Type 2 Diet and Meds - which ??

DCUKMod · Jul 14, 2019

HSSS said:
Whilst you are right in that for most of us the dietary change needs to be long term and it has to suit the individual, this post (to me) sounds a little defeatist which surprises me from you. And the original question was which diet and what to do with meds during it. Not diet or meds as alternatives.

Many people are a bit daunted by the idea of low carb when they first consider it as it is so very different to the way most people eat. I mention low carb specifically as this seems to be the approach that works best for most type 2 and because it is an approach many have never tried before unlike low calorie. However an awful lot once they have read up about it and hopefully found some supportive resources like this forum or other online groups find it a lot easier than they expected to and once used to it actually prefer it to the old carb heavy way of eating. It’s a mindset change as much as anything. Had they made the assumptions before trying it then they never would have known if it were sustainable or not.

And if diet change is tried first and isn’t found to be sustainable it doesn’t mean it was a waste of time. Perhaps some weight loss or blood levels will have improved a bit anyway and given a head start. Perhaps the approach can be adapted to make it more manageable . Perhaps medications can then be introduced knowing that for that person it is the best way, having tried alternatives first, perhaps at lower levels than if no changes at all had been made.

It's not at all defeatist.

Over time, we have seen many, many posters who set out on a very strict regime, which seems, on the face of it, to be absolutely almost opposite of their previous eating style. That's all great, but often they fall from the wagon.

There's no shame for having a blip, but in reality, for them, their changes haven't been sustainable.

For me, at the outset (with an A1c of 73), I only made changes I could contunie for the longer term shere I needed to. In 4 months, which was spent overseas travelling, I made those sustainable changes and at that 4 month point, my A1c was 37, and has never been above 34 sine. My last was 27 or 4.6%.

In my time in corporalte land, I spent years working on Change; Corporate, cultural and personal. One thing of which I a certain is if an individual is not up for change, it won't happen. If they don't believe they can sustain a change they are committing to, it will be short-lived.

With anything, there are exceptions to any rule, or usual finding, but bearing in mind diabetes is for the longer term, it makes sense to change to something one can carry on with.

I hope that helps explain my post better.

HSSS · Jul 14, 2019

DCUKMod said:
It's not at all defeatist.

Over time, we have seen many, many posters who set out on a very strict regime, which seems, on the face of it, to be absolutely almost opposite of their previous eating style. That's all great, but often they fall from the wagon.

There's no shame for having a blip, but in reality, for them, their changes haven't been sustainable.

For me, at the outset (with an A1c of 73), I only made changes I could contunie for the longer term shere I needed to. In 4 months, which was spent overseas travelling, I made those sustainable changes and at that 4 month point, my A1c was 37, and has never been above 34 sine. My last was 27 or 4.6%.

In my time in corporalte land, I spent years working on Change; Corporate, cultural and personal. One thing of which I a certain is if an individual is not up for change, it won't happen. If they don't believe they can sustain a change they are committing to, it will be short-lived.

With anything, there are exceptions to any rule, or usual finding, but bearing in mind diabetes is for the longer term, it makes sense to change to something one can carry on with.

I hope that helps explain my post better.

Again I agree with most of what you say. Long term, sustainable change is the most important and obviously has worked very well for you. We all respond differently. My more drastic changes have had a smaller overall effect despite maintaining them since diagnosis. Had I not tried the ambitious approach I’d have had even smaller results. For me the results also help toward motivation in continuing the new ways.

It just sounds a little like if you don’t think at the outset you can do it long term don’t bother trying in the first place. I prefer the give it a go and see how it works for you and then iron out the issues as you go approach. Especially with something radically different and new. Who knows how a person will respond til they try.

In just a year on here I’ve seen many a person think change/improvement in their situation is for them is impossible, only to try something new and be amazed that it wasn’t as difficult as they expected. Not all have been sudden, drastic or big changes either. Sometimes it’s been more moderate or a step at a time to make it sustainable.

Resurgam · Jul 14, 2019

I suppose I am a bit different to the usual, as I was not eating carbs , putting on weight and feeling rather old because I thought that was the right way to eat - quite the opposite, I only feel well eating low carbs - but the diet I was eating for almost two years ought to have been ideal - low fat, plenty of fruit and vegetables - wholemeal bread, baked potatoes, - we all know the advice by now. I was almost as round as I was tall.
I was told I was a very bad diabetic at diagnosis, but in 6 months I was not diabetic at all, and although I can't seem to lose weight or get my Hba1c levels further down I suspect that this is my normal - and at the age of 68 I should count myself lucky to have got so far.
I find it easy to eat low carb - my fridges and freezer are full of delicious foods, I have herbs and spices in the store cupboard to add even more delight, and I drink coffee with cream - this is not hardship.

