am very overweight. Regardless of the weight diabetes was going to hit me as it runs down the maternal side of my family. I have a 7stone (when wet through) sister in law who has VERY high cholesterol, whereas mine when last checked was a lovely 4.7. I think THAT is the point that Zand is making. Even if you are slim and 'gettin away' with eating lots of carbs/sugar, you MIGHT have more fat on the inside that the 'fatties' so have you self inflicted it too?

Edit: To say when I said 'you' I meant it as a broad question to the skinny people who eat lots of bad food and think that there is no way they could get the 'fat people's' disease.

 

[noblehead]

The only reason us Type 1s need carbs is as an antidote to when we have overdosed on injected insulin. This is to do with treatment, not to do with the condition itself . (Hypos are "iatrogenic"). We need carbs the way a nerve gas victim needs atropine - another antidote that is highly poisonous and can easily kill if it is misused. Otherwise, unless we are dealing with an overdose of injected insulin, we don't need carbs. In all other situations we are carb intolerant and can only ingest carbs with any degree of safety by injecting this drug, insulin, and dealing with the risks that injecting the drug entails.

The above did make me laugh Spiker, comparing carbs to nerve gas

I need as much insulin eating a low-carb diet high in fat and protein as I do eating carbs in moderation, if only low-carb meant no insulin or very low insulin doses, as I said earlier in the thread, by us (type 1's) injecting insulin we are only doing what our otherwise healthy pancreas would be doing........ it's a simple as that.

 

[Robinredbreast]

A poison is anything that taken in a large enough quantity can cause harm to the body. Even water is a poison if taken in huge amounts. Spiker, I'm surprised you get time to eat anything lol ! You fingers must be sore with all this typing lol

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Yes that's true Mo. I do not like the word poison used with the word Insulin! and how Insulin keeps diabetics alive, more so type 1 Also the thought of'me 'poisoning' my 5 year old granddaughter when I inject her, fills me with sadness, I am so lucky to have her here alive, well and happy
Whoever agrees or does not agree with the original post and subsequent threads, lets steer clear of this' toxic' word, pleaseeeeeeee. :-D

 

[noblehead]

Yes that's true Mo. I do not like the word poison used with the word Insulin! and how it's keeps diabetics alive, more so type 1 Also the thought of' 'poisoning' my 5 year old granddaughter when I inject her, fills me with sadness, I am so lucky to have her here alive, well and happy
Whoever agrees or does not agree with the original post and subsequent threads, lets steer clear of this' toxic' word, please .

Agreed RRB, to use the word poison is ridiculous

 

[Ashlie]

I am very overweight. Regardless of the weight diabetes was going to hit me as it runs down the maternal side of my family. I have a 7stone (when wet through) sister in law who has VERY high cholesterol, whereas mine when last checked was a lovely 4.7. I think THAT is the point that Zand is making. Even if you are slim and 'gettin away' with eating lots of carbs/sugar, you MIGHT have more fat on the inside that the 'fatties' so have you self inflicted it too?

Edit: To say when I said 'you' I meant it as a broad question to the skinny people who eat lots of bad food and think that there is no way they could get the 'fat people's' disease.

Then yes in that respect I agree, if a "skinny" person has something wrong with them that could have been prevented in some way, if they know the implications of what they are doing then yes its self inflicted, like an alcoholic can't be shocked when they are told they have liver failure because they have brought it on themselves x

 

[zand]

Doesn't mean your opinion doesn't count, you still have to live with it whether it was down to your poor choices or not, I don't have anything against anybody regardless of size or anything I'm not superficial nor am I judgemental which you clearly are judging by your "skinny" comments, yes I maybe slim but it's not by choice, I've always been slim and when I was at my worst (so far) with my diabetes I was scarily slim and it knocked my confidence for 6 I now have put on 3 stone since then and it's been a struggle and I'm happy with my weight more or less, if anything I could do with a little bit more weight on me but this is the healthiest I have been (weight wise) in 3 years, don't think that all slim people want or choose to be that way, I've had bullies n people talking about me in the street calling me anorexic when I'm far from it, it's not just bigger people that get **** for their weight you know!! Everyone has their own stories and their own struggles all I'm saying is nothing I did caused my pancreas to kill itself I could not have prevented it n now I'm stuck with this stupid disease for the rest of my life, struggling everyday just to feel normal through no fault of my own n I still find it hard to get my head around, I don't think you should go hide anywhere your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, I just don't agree that T1 in anyway shape or form can be seen as carb intolerant but some T2 can

Nice reply! Only thing I really want to say is that I didn't cause the depression and other problems that caused me to be fat and lazy either. If you knew what had caused me grief for most of my life you would be shocked, I felt you were being judgmental when you said it was because of bad lifestyle choices. Look at any fat person and they will have a story to tell you, and it's not all about eating too much and not exercising enough. It isn't all within our control either. And yes, I feel for you, it must be horrid being so young and being diagnosed with diabetes. No, of course you didn't do anything to cause it. I hope the everyday struggle gets better for you, there's lots of intelligent T1's on this forum who might be able to help you. I agree with you about the carb intolerant question, but I also understand where the other contributors to this thread are coming from in this respect. Like I said, nice reply, I appreciate it.