Dilemma in losing weight for remission

[HSSS]

Some years back I also went really low carb and also went into remission. I think I went down to around 50kg, although I wasn't big before. My blood glucose level was great. Think maybe similar to yours. However, I was later found to be anaemic so had to stop the diet. Don't think the diet was the cause but quite likely exacerbated it greatly, even though I was careful to include iron rich food. I personally didn't like being so thin. I can't go back on that diet anyway as the anaemia problem has not been resolved. I'm now on tablets, insulin and a sensible diet and exercise. I'm still slim but not thin as before. I think it is very much a personal choice of how you feel as it is your life to live. There does come a time with some of us where insulin supply drops even for Type 2, so management without aids becomes much more difficult. It depends on how far you want to go. I'd say, if your happy with the way you look and feel then keep going with your diet. I'm 70 by the way. I've not heard of being low weight leading to an earlier death. I do think as you age you have to be aware of brittle bones and muscle atrophy though.

Why would being anemia mean giving up low carb? Do you mean iron deficiency anaemia or some other type?

Red meats and other iron rich food feature highly on my low carb diet as I am, and was pre low carb, seriously iron deficient even though not anemic. it would be even worse if I was chugging down carby food instead.

 

[onnecar]

Why would being anemia mean giving up low carb? Do you mean iron deficiency anaemia or some other type?

Red meats and other iron rich food feature highly on my low carb diet as I am, and was pre low carb, seriously iron deficient even though not anemic. it would be even worse if I was chugging down carby food instead.

I haven't given up low carb entirely. I eat very few carbs. This was the kevin Fong one where it was very low. In any case the doctors will tell you not to cut anything out of your diet if you have any vitamin deficiencies or any other health issue, and this includes Kevin Fong. It can make the situation more serious. It isn't necessarily about diet with me, I was eating loads of iron rich food. It's about the way the body operates if you have a deficiency. My body is not absorbing iron for some reason. I didn't just stop it on a whim, I took medical advice. I am still anaemic so cannot do extreme diets. I've eaten low carb since being diabetic donkey's years ago. Not everyone is blessed with no other health issues unfortunately. I have a lot of other things too. Although I keep myself fit. Yes it is iron deficiency anaemia in answer to your other question. I am certainly not chugging down lots of carby food. Why would you think that?

 

[onnecar]

I haven't given up low carb entirely. I eat very few carbs. This was the kevin Fong one where it was very low. In any case the doctors will tell you not to cut anything out of your diet if you have any vitamin deficiencies or any other health issue, and this includes Kevin Fong. It can make the situation more serious. It isn't necessarily about diet with me, I was eating loads of iron rich food. It's about the way the body operates if you have a deficiency. My body is not absorbing iron for some reason. I didn't just stop it on a whim, I took medical advice. I am still anaemic so cannot do extreme diets. I've eaten low carb since being diabetic donkey's years ago. Not everyone is blessed with no other health issues unfortunately. I have a lot of other things too. Although I keep myself fit. Yes it is iron deficiency anaemia in answer to your other question. I am certainly not chugging down lots of carby food. Why would you think that?

I'd just like to add that not all diets suit everyone, for various reasons. People often become quite evangelical and protective of their new found miracle cures. It's great if it works for them, but it may not be for everyone. Everyone's life and body is different.

 

[HSSS]

I haven't given up low carb entirely. I eat very few carbs. This was the kevin Fong one where it was very low. In any case the doctors will tell you not to cut anything out of your diet if you have any vitamin deficiencies or any other health issue, and this includes Kevin Fong. It can make the situation more serious. It isn't necessarily about diet with me, I was eating loads of iron rich food. It's about the way the body operates if you have a deficiency. My body is not absorbing iron for some reason. I didn't just stop it on a whim, I took medical advice. I am still anaemic so cannot do extreme diets. I've eaten low carb since being diabetic donkey's years ago. Not everyone is blessed with no other health issues unfortunately. I have a lot of other things too. Although I keep myself fit. Yes it is iron deficiency anaemia in answer to your other question. I am certainly not chugging down lots of carby food. Why would you think that?

You said you had to give up the diet having just mentioned low carb.

My deficiency is not related to iron intake either and as all other causes are ruled out it is also malabsorption of some type. I’m sorry but you’re the one making assumptions about me not having other considerations. Nor did I say you were chugging carbs. I said I would have bigger iron (and diabetes) issues if I ate/chugged carbs instead of the iron rich foods I do on low carb. Nor is low carb extreme unless listening to alarmists that don’t actually understand it used in the appropriate situation and way. To call those that do evangelical is quite frankly insulting and includes many drs too.

