Don't know what possessed me to read this...

[Caeseji]

Doing some trawling through Twitter and so on and came across this site: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com and for some reason I actually did some reading. Now this is when I hate having my self doubt and optimism being a little bit hindered due to someone else's opinions but it feels as if they're on a personal crusade against LCHF because it didn't work for them as a weight loss diet. Plus the fact that they keep talking about the fact that it isn't a cure compared to lets say the calorie restrictive Newcastle Diet that enabled some participants to regain beta cell functionality and it's just a dangerous form a management because you can't eat a small potato let's say. Comments advocating that the Newcastle Diet is better because it reduces pancreatic fat and that a LCHF diet just adds to the fat around the liver and pancreas instead of getting rid of it yet forgetting about ketosis being a state where your body is burning fat so it would probably give the same effect if you were in ketosis and fasting? Keeping dietary fat down and fasting would mean it burns it off I would think. There are so many success stories about low carb and the various issues that it solves no just Diabetes remission plus the fact we've seen people on LCHF being in remission for a while and having normal responses to carbs too if they indulged in them with their postprandial and even fasting numbers.

I don't know, maybe I just let myself get swept up into it or my brain was looking for a reason to doubt things. A lot of my health markers have improved on low carb and a lot of weight has been shed too, so I really shouldn't. Can't help it sometimes though in wondering if I am doing the right thing or I'm just letting big food/pharma get under my skin using credible yet bitter sources.

 

[bulkbiker]

I think your results speak for themselves. There are lots of anti low carbers out there...and even some here.. but don’t let them distract you. The ND has had limited success as the 24 month data shows.. keep calm and keto on.. you know it works...

 

[Caeseji]

I think your results speak for themselves. There are lots of anti low carbers out there...and even some here.. but don’t let them distract you. The ND has had limited success as the 24 month data shows.. keep calm and keto on.. you know it works...

I'll agree it doesn't work for everyone but I did notice that they quoted that humans have lived on a high-carb diet for generations but didn't bother to think about the fact that T2 diabetics are getting younger and younger now. Plus it does depend on how your ancestors developed and evolved. Yeah I'm not letting it get me down, the fact I could get to a 'normal' HB1AC in a single month of wonky non-keto low carb kind of speaks volumes. Thanks for the reminder if it works then why doubt? Keto on.

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @Caeseji,

I agree with @bulkbiker -- you've had good results with the low carb diet, so why change it.

Did you have a look at the Virta Health data regarding liver fat? They found that fatty liver improved after one year on a LCHF/ketogenic diet. Here is the link if you are interested: https://blog.virtahealth.com/one-year-nafld-outcomes-clinical-trial/

By the way, this is also my own experience -- GGT dropped from 37 at diagnosis (top end of the normal range) to 16 at the following liver test, where it has stayed until now.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if LCHF does not only improve liver fat, but also fat accumulation in the pancreas. The problem is that it is a bit difficult to measure pancreatic fat, Roy Taylor (who conducted the Newcastle study) uses some very specialized and, I believe, very expensive equipment to do so -- and probably equipment few other researchers have access too. This might be the reason that there are no comparable data on reducing fat in the pancreas using other methods than the Newcastle diet.

In terms of the blog, if they got the liver fat part wrong, I wonder what other information on this blog is poorly researched.

 

[Tophat1900]

What @bulkbiker said, if it works.... keep doing it.

 

[DCUKMod]

@Caeseji - if you have self doubt about what your way do eating is doing for you, in terms of body fat, then I suggest you consider investing in a decent set of scales, which give you a bit more feedback than straightforward weight.

There are loads around these days, but when I bought mine 5 years ago, I chose these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-BF511-Family-Composition-Monitor/dp/B00BBF8VEU I particularly wanted a scale with hand grasps, as I understand this significantly improves the accuracy of the whole body readings, due to more electrical impedence measurements (through the hands as well as the feet).

Mine show my body fat percentage and my visceral fat (VF) score. These days, as a slight old girl, I mainly note my waistband (getting tighter or looser), a scant look at my weight, but a firmer eye on the VF score.

