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Did a plant base diet ever work for metabolic syndromes?
- Thread starter Drfarxan
- Start Date
Oldvatr
Expert
Ah yes.
https://www.xperthealth.org.uk/x-pert-blogs/considerations-for-a-meat-free-diet/
They incompletely state B12 is essential for the nervous system, but in actual fact, it is more essential in the production of hemoglobin.
I agree with what they write here, but it is without reference to diabetes in any form, so I was unable to find anything about using their courses to support a plant based regime per se.
lucylocket61
Expert
I have about 75% veg with my 25% meat, so thats plant based - unless the terminology has a specific meaning? I get confused with all the terms : (
Oldvatr
Expert
You may be right about chocolate mousse, but there are meat based mousses around. For it to be plant-based, it cannot use gelatin, or milk or egg products but rely on ersatz equivalents such as seaweed extract, soymilk etc. Honey is also not to be used, but HFCS is an acceptable alternative, I believe.
Mr_Pot
Well-Known Member
I often roast meat on top of a layer of chopped onions, carrots and celery, so that definitely has a plant base.
lucylocket61
Expert
So plant based means vegan?
MrsA2
Expert
In its strictest form, yes, but with no worldwide legal definition it can be plastered across almost anything, hence my chocolate mousse example which uses animal products of milk and eggs
I also laugh at the adverts for "plant based products" made to look like meat. A true vegan not eating animal products for 'humane ' reasons, would not really want to see anything that represents a dead animal
"Honey is also not to be used, but HFCS is an acceptable alternative, I believe." What better than the English language to have expressed this absurdity.Loved it.
Hello lucklocket,
Looking at your HbA1c it doesn't look like you are in remission. So it made me a little curious and i have some questions if you don't mind.
Are you on a ketogenic diet? or just low carb? If no which diet are you on? When did you start the diet? Are you using any meds? if yes which ones? What is your BMI now and did it change through out the 9 years you have had diabetes?
lucylocket61
Expert
What do you mean by remission? I have nearly normal levels, just inside the type 2 diabetes level after 9 years of diagnosis.
If you read my past posts you will know what I eat etc.
If you read my past posts you will know what I eat etc.
lucylocket61
Expert
Ps. What type of diabetes do you have, or what is your connection with diabetes?
Remission as in non diabetic HbA1c levels but some people consider below 48mmol/ml prediabetic levels as remission.
It would have been nice if you answered but its ok. I was just curious
Ps: i have type 2 diabetes
Mr_Pot
Well-Known Member
People might be more forthcoming if they knew why you were asking and if you set an example by giving details of your own condition.
lucylocket61
Expert
I did answer. Look at my post history for the information you are seeking, and read the signature under my posts.
D
Deleted member 532959
Guest
Unless there's an entire pigs head, turkey or fish on your dinner plate then there's very little in terms of animal products that look like the actual animals from whence they came.
The majority of vegans have spent most of their lives eating non-vegan fayre, so I don't see it as odd to try to re-create those foods without all the horror that comes with it. And while I understand why many vegans get squeamish about the similarities in look or texture, I am not. Were someone to put a lab-grown steak in front of me, that had been guaranteed to be suffering and death free i.e not a part of the general meat industry, I'd probably eat it. I'd at least try it. But I wouldn't make a habit of eating it.
Nice to see you back after one thread where you had been making useful contributions got closed
Hi, type 1 vegetarian here... can't therefore comment on vegan lifestyle but some assumptions seem to have been made in the thread which I query.
A lot of health benefit can be gained from moving away from processed food (or not having it too often). Similarly, the cut of meat you choose and I would guess the quality of the meat has an impact on health too. I find it funny when there are vegan or veggie alternatives which essentially are ready meals. I wouldn't consider these, and would carefully look at the ingredients list. The fact that it is vegan wouldn't necessarily be an issue though, it is the processing/preservatives/fillers to add bulk which I would attribute to glucose spikes. Indeed, cheap sausages usually have carby fillers, if I ate meat I'd avoid these just like I avoid veggie sausage alternatives.
Vegetarian foods certainly don't have to be high carb. I frequently eat under 50g carbs a day, only over 100g a day at Christmas usually. I'm not trying to eat low carb, it has always just been my usual diet even pre-diagnosis. I do appreciate many type 2s would struggle on 50g carbs a day but don't understand the assumption that all vegan meals must be high carb. I also find it funny when veggie or vegan foods try to copy meaty foods. I find it is when they're trying to replicate meat dishes that the extra carbs get added. You might find cooking veggie/vegan foods yourself results in lower carb meals as you've chosen what to add.
The benefits one person perceives will depend on their goal. Don't forget non diabetics have glucose spikes. Obviously we need to avoid staying high or having yo-yos. You will approach this very differently depending on your diabetes type and other health conditions and other medication too of course.
