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Dr Haroun Gajraj: Why I've Ditched Statins for Good

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by borofergie, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. ))Denise((

    ))Denise(( Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I took simvastatin for about 18 months, they took my cholesterol down from 5.2 to 3.0. After reading about them and that they are not proven for women. I stopped taking them. My cholesterol has gone back up but I'm not bothered. I think it is something that I need especially as it is implicated in conversion of sunlight to Vitamin D.

    Even if there was a case for me to take statins, I think that I was on too high a dose as I think 3.0 is way too low.

    I talked to my GP about my views on statins and he said that I should take them but that it was my decision and I said I wasn't taking them. He then found a box on his computer screen and ticked that I won't take them. We have the discussion about me taking them on an annual basis, but I decline.

    I'd like to add that I have taken part in medical research where I had a CT scan of my heart and the cardiologist said I had no calcium deposits and everything is working well.
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and may well even be non deliberate; I'd think it unlikely that these doctors leave the room with a swish of their black capes whilst cackling 'Mwah-ha-ha-haaa' thinking another terrible crime has been expertly carried out. That's why double blind studies are so important because of the recognised risk of bias which is a normal human condition; we all pull for our own world view after all...

    On the statistical thing it seems that this epidemiological approach to medicine is all very well when looking at contagious disease in a population but not at more subtle (non-contagious) illnesses like heart disease with multiple, not very well understood, risk factors. With the spread of measles it makes sense that the entire population receives immunisations but that is just not the case when you are looking at CVD especially as there seems such **** poor analysis of the causes of it. Eggs! For god's sake! They think eggs cause heart disease and expect me to take them seriously on anything else!? I can see how the very damaging fear of immunisations arises perhaps in parallel with this declining respect for the medical profession as a whole.

    Best

    Dillinger
     
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  3. hunnymummy1968

    hunnymummy1968 Type 2 · Newbie

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    10745, member: 60109"]The biggest irony here is that 4.8 may well be too LOW. There's data showing that the healthy range is something like 5.2-6.2 mmol/l



    Satins havn't been shown to do anything help women at all. It also appears to be the case that healthy cholesterol levels in women are somewhat higher than in men. Also the guidelines take no account of gender (or age).



    LDL particle size (and count) might well be a better indication of CVD risk. But the tests typically carried out are useless for determining this.[/quote]
    Thank you for that I
    Well yes, I also thought it was low too. I've never had any problems with my cholesterol level before, so like I say, I was totally shocked when she said about statins. I realise now, after reading this, what she was attempting to do. What has also given me a jolt is what was said in this thread about not giving statins to women in general, especially when going through the menopause, which is where I'm at at the moment. That is more than a little scary, because your gp is supposed to look after you isn't she........? .Obviously not. I am so grateful for the insight into this, it has inspired me to go on and do more research into my condition, and how to alleviate some of the symptoms. Perhaps I'll do a better job than my paid, professional diabetic team...!
     
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  4. hunnymummy1968

    hunnymummy1968 Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hi all. I apologise if my post or replies are a little all over the place, but I am totally new to forum stuff, and I have no idea how to do things. I hope to be able to pick things up as I go along. Thanks for the comments, it has given me some inspiration. :))
     
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  5. Ria

    Ria Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  6. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    There's data showing that a healthy range is 5.2-6.2. But this is for men rather than women.

    Even less reason for you to be touching these kind of drugs.
     
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  7. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    There's something called the "herd effect" which can mean that immunisations of far less than an entire population can halt the spread of an infection.

    The whole "cholesterol thing" appears to have started with it being fairly easy to measure levels of this (base) steroid. Total cholesterol is a very poor proxy for lipoprotein counts and size distribution, which actually appears to be an actual risk factor. (LDL-C guestimated from TC and HDL-C isn't much better.) The really ironic thing is that pattern B LDL particles contain less cholesterol than pattern A.
     
    #27 mpe, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:35 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2014
  8. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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  9. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    I'm actually worried because my triglyceride count came in at 0.6 without statins... And this is too low (supposedly) but I cant fi d any advice anywhere how to raise it. My good cholesterol was off tbe scale the other way being good.. And ldl good....

    How do you raise triglcerides... These readings are all after being off statins again for 3 months...cos of bad heart palpitations.. Would they betorally out ofmy system?


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  10. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Why do you think that level is too low? According to my test results, they should be under 1.3 and no lower limit is set (unlike HDL which has a range of 1.1-3.5)

    I checked on the internet, but medical conditions that cause problematically low triglycerides appear to be a genetic inability to absorb fats or hyperthyroidism. I think you'd know if you had either of those.

    Edited to add this link: http://www.triglycerideslevel.net/what-is-low-triglycerides-level/
     
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  11. Ria

    Ria Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  12. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    Since "triglycerides" are liver synthesized fats. You'd up them by having your liver make more of them. The two most common reasons for hepatic lipogenesis are to get rid of excess sugars (from dietary carbohydrates) or because the diet dosn't provided sufficient amounts of needed fatty acids. (As with sugars polyunsaturated fatty acids tend only to be useful as "fuel" for the human body. )

    So in order to increase this reading you'd need to eat a LFHC diet, the kind of diet everyone has been encouraged to eat for the last 30 odd years. If you are already eating such a diet then you probably need to see a liver specialist PDQ. (Satins can cause liver damage.)