DCUKMod · Jul 14, 2019

HSSS said:
Again I agree with most of what you say. Long term, sustainable change is the most important and obviously has worked very well for you. We all respond differently. My more drastic changes have had a smaller overall effect despite maintaining them since diagnosis. Had I not tried the ambitious approach I’d have had even smaller results. For me the results also help toward motivation in continuing the new ways.

It just sounds a little like if you don’t think at the outset you can do it long term don’t bother trying in the first place. I prefer the give it a go and see how it works for you and then iron out the issues as you go approach. Especially with something radically different and new. Who knows how a person will respond til they try.

In just a year on here I’ve seen many a person think change/improvement in their situation is for them is impossible, only to try something new and be amazed that it wasn’t as difficult as they expected. Not all have been sudden, drastic or big changes either. Sometimes it’s been more moderate or a step at a time to make it sustainable.

I'm not here to bicker or derail this thread, but you appear to be misinterpreting my sentiments, HSSS. I will leave this conversation now.

@chrisd1 - I wish you well, whichever route you elect. We all deserve good health.

chrisd1 · Jul 16, 2019

Mbaker said:
Fung for me. He is extremely articulate and I like what he says in relation to being able to make anyone fat with enough added insulin.

Michael Mosely treads a line between low calorie and the higher end of low carb I feel. Whilst I would not do low calorie, this was Michael on a better day in my view:

Thanks for the info, its all a great help - Chris.

chrisd1 · Jul 18, 2019

Resurgam said:
If your doctor or nurse insists that you need to be taking the medication or dreadful things will happen just tell them that there are people going from full on diabetic to normal levels in 6 months, and point them to this forum if they don't believe you.
This is just my normal though - I have never been able to eat 'normal' amounts of carbs - but it fixed the diabetes good and proper

Yes, the Dr is keen on meds for sure, I will be taking them for a while, but not too long if the diets work out ok,thanks for your comments, Chris.

chrisd1 · Jul 18, 2019

DCUKMod said:
It's not at all defeatist.

Over time, we have seen many, many posters who set out on a very strict regime, which seems, on the face of it, to be absolutely almost opposite of their previous eating style. That's all great, but often they fall from the wagon.

There's no shame for having a blip, but in reality, for them, their changes haven't been sustainable.

For me, at the outset (with an A1c of 73), I only made changes I could contunie for the longer term shere I needed to. In 4 months, which was spent overseas travelling, I made those sustainable changes and at that 4 month point, my A1c was 37, and has never been above 34 sine. My last was 27 or 4.6%.

In my time in corporalte land, I spent years working on Change; Corporate, cultural and personal. One thing of which I a certain is if an individual is not up for change, it won't happen. If they don't believe they can sustain a change they are committing to, it will be short-lived.

With anything, there are exceptions to any rule, or usual finding, but bearing in mind diabetes is for the longer term, it makes sense to change to something one can carry on with.

I hope that helps explain my post better.

All good points, thank you for this, yes, change can be hard and moving to a diet that you are happy with and can continue with long term is key. I feel we are on the right track, a few bumps on the way up the learning curve for sure. Still taking it in and learning as much as possible, thanks - Chris.

chrisd1 · Jul 18, 2019

HSSS said:
Again I agree with most of what you say. Long term, sustainable change is the most important and obviously has worked very well for you. We all respond differently. My more drastic changes have had a smaller overall effect despite maintaining them since diagnosis. Had I not tried the ambitious approach I’d have had even smaller results. For me the results also help toward motivation in continuing the new ways.

It just sounds a little like if you don’t think at the outset you can do it long term don’t bother trying in the first place. I prefer the give it a go and see how it works for you and then iron out the issues as you go approach. Especially with something radically different and new. Who knows how a person will respond til they try.

In just a year on here I’ve seen many a person think change/improvement in their situation is for them is impossible, only to try something new and be amazed that it wasn’t as difficult as they expected. Not all have been sudden, drastic or big changes either. Sometimes it’s been more moderate or a step at a time to make it sustainable.

Very good points, thank you

chrisd1 · Jul 18, 2019

Resurgam said:
I suppose I am a bit different to the usual, as I was not eating carbs , putting on weight and feeling rather old because I thought that was the right way to eat - quite the opposite, I only feel well eating low carbs - but the diet I was eating for almost two years ought to have been ideal - low fat, plenty of fruit and vegetables - wholemeal bread, baked potatoes, - we all know the advice by now. I was almost as round as I was tall.
I was told I was a very bad diabetic at diagnosis, but in 6 months I was not diabetic at all, and although I can't seem to lose weight or get my Hba1c levels further down I suspect that this is my normal - and at the age of 68 I should count myself lucky to have got so far.
I find it easy to eat low carb - my fridges and freezer are full of delicious foods, I have herbs and spices in the store cupboard to add even more delight, and I drink coffee with cream - this is not hardship.

