Dr Neal Barnard 'Reverse Diabetes Diet'

I don't know the book, but I would very much agree with your last sentence.

My Type 2 was caught early. I've got my BG levels down pretty close to non-diabetic levels (unless I do something stupid ) on a low-carb diet, and I eat plenty of natural, unprocessed fats and oils. It s a lifestyle that suits me; it doesn't suit everyone.

I believe that Type 2 can be "reversed", and it can be kept "reversed", with care and constant vigilance. I don't believe it can be cured.

Have a good read round the forum, and ask questions - there's lots of experienced, helpful people on here. Welcome!

Viv 8)

1) Insulin resistance in the cells is present when there is an excess of fatty acids in the cell so what Barnard says is on the face of it true. It isn't a simple direct relationship between dietary fat and fatty acids though. Some fat is also always needed in the diet (you couldn't get fat soluble vits without it and omega 3 and 6 fatty acids are essential as they can't be synthesised by the body. Eating too little fat can be detrimental to health . In the mainstream eating too much of certain types of fats (trans and saturated) is also considered detrimental (though you will find that there are some who disagree that sat fats are less healthy)
This article (and others in the 6 part series) is by an obesity researcher at Washington University and summarises mainstream thinking/research on the causes of insulin resistance.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2 ... .html#more
2) Don't know anything much about the Budwig protocol except that it is a form of alternative medicine for cancer without an accepted evidence base
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Budwig

3) definitely agree about the use of any sort of 'frankenfood' . It is perfectly possible to eat a varied vegetarian/vegan diet without their use. ( many of the children I taught were from the Gujarat, area with a rich vegetarian cuisine. They certainly didn't eat any faux meats and I had some fantastic meals at a restaurant owned by one of the parents.)

Personally, I hate the term "reversing diabetes". It implies a cure when I don't believe there is one. Something like "neutralising diabetes" would be better, because that's what we do. we moderate our life style through diet and exercise to achieve near non-diabetic blood sugar levels and thus "neutralise" most of the effects we would otherwise experience.

Question here about chicken. Dr. Bernard says no as even Chicken breast has 23% fat. Calorieking.com and many other sites say it has about 2% fat. Can anyone explain this difference in opinion.

yzablocki said:

Question here about chicken. Dr. Bernard says no as even Chicken breast has 23% fat. Calorieking.com and many other sites say it has about 2% fat. Can anyone explain this difference in opinion.

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Skin on vs skin off?

The heart/diet/fats myth has been well and truly busted. All industrially made vegetable oils have proven to be inflammatory so sticking with natural fats such as animal fats, olive oil, avocado etc is a wiser choice not only for those with Diabetes but everyone. Getting back to to a real food diet is imo key to improving health whether you choose a vegan/vegetarian diet or not. My rule of thumb is that if I do not recognise an ingredient in a commercially produced food beit because it has a coded number or a chemical name then I donot buy it.

yzablocki said:

Question here about chicken. Dr. Bernard says no as even Chicken breast has 23% fat. Calorieking.com and many other sites say it has about 2% fat. Can anyone explain this difference in opinion.

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Dr Neal Barnard is a plant food only activist and has been shown a few times to embroider the truth to suit his agenda.

Dont all researchers embroider the truth so it fits their hypothesis more neatly? A tweak to the exclusion criteria here, ignoring bits of inconvenient data there, along with a little massaging of the figures for good measure - thats why I dont have complete faith in any of them or their approaches

If your Granny wouldn't recognize it don't eat it
If it has more than 5 ingredients don't eat it
Rather tongue in cheek but in principle ??
CAROL

yzablocki said:

Question here about chicken. Dr. Bernard says no as even Chicken breast has 23% fat. Calorieking.com and many other sites say it has about 2% fat. Can anyone explain this difference in opinion.

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Is one of them talking about percentage of calories from fat and the other talking about percentage by weight?

Dark Horse said:

Is one of them talking about percentage of calories from fat and the other talking about percentage by weight?

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I dont think so. he says its 23% fat. this is the statement "The leanest beef is 29% fat. Chicken is 23% fat. Beans are 4% fat. ". if thats right then, yest i should not eat beef or chicken, but if its just 2%, then how bad could it be to have grilled chicken breast a few times a week

bulkbiker said:

Dr Neal Barnard is a plant food only activist and has been shown a few times to embroider the truth to suit his agenda.

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The main problem I have with the Whole Food Plant people (WFPB) is that they are very quick to extoll the miracle cures offered by their high carb diets, but seem to be totally unble to back their statements up with independent peer reviewed scientific evidence. I believe that the theory is that a high carb diet works to reverse diabetes but it must be an Ultra Low fat diet. I cannot find any evidence in the proper archives that provides any proof of concept for this, and it seems to rely on a few vociferous guru's who seem to earn a mint off their followers..

This is what Quackwatch has to say on the subject.
https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/vegan.html

Guzzler said:

The heart/diet/fats myth has been well and truly busted. All industrially made vegetable oils have proven to be inflammatory so sticking with natural fats such as animal fats, olive oil, avocado etc is a wiser choice not only for those with Diabetes but everyone. Getting back to to a real food diet is imo key to improving health whether you choose a vegan/vegetarian diet or not. My rule of thumb is that if I do not recognise an ingredient in a commercially produced food beit because it has a coded number or a chemical name then I donot buy it.

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"I donot buy it"? Is this a secret code or were you thinking of something else?