Most drs have very little training on diet and just regurgitate standard advice. I’m not familiar with Kevin fong (you don’t mean Jason fung do you?) And unless your dr could explain WHY it was detrimental I’d exercise a fair degree of scepticism. To suggest all drs tell you to keep all food items in your diet if you have any issues is both ridiculous and incorrect

Of course not everything suits everyone but not always for the reasons that they attribute it too. Some use false medical reasons when it is about personal likes dislikes or lack of knowledge

 

[Outlier]

Please, all of you who wish to share, do keep on sharing what works for you, because it might well work for others and is always worth a try. If I'd only known about keto and low-carb years ago, I could have saved myself from years and years of low-calorie misery.

 

[lucylocket61]

Just sharing experience: my husband became anaemic. After many tests and investigations it eventually was blamed on a little known side effect, for some, from Naproxen and other similar meds. Once he came off them, he was fine within 4 months.

 

[onnecar]

You said you had to give up the diet having just mentioned low carb.

My deficiency is not related to iron intake either and as all other causes are ruled out it is also malabsorption of some type. I’m sorry but you’re the one making assumptions about me not having other considerations. Nor did I say you were chugging carbs. I said I would have bigger iron (and diabetes) issues if I ate/chugged carbs instead of the iron rich foods I do on low carb. Nor is low carb extreme unless listening to alarmists that don’t actually understand it used in the appropriate situation and way. To call those that do evangelical is quite frankly insulting and includes many drs too.

Most drs have very little training on diet and just regurgitate standard advice. I’m not familiar with Kevin fong (you don’t mean Jason fung do you?) but unless said dr could explain WHY it was detrimental I’d exercise a fair degree of scepticism. To suggest all drs tell you to keep all food items in your diet if you have any issues is both ridiculous and incorrect

Of course not everything suits everyone but not always for the reasons that they attribute it too. Some use false medical reasons when it is about personal likes dislikes or lack of knowledge

I think we'll just leave it there. I am fed up with people making snap judgements on here without knowing the slightest thing about someone's background. Even if I had given up low carbs which I have not. It is not for you to make judgements thank you. I have my own long detailed medical history of diabetes and other problems. I have spent years researching all of them and many conversations with consultants and procedures and talks with doctors. I was not asking for advice. Merely giving my take on what experience I had in a similar situation. You have your life I have mine. Yes it probably was Jason Fung it was a while back. and I did go into complete remission. I think I've spoken to a lot more people about this issue than you have and you don't even have all the facts. It did very much sound like you were referring to me in a roundabout way with the carbs think but no matter I'm done here.

 

[chrisjohnh]

I think we'll just leave it there. I am fed up with people making snap judgements on here without knowing the slightest thing about someone's background. Even if I had given up low carbs which I have not. It is not for you to make judgements thank you. I have my own long detailed medical history of diabetes and other problems. I have spent years researching all of them and many conversations with consultants and procedures and talks with doctors. I was not asking for advice. Merely giving my take on what experience I had in a similar situation. You have your life I have mine. Yes it probably was Jason Fung it was a while back. and I did go into complete remission. I think I've spoken to a lot more people about this issue than you have and you don't even have all the facts. It did very much sound like you were referring to me in a roundabout way with the carbs think but no matter I'm done here.

The thread has somewhat transmuted from my original question into debate on other matters, but I would just like to commend the earlier respondents for their very helpful replies to me, for the time they spent in setting them out and for giving me some very useful references to study further - thank you to you all.

 

[Oldvatr]

May I point out that body builders have a shorter than normal lifespan. They may look fit, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, especially if you are looking at yourself in a mirror. All I am saying is that too much muscle is not a guarantee of longevity. Athletes die young too.

As a survivor of several strokes and heart attacks, my BMI of 21 and weight of 63 kg has not been a hindrance to me sitting here and breathing at the same time a decade on. Johny 5 is Alive.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi everyone,

Bringing the gavel down regarding any side topic bickering.

Please be mindful of the OP’s original question.