Thank you for sharing this, its an inspiration

DCUKMod · Jul 18, 2019

chrisd1 said:
All good points, thank you for this, yes, change can be hard and moving to a diet that you are happy with and can continue with long term is key. I feel we are on the right track, a few bumps on the way up the learning curve for sure. Still taking it in and learning as much as possible, thanks - Chris.

To be honest, @chrisd1 - for me, personally, my best, most robust learnings have involved bumps in the road. Thay way I learn not only what I should do, but also what I shouldn't do.

As an example, my Endo instructed (for a different condition) that I go gluten-free. Trust me, that's a pain, but there we are.

Every now and then I either trip up and have some gluten hidden in something, or I snaffle that really crispy crunchy bit of batter from the end of my OH's battered fish (he rarely has it, as he is very sensitive to fish - what a pair we are!). Both of those events are no followed by a couple of weeks of consequences I'll spare you the details of, but I sure as heck know I need to continue to be gluten-free, and I know if I transgress the consequences last a while.

I doubt there is anyone who arrives here at the beginning of their lifestyle modification journey who doesn't hit a fwew bumps in the road, but by-and-large, that's what they are, and we move on with more knowledge and thereby more power and confidence.

Daphne917 · Jul 20, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Hi, I have recently been diagnosed with type 2 - I am on Metformin 4 a day and Sandoz-Gliclazide 30mg - 1 a day. I am looking at 2 diets, Dr Jason Fung - https://www.dietdoctor.com/authors/dr-jason-fung-m-d - and Dr michael Mosley - https://thebloodsugardiet.com/
My questios are..................

Has anyone used any of the above diets and do they work ??

Do you come off the meds to go on the diets or stay on the meds while dieting,

Many thansk

Chris.

@chrisd1 I never read any books. I found this forum and quickly realised that my ‘healthy’ diet of low fat, low sugar, whole meal bread, brown rice and pasta, bran flakes, jacket potatoes and 5 portions of fruit per day inc bananas and grapes etc was not good for me and, once I got my head around the idea of eating full fat and less fruit, switched my diet to low carb and, with my meter, began to test to see what effect the food I ate had on my BS. It was quite an eye opener! Although I eat a reasonable number of carbs, averaging 100 - 130g per day I have maintained my hba1c within non diabetic levels for approx 6 years. I still test usually in the mornings but don’t tend to bother otherwise - although I will if it’s a food that I think will cause my BS to spike - Scampi is still my nemesis! Over the years I’ve also learnt that I can eat bread, albeit high protein, small portions of potatoes either roasted, mashed, new, baked or boiled and I am not adverse to having the odd piece of cake or two. For me it’s a balance between the higher the carbs the smaller the portion but it seems to work. For info I am diet controlled and stopped taking statins when they increased my hba1c from 48 at diagnosis to 54.

jjraak · Jul 20, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Hi, I have recently been diagnosed with type 2 - I am on Metformin 4 a day and Sandoz-Gliclazide 30mg - 1 a day. I am looking at 2 diets, Dr Jason Fung - https://www.dietdoctor.com/authors/dr-jason-fung-m-d - and Dr michael Mosley - https://thebloodsugardiet.com/
My questios are..................

Has anyone used any of the above diets and do they work ??

Do you come off the meds to go on the diets or stay on the meds while dieting,

Many thansk

Chris.

Hi @chrisd1

I have both books, but if I am honest, once I started reading Dr fungs I gave up on the other one

I don't follow fungs recipes, as he has none I am aware of, but I do follow the LCHF principal.and leaned towards the diet doctors website

And just a note @HSSS and @DCUKMod I hit agree to both your posts..not because, I am mad, but as you both make good arguments, and I even considered they were the same points, both well made, but perhaps coming from differing viewpoints.

Good luck whatever you choose, @chrisd1
The forum in all its many forms, posts n links is an invaluable tool.

pixie1 · Jul 20, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Hi, I have recently been diagnosed with type 2 - I am on Metformin 4 a day and Sandoz-Gliclazide 30mg - 1 a day. I am looking at 2 diets, Dr Jason Fung - https://www.dietdoctor.com/authors/dr-jason-fung-m-d - and Dr michael Mosley - https://thebloodsugardiet.com/
My questios are..................