They helped me a lot. Where, in our weight loss phase, the weight trickles off steadily week by week, the VF scoring takes a little longer to notch down (well, for me it did anyway, but I bought these when I had already lost a bit of weight), so a certain amount of patience is required.

Others have different machines - some more and some less expensive - that work well for them, so my own are just an example. I know @bulkbiker sometimes has some odd body fat percentage results with his own Omrons (can't recall the model number), so just applying full disclosure here.

Five years on, I still step on and off the scales every day, but do a full scan once a week - usually on a Sunday, but we all have to find our own path.

 

[Listlad]

On scales. I just call into my doctors surgery every couple of weeks or so and use theirs. They have a set in reception. Okay I dont strip down butt naked, but shoes off, everything out of pockets, jacket off. Then record the weight in my mobile phone. I make sure I use the same scales each time.

 

[Muddikins]

I wouldn't overthink it.
If you are achieving the goals you seek in terms of weight and blood sugar levels, and you are, then doesn't that make you the expert on your own health? A random person on social media is unlikely to know better than you and hasn't done what you have done so, frankly, who cares what they think they know.
What you learn on this forum is based on genuine and real personal experiences and lots of them and I will take that every time.
Plus, you aren't a rat

 

[jjraak]

I'll agree it doesn't work for everyone but I did notice that they quoted that humans have lived on a high-carb diet for generations but didn't bother to think about the fact that T2 diabetics are getting younger and younger now. Plus it does depend on how your ancestors developed and evolved..

Cow dung fact.

Ancestors didn't have a KFC/McDs/pizza on every corner or supermarkets stuffed with food aisles full of sugar stuffed "HEALTHY " Foods....

IF what your doing is having a positive effect, and it seems to suit YOU, why not carry on doing it.
IF it stops offering the benefits then check.out other ways .

I look into other areas of the forum, the ND diet, the veggie section..all have those it works for.

Mine is lchf .until it stops having a positive effect.

I'm looking for control, or at minimum a reduction in the damage high glucose/diabetes can do to ME.

I like but don't really care that others have found a different way or disagree with mine.

Until their opinion becomes more important then MY health, it's all...
as the youngers say "Just Chatting s*** "...

Stay true to the path that works for YOU.
Until it doesn't, no harm having a browse to see what else MIGHT be out there that's NEW or been REDISCOVERED...For IF that time ever comes.

 

[bulkbiker]

On scales. I just call into my doctors surgery every couple of weeks or so and use theirs. They have a set in reception. Okay I dont strip down butt naked, but shoes off, everything out of pockets, jacket off. Then record the weight in my mobile phone. I make sure I use the same scales each time.

Thats fine for a simple weight measurement but doesn't inform us much about body composition.

 

[ickihun]

Doing some trawling through Twitter and so on and came across this site: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com and for some reason I actually did some reading. Now this is when I hate having my self doubt and optimism being a little bit hindered due to someone else's opinions but it feels as if they're on a personal crusade against LCHF because it didn't work for them as a weight loss diet. Plus the fact that they keep talking about the fact that it isn't a cure compared to lets say the calorie restrictive Newcastle Diet that enabled some participants to regain beta cell functionality and it's just a dangerous form a management because you can't eat a small potato let's say. Comments advocating that the Newcastle Diet is better because it reduces pancreatic fat and that a LCHF diet just adds to the fat around the liver and pancreas instead of getting rid of it yet forgetting about ketosis being a state where your body is burning fat so it would probably give the same effect if you were in ketosis and fasting? Keeping dietary fat down and fasting would mean it burns it off I would think. There are so many success stories about low carb and the various issues that it solves no just Diabetes remission plus the fact we've seen people on LCHF being in remission for a while and having normal responses to carbs too if they indulged in them with their postprandial and even fasting numbers.

I don't know, maybe I just let myself get swept up into it or my brain was looking for a reason to doubt things. A lot of my health markers have improved on low carb and a lot of weight has been shed too, so I really shouldn't. Can't help it sometimes though in wondering if I am doing the right thing or I'm just letting big food/pharma get under my skin using credible yet bitter sources.