A lot of health benefit can be gained from moving away from processed food (or not having it too often). Similarly, the cut of meat you choose and I would guess the quality of the meat has an impact on health too. I find it funny when there are vegan or veggie alternatives which essentially are ready meals. I wouldn't consider these, and would carefully look at the ingredients list. The fact that it is vegan wouldn't necessarily be an issue though, it is the processing/preservatives/fillers to add bulk which I would attribute to glucose spikes. Indeed, cheap sausages usually have carby fillers, if I ate meat I'd avoid these just like I avoid veggie sausage alternatives.
Vegetarian foods certainly don't have to be high carb. I frequently eat under 50g carbs a day, only over 100g a day at Christmas usually. I'm not trying to eat low carb, it has always just been my usual diet even pre-diagnosis. I do appreciate many type 2s would struggle on 50g carbs a day but don't understand the assumption that all vegan meals must be high carb. I also find it funny when veggie or vegan foods try to copy meaty foods. I find it is when they're trying to replicate meat dishes that the extra carbs get added. You might find cooking veggie/vegan foods yourself results in lower carb meals as you've chosen what to add.
The benefits one person perceives will depend on their goal. Don't forget non diabetics have glucose spikes. Obviously we need to avoid staying high or having yo-yos. You will approach this very differently depending on your diabetes type and other health conditions and other medication too of course.
D
Deleted member 532959
Guest
Don't know anything about that, I'm afraid.
Either a fasting plasma glucose test or an HbA1c test may be used to diagnose type 2 diabetes or prediabetes.
The following results indicate the presence of prediabetes:
- Fasting plasma glucose: 5.5 mmol/L to 6.9 mmol/L
- HbA1c: 42 to 47 mmol/mol (6.0 to 6.4%) [361]
- https://www.diabetes.co.uk/pre-diabetes.html. This also suggests that your figure of 48mmol/ml is the bottom level of full blown diabetes. But the bottom level of prediabetes is 42 mmol/ml. Below that is non diabetic/normoglycaemic. So 41mmol/ml ?
target6point4
Active Member
I am an on and off member here and thought I should add my two cents worth to this discussion.
I have been diagnosed with T2 in 2013 and have tried almost everything since then to achieve a good balance between sugar numbers and quality of life. My current approach is to completely cut out meat products and heavily restrict dairy consumption (Just the coffee with some cream and some dessert once a week) I have noticed that since taking this approach, my diabetic medications have been having a more pronounced effect to the point that I have reduced my Insulin dosage to a bare minimum and still see fasting numbers under 8. (These used to be 11+ at one point despite more meds)
After everything, I would say that it all boils down to just one word, "discipline". There are a few things that you have to be a bit of a fanatic about but they can be really worth it. My personal tips would be:
1) Restrict yourself to two hearty meals a day with maybe a tea/coffee somewhere in between.
2) No meat substitutes. No matter how fancy they sound. Vegetable products stuffed with chemicals to make them look/smell/taste like meat are an absolute no no.
3) White breads/pasta/rice should be replaced by brown counterparts while restricting their portions to under 80g of carb per meal. This adds up to 160g per day.
4) No processed sauces etc. The less food you consume out of plastic/glass packaging, the better.
5) Hydrate regularly
6) If possible, fast occassionally. Fasting has traditionally been part of all cultures and for goood reason. I have noticed that doing IF for just a week can improve fasting numbers.
7) Some moderate exercise to top it off. Walking vigourously for even 30 mins can have a wonderful effect.
To answer the OP's question, plant based diets can be helpful but it is also very easy to get them wrong.
I have been diagnosed with T2 in 2013 and have tried almost everything since then to achieve a good balance between sugar numbers and quality of life. My current approach is to completely cut out meat products and heavily restrict dairy consumption (Just the coffee with some cream and some dessert once a week) I have noticed that since taking this approach, my diabetic medications have been having a more pronounced effect to the point that I have reduced my Insulin dosage to a bare minimum and still see fasting numbers under 8. (These used to be 11+ at one point despite more meds)
After everything, I would say that it all boils down to just one word, "discipline". There are a few things that you have to be a bit of a fanatic about but they can be really worth it. My personal tips would be:
1) Restrict yourself to two hearty meals a day with maybe a tea/coffee somewhere in between.
2) No meat substitutes. No matter how fancy they sound. Vegetable products stuffed with chemicals to make them look/smell/taste like meat are an absolute no no.
3) White breads/pasta/rice should be replaced by brown counterparts while restricting their portions to under 80g of carb per meal. This adds up to 160g per day.
4) No processed sauces etc. The less food you consume out of plastic/glass packaging, the better.
5) Hydrate regularly
6) If possible, fast occassionally. Fasting has traditionally been part of all cultures and for goood reason. I have noticed that doing IF for just a week can improve fasting numbers.
7) Some moderate exercise to top it off. Walking vigourously for even 30 mins can have a wonderful effect.
To answer the OP's question, plant based diets can be helpful but it is also very easy to get them wrong.