    If on the other hand you are not eating sugars to excess and eating sufficient fat (mostly saturated and monounsaturated), which would be a typical LCHF diet, then there may be nothing to worry about.
     
  13. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean HDL-C rather than HDL? (Since measuring HDL is not easy.)

    I'd tend to take anything without a lower limit with a pinch of salt unless there's good evidence for it being non essential.
    Since there are too many situations like salt and LDL-C which are essential where lower limits of zero
     
  14. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Hi mpe

    I have had skimmed milk for years and butter, rarely cheese but sometimes on cheese. I do eat quiche n salads. Rately red meat, sometimes chicken. I eat somewhere between 70-100g carb a day. 2glasses red wine fri n sat nights each night. I also have very high b12 now which was previously so low I had injections but the injections stopped 4 years ago and since remained in 2-300's till Jan when they suddenly jumped to 1200+ (no supplements as I was actually waiting for them to drop further to get injections reinstated. My mean platelet is also above the upper level of 11...my diabetic consultant told them to test for lymphoma if my thyroid and hormones came back normal.. Which they did. So now have to go back for another blood test.
    I read somewhere that I should have more fat... But cant find the article now. Wait to see my gp is 3 weeks.
    I am size 10 and quite muscly through my work.
    They put exclamation marks against serum triglycerides and serum hdl cholesterol which had upper range limit of 1.6 and mine was 1.9...


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  15. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    DD
    Obviously talk to your doctor.
    . For comparison my lab results give these reference ranges. They do give an upper level for HDL but it's above 1.9mmol/l.
    trigs 0.40-1.54 mmol/l
    HDLC >1.40 mmol/l in women and >1.15mmol/l in men and women post menopause (upper level 2.07mmol/l)
     
  16. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Thnx Phoenix.

    I am lucky as I have a great endo and haemo cousin as well., so will get answers, just stop me thin about it in meantime though....

    Thnx for reassuring me ref blood ranges... X


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  17. Ailin

    Ailin Type 2 · Newbie

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    I yoo stopped taking statins as they were making my muscles weak and ache, then my friend said statins made her legs so weak that she cannot walk very well and has to use a wheelchair. I also asked my Dr to take me off metformin because I read several articles that said Metformin is one of 7 most deadly drugs in the world! He said..." Its the best Medication for your condition" so kill me why don't you I said! Can anyone help with this.... I often have pains in my whole leg... Its as if the large vein in my leg was a bare electric wire and the current is switched on. Well, that's the only way I can explain it! I'm female 67yr old .
     
  18. exfoden

    exfoden Type 2 · Member

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    I Have Stopped taking any statins,been off them now for about 4 months, I sleep better, I feel a lot better, don't have as much pain in my joints as I did have,i now feel like doing things again, as far as I am concerned keep the things,keep taking them and u will end up like a zombie, im type 2 and the Really best thing is I can go out and not worry if im near a loo ,HAD BEEN ON STATINS FOR ABOUT 4 YEARS I could not sit with out pain or lay down in bed[on my side or back] it got to the point were I had to be helped up, ok had my say,and why is the so called health minister not reading this forum and o, and you guys will know what I mean I CAN GET IT UP AGAIN,lol
     
  19. exfoden

    exfoden Type 2 · Member

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    I too had pains in my legs,told the Doctor he gave me Viagra said it was poor circulation
     
  20. clearviews

    clearviews · Well-Known Member

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    Finally found time to return to the doctor to get blood tests done after 2 years. Have been looking after my parents. Mum has dementia and Dad seems to be heading that way but has issues he failed to attend to over the last several decades...massively enlarged prostate (benign), double hernia and peripheral neuropathy (not diabetic).
    My GP is away on extended leave. New young thing from Jordan. I was convinced I had gout as my knees were causing pain especially after alcohol and had been running high blood glucose figures in the mornings.
    Huge surprise as my A1c was 5.1 (32). Think I have issues with my meter!! Test solution on it's way.
    Everything else was fantastic except the new young thing did not like my combined cholesterol of 6.2. He did not go into the individual LDL, HDL and Tris but I asked for the print out. He asked if I had a sheet on reducing cholesterol and I said I hadn't so he gave me one. Told him I wouldn't take statins and he said that was fine and would I like to see a dietician. No thanks sez I. They spout the opposite of what I eat and looking at the sheet I said that this seemed to be along the same lines. No egg yolks, no sat fats, cheese, cream, milk, butter, coconut oil, chicken skin, prawns, salami, bacon......... well that just about takes care of 80% of what I eatQ!
    Until I show diabetic figures in anything I refuse to limit my cholesterol figures to a diabetic's and even then the evidence is not there for heart disease simply on cholesterol figures that are not backed by evidence.
    Besides I have 7 chooks (Australian for chickens) who live in my garden and are grass fed along with snails and especially prawn shells. What the heck am I to do with all their eggs?????
     
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