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Does Jason Fung's Advice Fit With Advanced Type 2?

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by Jasperville, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Jasperville

    Jasperville Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I've been trying intermittent fasting for a while, but usually only manage about 17 hours. Seems to have helped with weight loss.

    Although I enjoyed the obesity code, it left me with lots of questions..............I'm not sure the advice or science is tailored very well to established diabetics. I fully understand that in early diabetes, insulin levels are too high in response to insulin resistance. However, I thought that as time went on, insulin levels dropped due to beta cell burnout................I've been working on the assumption that after 19 years, I have insulin resistance AND low insulin levels (maybe 20% beta cell function). I have trouble believing my insulin levels are still too high, and that this is fuelling my continued insulin resistance. I suspect glucagon is involved somewhere.

    Anyone have any thoughts about this.......................I generally feel that people are getting a bit carried away with the idea that diabetes can be reversed. I'm sure IF can work very well in the early stages, but for me, I suspect that low carb will always be necessary - even if I become more insulin sensitive, I just don't think I make enough any more.
     
  2. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    I think it's way too individual to be sure. I posted the video about the 78 yo who was on insulin for 20 years but still manage to "reverse" her Type 2 using a keto diet and IF.

    The only way to know for sure how much insulin you're producing is to have a c-peptide test.

    I've made great improvements but only by continuing to low carb. I doubt if my first phase response will ever recover and/or it seems my personal fat threshold is at a lower body weight than I can comfortably maintain.

    I don't really care whether I'm "cured" or not because I think low carb is a rational way to eat given that the majority of modern chronic disease seems to be linked to hyperinsulinemia. Anything that keeps my insulin low is fine by me :)
     
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think that the only way you can tell where your insulin levels are is using the c-peptide test, so why not request that from your doc then you'll at least know where you are. Then you can decide what you should do. Personally I have found that longer periods of fasting have a greater effect on my BG levels than intermittent fasting. I never eat breakfast, just have a couple of mugs of tea, so always am fasting at least 15-16 hours daily. I got my sugars down very low by doing 3-5 day fasts maybe once a month. I however have only been diagnosed since Nov 2015 (pre diabetic Jan 2014).
    I read that Dr Fung has had success with people who have had Type 2 for much longer though so maybe try a more extended fast and see how you get on. I found that a very low carb high fat diet is the best way to lead into a fast as the fats do reduce the hunger pangs, my cheat is a mouthful of double cream if I get really hungry.
    Hope that helps.
    Regards
    Mark
     
  4. connie104

    connie104 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was diagnosed 7 years ago and after following the lchf diet for the last 2 years I have been told by my GP that I am in remission and do not need medication as all my blood tests are in non diabetic range . I am positive it's my diet that has made me able to achieve this and I know if I resumed my old diet I would again be a "diabetic " so I don't think you are ever cured just able to control it
     
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  5. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think Low carb is always likely to accompany IF.

    I have one of my monthly 4 day fast starting this Sunday evening and I know my BG will plummet and stay low, but if I start messing around with increasing those carbs again, my BG will be up and running before the next month's fast.
     
  6. Jasperville

    Jasperville Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. My Hba1c is down to 6.3 with LCHF, but that is misleading. Most of the time, with a good few days, I can keep BG below 6, but if I have a bit of a binge Eg fish and chips or Cornish pasty and beans on recent holiday, I still go up to 15-18.

    I'm planning longer fasts, with just cream in coffee. However, I know there is a school of thought that even during a fast, you can get away with maybe 400-500 calories a day..............does anyone do this? Or, does anyone use the Insulin Index to allow themselves some foods that will not spike insulin too much? I know some protein can raise insulin as much as carbs, fat much less so, but lists of the Insulin Index I have seen online suggests certain foods may be Ok during a fast, such as peanuts (very low effect on raising insulin). Anyone else come across this?
     
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  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Dr Fung recommends only water, tea, coffee and bone broth as far as I recall. I do have the odd mouthful of cream if feeling strong pangs but apart from that nothing (my bone broth is a cheat Waitrose chicken consommé, 2.4g of carb per can). I think his fasting book is out in October so we might find more out then.
     
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  8. Canadian_cousin

    Canadian_cousin Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm someone who was overweight since they were four years old and I've spent my entire life trying to diet and being put on diets.I must've had metabolic syndrome since childhood. I was diagnosed diabetic15 years ago after years of being prediabetic for years,and generally was very compliant with diabetic advice given to me about six meals a day, lots of complex carbohydrates, low fat, low glycaemic index etc. but was still having a lot of problems, like sores on my toes , Cataracts,and skyrocketing numbers I was getting pretty desperate with a friend suggested LC HF. I took a month flailing about getting adapted to the LCHF diet, and then after three months of sticking to it my blood work came back and it was excellent - huge reduction in the evil things. Light and fluffy LTL's! Overall the cholesterol was so low that they cut my Crestor in half. Because I'm a heart patient and I wanted to try longer fasting, I was able to get an appointment with an affiliate of Dr. Fung She assures me that she believes that I can reverse my diabetes and get off a lot of my drugs over time. I can empty my fatty liver, I can reverse my insulin resistance. And I do sincerely believe her . My blood pressure is way down, and I sailed through a four day fast pretty balanced.I had to have fat bomb one night, and I used Bulkbuilders trick of Cream, which really works, And had some chocolate whipped cream with pecans, one of the suggestions that the fat fasters (some of who do eat about 500 cal a day). Before I tried that I spent about six weeks trying short and then longer intermittent fasts, to get the hang of it. There is a learning curve. Bulkbuilders suggestion of low-carb high-fat meal before is key! This is not just a diet for recently diagnosed diabetics. This is a lifestyle change for your metabolism so that you can decrease so many of the side effects. You have to be sensible, you have to go by the numbers that your blood work shows, but if it can work for me after being overweight for 60 years it can work for you today. It's a very flexible plan. I generally aim for about 50 carbs most day, but some days it could be 30 some days it could be 70. I like the looseness of the plan, and being able to adapt it to what's happening in my day that day. I am losing weight very steadily without going ketogenic, but everybody's different and you will have to learn your metabolism's boundaries. Sorry for being long-winded but truly it works, and I wish you the best of luck!
     
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  9. Jasperville

    Jasperville Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Very helpful, thanks
     
  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Judging by the case studies he quotes in his videos, book, blog and lectures, I think his advice is very well suited to diabetics with advanced T2.

    His fasting regimes (tailored to individuals and their individual needs) result in reduced need for insulin - background, first and second release. Any reduction in the need for insulin must be beneficial to a patient with insulin resistance, and T2 is characterised by insulin resistance.

    Even for a T2 with reduced numbers of effective beta cells, lowering insulin needs is going to help prolong and maintain the beta cells that are left, while simultaneously lowering insulin resistance. A win-win situation then.
     
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