I cannot prove less fat around my liver but if I'm strict low carb my enzyme output from my liver is far far healthier. Enormously so, in fact.

 

[Member496333]

Load of old cobblers in my opinion. Generations of high-carb eating? Try millions of years of low-carb eating then get back to me.

Stick to the current plan if it’s working for you.

 

[Guzzler]

Generations have been living on high carb? So why is it that obesity, T2 and cardiac events have sky rocketed over the last 30-40 years? That is barely two generations. There is a correlation (granted, correlations are weak but nevertheless) between dietary guidelines in the post war years, the explosion of processed convenience foods in the 70s made with highly refined carbs, the advent of 'healthy' snacking and the still growing rates of Diabesity.

Our ancestors did not have 'A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play'. People cannot compare apples to oranges. Whereas, calorie restricted diets have been around a helluva lot longer, longer than the present epidemic and yet....

 

[bulkbiker]

came across this site: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com and for some reason I actually did some reading.

Ok your link led me to read up a bit more...
Wow she's a nasty one and no mistake. Fat shaming people mercilessly and has obviously got a "thing" about Gary Taubes.. I did find it interesting that she says
"and several years ago now lost a lot of weight on my third stint using a low carb diet. After losing that weight I hit the dreaded plateau so many reading this will probably be familiar with ... so I went seeking answers on the internet. "
So she plateaued and gave up and got all bitter and twisted.. I'd recommend avoiding...

 

[Listlad]

Thats fine for a simple weight measurement but doesn't inform us much about body composition.

How reliable are they though?

 

[bulkbiker]

How reliable are they though?

Again you are looking for trends not absolutes so even if they are out by 10% one hopes that may be a consistent 10%.

 

[Guzzler]

Just to add, at diagnosis a GP told me my liver function test results were dodgy [sic]. After four months of LCHF my LFT was back to within normal parameters. It may not have taken four months, that was just the length of time between tests.

 

[Caeseji]

Hi @Caeseji,

I agree with @bulkbiker -- you've had good results with the low carb diet, so why change it.

Did you have a look at the Virta Health data regarding liver fat? They found that fatty liver improved after one year on a LCHF/ketogenic diet. Here is the link if you are interested: https://blog.virtahealth.com/one-year-nafld-outcomes-clinical-trial/

By the way, this is also my own experience -- GGT dropped from 37 at diagnosis (top end of the normal range) to 16 at the following liver test, where it has stayed until now.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if LCHF does not only improve liver fat, but also fat accumulation in the pancreas. The problem is that it is a bit difficult to measure pancreatic fat, Roy Taylor (who conducted the Newcastle study) uses some very specialized and, I believe, very expensive equipment to do so -- and probably equipment few other researchers have access too. This might be the reason that there are no comparable data on reducing fat in the pancreas using other methods than the Newcastle diet.

In terms of the blog, if they got the liver fat part wrong, I wonder what other information on this blog is poorly researched.

Certainly seems to improve a lot more markers than just weight and blood glucose I have to say, it's a metric you cannot measure in a casual setting is pancreatic fat and it's more the results to your body that speak more than anything else. They did draw a lot of conclusions without any real evidence than what has been given to them. If your body is burning up fat then of course it'll be targeting as much as it can in the body. I'm choosing to keep optimistic about the diet so thank you Ziggy!

@Caeseji - if you have self doubt about what your way do eating is doing for you, in terms of body fat, then I suggest you consider investing in a decent set of scales, which give you a bit more feedback than straightforward weight.

There are loads around these days, but when I bought mine 5 years ago, I chose these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-BF511-Family-Composition-Monitor/dp/B00BBF8VEU I particularly wanted a scale with hand grasps, as I understand this significantly improves the accuracy of the whole body readings, due to more electrical impedence measurements (through the hands as well as the feet).

Mine show my body fat percentage and my visceral fat (VF) score. These days, as a slight old girl, I mainly note my waistband (getting tighter or looser), a scant look at my weight, but a firmer eye on the VF score.