Thanx in advance…

 

[Lupf]

After T2D diagnosis in late 2020 I followed the standard prescription “lose at least 15kg and you’ll very likely achieve remission”. So that’s what I did and sure enough dragged my hba1c from 74 to 42 in a few months, and have kept it at or below there ever since, and with no difficulty. Job done. BUT - this entailed bringing my weight down to 64kg (BMI of 21) and I have read in various places that, for a 75 year old, this is likely to make me die quite a lot sooner than if I were 84kg, having almost no fat reserves and probably a much weaker immune system. Stroke recovery, for instance, would be much poorer for me than for those carrying a good deal more weight. Meanwhile, we in remission are constantly warned that regaining just a few kg will propel us out of remission. Is there a way out of this dilemma? I thought about boosting my weight but by eating extra fats and protein only - would that be sensible? My diet already draws half my calories from fats. Perhaps it’s just a choice of how and when to die - diabetically at age 80 or non-diabetically at age 77, for example. Advice welcome!

@chrisjohnh here is my two cents worth, some (most?) of it has been said already.
Losing weight has been beneficial for you (and me), so well done for getting to such low levels in a few months.
I don't know where you read this information that being heavier reduces the risk of dying from a stroke.
Can you point us to sources for this, please.
I agree with all that BMI is not a good measure, but a range of 20 to 25 is usually ok.

Are you feeling well at your current weight? Are you using this for walking, cycling, ...
I lost 10 kg and I feel much better now that I don't carry a spare tyre when cycling.
How does your weight compare to when you were 18 years old?
I would guess that If your weight is too low you would start to feel lethargic.

Do you consider your diet sustainable, i.e. you don't feel hungry all the time?
If so, great, as you want to be in a steady state.
If not you might not take in enough calories, and you will need to eat more fat and protein.
Recall that removing carbs without replacing these, will lower your metabolic rate
and you will burn fewer calories, feel hungry. This is not sustainable
and the main reason why most diets fail.

I've also been reading recently that it is important for 60+ to do weight training
as this is beneficial and protects against heart disease.
This would actually lead to gaining weight as muscle tissue is heavier than fat.
You will be more hungry and as long as you the additional food intake
is essentially fat and protein (do you like cheese?)
your HbA1c should stay where it is.
if you want to gain weight, this is where I would start.

 

[AloeSvea]

Hmmm. I think we truly know when slim/slender is healthy, and when it is not. (Unless eating disordered, and there is a word for folks who don't see illhealth in skinny bodies in the mirror - dys something or rather.)

And we have body types that run in families, so we know what is normal / healthy/ plump/ overweight/ fat with the body type we have too, I would say. And it isn't just body fat or the lack of it, it's hair texture, skin, eyes - we all have an instinct I believe, for seeing ill health in these things, or not. (Malnutrition has a particular look!) I am thinking no body fat when a person is dying - that person does not just look slender, and they certainly do not look muscular. That's a person who can no longer eat, and they are on their way out. and living off fat stores until that time. Anyway - I'm being a bit blunt here.

@chrisjohnh , if you are worried about longetivity for being slim/slender - ask a dear friend or intimate what they think about how healthy you look. Someone who is going to answer honestly. And look at long living family members who have a similar build to you. This is what I would recommend at any rate.

And I came across a very interesting article on type two's and life span - I found it very reassuring, as the old '10 years off' seems to be out, and more variables are in, including age of onset, and what country you are living in... I'll hunt it up...

It's called 'Type 2 Diabetes and Life Expectancy', by Ross Wollen, medical review by Dr Mike Natter, on the Diabetes Daily site.

This is what they say about weight loss (I don't really understand how it works, but I suppose it has to be about sick fat cells, our fat cells operating as an organ and its effect on our bodies as a whole - but I don't understand how weight loss can override hyperglycemia - so if anyone does - sing out!)

"Weight loss. For most patients with diabetes, weight loss also confers comprehensive health benefits. In fact, many experts now argue that weight loss is an even more important health goal than glycemic control, because it creates both blood sugar improvements and many other improvements besides. So it should be no surprise that a 2022 study found that weight loss was the only factor more powerful than glycemic improvements for creating gains in life expectancy.

An older study using data from the 1980s put the relationship into stark mathematical terms: “For the average patient each 1 kg weight loss was associated with 3-4 months prolonged survival.” That means that losing 10 pounds could extend a patient’s life by over a year, if that relationship remains accurate."

I wouldn't put much onto the final paragraph, but the first one has made me think a lot about this issue. and how it could be so (I am unconvinced but happy for my own prospects if there is genuine truth in it.). (I describe my own type two as weight-loss resistant type two, regarding complete remission chances at any rate.)

The article is American so ends up promoting pharmaceuticals (did I just say that??!!), but the section on cardio-vascular disease, and its prevention was well-worth a gander, and a good summary imho.