Has anyone used any of the above diets and do they work ??

Do you come off the meds to go on the diets or stay on the meds while dieting,

Many thansk

Chris.

You seem to be on a lot of medication for a newly diagnosed diabetic.
Welcome to the forum.
It would be good to have information on your blood results, people would be able to have more ideas on advise. Do you have a print out. The HbA1c would be a good starting point.
Obviously you have a monitor for results of fasting, pre and post prandial, before and after eating. Dr Fung is popular, and low carbing has best results.

The diet doctor, is great, have a look through it for ideas.
Wish you well and good luck

chrisd1 · Jul 22, 2019

Daphne917 said:
@chrisd1 I never read any books. I found this forum and quickly realised that my ‘healthy’ diet of low fat, low sugar, whole meal bread, brown rice and pasta, bran flakes, jacket potatoes and 5 portions of fruit per day inc bananas and grapes etc was not good for me and, once I got my head around the idea of eating full fat and less fruit, switched my diet to low carb and, with my meter, began to test to see what effect the food I ate had on my BS. It was quite an eye opener! Although I eat a reasonable number of carbs, averaging 100 - 130g per day I have maintained my hba1c within non diabetic levels for approx 6 years. I still test usually in the mornings but don’t tend to bother otherwise - although I will if it’s a food that I think will cause my BS to spike - Scampi is still my nemesis! Over the years I’ve also learnt that I can eat bread, albeit high protein, small portions of potatoes either roasted, mashed, new, baked or boiled and I am not adverse to having the odd piece of cake or two. For me it’s a balance between the higher the carbs the smaller the portion but it seems to work. For info I am diet controlled and stopped taking statins when they increased my hba1c from 48 at diagnosis to 54.

Thanks, this is good info for me, still muddling my way through !!!

chrisd1 · Jul 22, 2019

pixie1 said:
You seem to be on a lot of medication for a newly diagnosed diabetic.
Welcome to the forum.
It would be good to have information on your blood results, people would be able to have more ideas on advise. Do you have a print out. The HbA1c would be a good starting point.
Obviously you have a monitor for results of fasting, pre and post prandial, before and after eating. Dr Fung is popular, and low carbing has best results.

The diet doctor, is great, have a look through it for ideas.
Wish you well and good luck

Thanks, I think my 3 month level was 23, that's what the doctor said. Now each morning is 6.8 so it's going down, the diet is also changing now and having an effect, I am also going to try CBD..

chrisd1 · Jul 22, 2019

DCUKMod said:
It's not at all defeatist.

Over time, we have seen many, many posters who set out on a very strict regime, which seems, on the face of it, to be absolutely almost opposite of their previous eating style. That's all great, but often they fall from the wagon.

There's no shame for having a blip, but in reality, for them, their changes haven't been sustainable.

For me, at the outset (with an A1c of 73), I only made changes I could contunie for the longer term shere I needed to. In 4 months, which was spent overseas travelling, I made those sustainable changes and at that 4 month point, my A1c was 37, and has never been above 34 sine. My last was 27 or 4.6%.

In my time in corporalte land, I spent years working on Change; Corporate, cultural and personal. One thing of which I a certain is if an individual is not up for change, it won't happen. If they don't believe they can sustain a change they are committing to, it will be short-lived.

With anything, there are exceptions to any rule, or usual finding, but bearing in mind diabetes is for the longer term, it makes sense to change to something one can carry on with.

I hope that helps explain my post better.

yES, IT DOES, THANKS FOR GETTING BACK TO ME

HSSS · Jul 22, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Thanks, I think my 3 month level was 23, that's what the doctor said. Now each morning is 6.8 so it's going down, the diet is also changing now and having an effect, I am also going to try CBD..

A 3 month average level would either be a single digit (most likely) with a % or a number upwards of 40 possibly up to 130mmol

A fasting in the here and now as it is right now reading could be anywhere between 4 and 30. Lower the better.

Daphne917 · Jul 22, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Thanks, this is good info for me, still muddling my way through !!!

You’ll get there - everyone is different and what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another so it’s about finding the way that’s best for you.

pixie1 · Jul 22, 2019

chrisd1 said:
Thanks, I think my 3 month level was 23, that's what the doctor said. Now each morning is 6.8 so it's going down, the diet is also changing now and having an effect, I am also going to try CBD..

What is CBD?

6.8 is in the right direct. If you drop carb it I'll become lower than6.8

chrisd1 · Jul 27, 2019

pixie1 said:
What is CBD?

6.8 is in the right direct. If you drop carb it I'll become lower than6.8

CBD is cannabis oil, you don't get the high

Type 2 Diet and Meds - which ??

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