They helped me a lot. Where, in our weight loss phase, the weight trickles off steadily week by week, the VF scoring takes a little longer to notch down (well, for me it did anyway, but I bought these when I had already lost a bit of weight), so a certain amount of patience is required.

Others have different machines - some more and some less expensive - that work well for them, so my own are just an example. I know @bulkbiker sometimes has some odd body fat percentage results with his own Omrons (can't recall the model number), so just applying full disclosure here.

Five years on, I still step on and off the scales every day, but do a full scan once a week - usually on a Sunday, but we all have to find our own path.

Might have to invest in those at some point actually, honestly I am losing more of my waist as time goes on so SOMETHING must be happening, down to a 44.5 inch waist now and I was just barely 46 early last week. Plus the fact that I haven't really started my exercise regime too has a lot to do with it I suppose. I appreciate the recommendation though, those would really help to put things in order for me.

Plus, you aren't a rat

As far as I know for now But you're right! I would rather listen to those that have tried and tested it and seeing my own results too come from all this makes it inspiring. People trying and failing and becoming bitter are not the greatest sources of information are they?

Load of old cobblers in my opinion. Generations of high-carb eating? Try millions of years of low-carb eating then get back to me.

Stick to the current plan if it’s working for you.

Generations have been living on high carb? So why is it that obesity, T2 and cardiac events have sky rocketed over the last 30-40 years? That is barely two generations. There is a correlation (granted, correlations are weak but nevertheless) between dietary guidelines in the post war years, the explosion of processed convenience foods in the 70s made with highly refined carbs, the advent of 'healthy' snacking and the still growing rates of Diabesity.

Our ancestors did not have 'A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play'. People cannot compare apples to oranges. Whereas, calorie restricted diets have been around a helluva lot longer, longer than the present epidemic and yet....

Yep that is true, it's only really in the recent decades we have had such an obesity issue hitting us like a train. When we have children becoming type-2 from the tender age of 3 it says a lot about the state of diet and how our genetics are being warped. Those that died in the low-carb days were because of environmental factors such as animals and so on plus diseases/illnesses and extreme temperatures whereas now our own bodies are rebelling! One has to wonder why... Oh... Thanks for that addition too Guzzler, I bet mine has normalised considering how well I feel now instead of constantly having issues and that along with what @ickihun really says a lot for the benefits to the liver function!

(Also Jim reading 'Load of old cobblers' gave me such a grin)

Ok your link led me to read up a bit more...
Wow she's a nasty one and no mistake. Fat shaming people mercilessly and has obviously got a "thing" about Gary Taubes.. I did find it interesting that she says
"and several years ago now lost a lot of weight on my third stint using a low carb diet. After losing that weight I hit the dreaded plateau so many reading this will probably be familiar with ... so I went seeking answers on the internet. "
So she plateaued and gave up and got all bitter and twisted.. I'd recommend avoiding...

It's what I noticed as well, there is so much bitterness and hatred in there and just outright attacking scientific data whilst picking on the smallest issues instead of looking at the whole study as a whole. I've fully deleted that from my history now and just going to keep going on. I wonder what will happen if she keeps on this path, probably will end up joining us! Plus sometimes obesity and weight gain is related to other problems so I wonder if she ever looked into that!

Whew that was a fun time but thank you all for the reassurance there and for looking into it for me, I quite frankly would not be as well off without this community and support.

 

[jjraak]

I say don't worry about others, like that @Caeseji

People do get engrossed and quite provocative in THEIR choice of "lifestyle"

be it food, meds or otherwise.

Happens on here to some extent, not everyone is a cool little Fonzie when others disagree with THEIR choices.

Don't make em bad, but over enthusiastic, maybe ... and unwilling to listen to differing viewpoints.

Life's to short to hate those with hate in their hearts, , but plenty long enough to screen out those who are slightly toxic.

Live and let live my friend...

 

[Listlad]

You should find your waste size drops as you build muscle. At least that happened to me when I hit the gym in earnest a few years back. Legs and arms will tone up too. You will notice it visibly. I don’t know if this is correct but I assume that what’s going on that way on the outside will reflect changes on the inside of the body, to a certain degree. Might be wrong on that last bit...