It can be very confusing. I have seen online some saying you can reverse Type 2 on bananas. I have also seen ca low carber go vegan and a vegetarian go low carb. If I were trying to persuade you to follow my version of LCHF I would repeat what I pm’d a member recently. The only things I missed out were the berries, nuts, full fat yogurt pictures. You can then see how this compares to the food you have described:

My regime is to eat one meal a day usually either 2 or 3 times a week (Monday to Wednesday) with the meal at circa 16:00 to 17:00, the rest of the week 2 meals a day with 16 / 6 intermittent fasting, breakfast 11:00, dinner 16:00 to 17:00. Life can sometimes get in the way such as meals out so my evening meal might be around 18:30, and if I have a network meeting, my breakfast might be earlier.

Breakfasts either:
Bacon / Sausage / Eggs / Tomatoes / Mushrooms or

Cashews (small amount), Brazil, Hazelnut, Almond, Pecan, Macadamia and Walnuts, with Raspberries, Blackberries, Strawberries, Blueberries, Red Currants, 2 scopes of full fat Greek Yogurt, with sprinkled spices (ginger, cinnamon, cayenne pepper, nutmeg), pumpkin and flax seeds

Meals look like below:

Oldvatr said:

"I donot buy it"? Is this a secret code or were you thinking of something else?

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A Freudian slip, perhaps?

Anonymous said:

Dr Neal Barnards 'reverse Diabetes diet' book states 'fat inside cells interfere with Insulin's action' and recommends all oils [inc. extra virgin olive oils] be kept to an absolute minimum or preferably zero however, the Budwig protocol uses Cottage Cheese and Flaxseed oil to make cell walls 'elastic' after Trans-fats have them rigid and impermeable.
In his book Dr.Barnard also recommends using commercially bought Veggie Sausage, Veggie Bacon, Veggie Burgers etc, however, the list of ingredients in these products is far from healthy - surely these can't be good for you? :shock:
I'm confused as to which protocol is right or wrong but anyone who advocates the use of commercial Veggie meat substitutes full of additives and artificial ingredients leaves me in doubt. :evil:

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Apparently Joanna Budwig says it is the sulfa in the cheese that is the active ingredient. The cheese must be ultra low fat variety, and the flaxseed oil must be 100% pure with no added toxins present, Also she advocates the use of a special blender apparatus since commercial blenders and mixers introduce too much air into the mix which oxidizes the oil making it poisonous.
Sounds like a load of hogwash to me.

Oldvatr said:

The main problem I have with the Whole Food Plant people (WFPB) is that they are very quick to extoll the miracle cures offered by their high carb diets, but seem to be totally unble to back their statements up with independent peer reviewed scientific evidence. I believe that the theory is that a high carb diet works to reverse diabetes but it must be an Ultra Low fat diet. I cannot find any evidence in the proper archives that provides any proof of concept for this, and it seems to rely on a few vociferous guru's who seem to earn a mint off their followers..

This is what Quackwatch has to say on the subject.
https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/vegan.html

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Have a look at results from the Ma Pi diet. (interesting that one of the first results I got on google is one of my own posts which mentioned the gut biome and there is a recent paper on that) I don't give any credance to the Ying/Yang origins of the diet but it is an extremely high carb/fibre-low fat, vegan diet. The results of various small trials have been excellent. There are caveats but there are similar caveats for many of the low carb trials. For myself, I would find it an almost impossible diet to stick to but then I would find it hard to stick to some of the diets followed by people on here.

yzablocki said:

I dont think so. he says its 23% fat. this is the statement "The leanest beef is 29% fat. Chicken is 23% fat. Beans are 4% fat. ". if thats right then, yest i should not eat beef or chicken, but if its just 2%, then how bad could it be to have grilled chicken breast a few times a week

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@daisy1 for newbie intro.

Yzablocki, you don't say what type you are or what if any, medication you are on.
You don't say what you currently eat or what, if any, dietary restrictions you have.
Knowing your HbA1c could also help us to help you.

First, though, can you explain why you shouldn't eat lean meat because it has some fat in it?
What dietary advice are you working to?
Presumably not vegetarian/vegan as you are contemplating eating chicken several times a week.

Welcome to the forum. Pull up a chair and dig in.
If you are recently diagnosed then take a deep breath and chill.
You will be overwhelmed with information for quite a while, and may have to modify some long held assumptions.
However diabetes can be managed very well, with patience.

LittleGreyCat said:

@daisy1 for newbie intro.

Yzablocki, you don't say what type you are or what if any, medication you are on.
You don't say what you currently eat or what, if any, dietary restrictions you have.
Knowing your HbA1c could also help us to help you.

First, though, can you explain why you shouldn't eat lean meat because it has some fat in it?
What dietary advice are you working to?
Presumably not vegetarian/vegan as you are contemplating eating chicken several times a week.

Welcome to the forum. Pull up a chair and dig in.
If you are recently diagnosed then take a deep breath and chill.
You will be overwhelmed with information for quite a while, and may have to modify some long held assumptions.
However diabetes can be managed very well, with patience.

Click to expand...

T2. diagnosed 2.5 years ago. was on 4 medications which brought my fasting sugar down to 170. not really the answer. Im not obese just a bit overweight (5"7 185 lbs.). 6 weeks ago I dropped all medications and im on a 700 calorie diet. (slightly mimicking the diet of post by-pass patients). i dropped 18 lbs and my fasting sugar is 140. not good enough, but at least no meds. 2 more weeks of this diet and then i need to figure out what is next. Don't want to go back on the meds.
Im asking the above question because im leaning towards a low fat diet and possible a high carb vegan diet, but i dont want to give up chicken breasts if it has only 2-3% fat. i will give it up if we are talking 23% fat.
If it is low in fat, why is it so necessary to give it up? is it so much worse than avocado?