DR

speedboy21 said:

Hi

So I went to my Dr to ask about the liquid/shake diet that can be prescribed on the NHS as highlighted in the News.

1, He said he knows nothing about it and I was talking rubbish
2, He took by blood sugar it was 14.9 he said "he has seen higher"

Does this one just not care any more? Surely he should be helping me not just saying these things fobbing me off. I am not sure what to do now??

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Change your Dr? No seriously your Dr isn’t helping you, one he’s not keeping up to date with latest developments and two his opinion of your blood sugar level is dismissive. You know it’s not good and you’re trying to help yourself. Is there another Dr in the practice you can see or failing that a change of surgery might be in order?

@speedboy21
What on earth are you eating to get blood sugars of 14.9?

speedboy21 said:

Hi

So I went to my Dr to ask about the liquid/shake diet that can be prescribed on the NHS as highlighted in the News.

1, He said he knows nothing about it and I was talking rubbish
2, He took by blood sugar it was 14.9 he said "he has seen higher"

Does this one just not care any more? Surely he should be helping me not just saying these things fobbing me off. I am not sure what to do now??

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GP's generally have a lot of diseases to keep up with, and little time to do it in. I'm honestly not surprised he'd not heard of the Newcastle Diet and its contemporaries. The "I've seen higher" does sound alarming... More like he's just given up on his T2 patients. Which isn't what you need right now. Either get another doctor, or and I'm not sure if I'm going against guidelines with this one, sort it out for yourself, (with our help, if you want). While I have a load of other issues, like many here I'm a T2 24/7, so I'm more invested in it than the average GP who is swamped with patients and very little time and funding to do much of anything besides the bare essentials. I'm just one of a great many.

@bulkbiker asked a good question: what have you been eating to hit a 14+? Can we help, or is it mostly down to the stress of seeing the doc?

If there's anything we can do, let us know.

speedboy21 said:

My blood sugar last night was 20

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Okay.... That's.... High. Can you tell us what you're eating? By now you've probably read it a hundred times here, but carbohydrates, most of them anyway, turn to glucose once ingested. If you're hitting such numbers I strongly recommend you cut down on carbs, or even cut them altogether. Because this is doing actual, real damage to everything in your body, really.

speedboy21 said:

I suffer from depression and anxiety and some days I eat too much and rubbish. Yesterday I had roast dinner with yorkshire and a small bag of jazzles for desert Nothing else all day. at 9pm with the sweats I checked it and it was 20.7

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Yeah, okay, I see how that can happen. Borderliner with anxiety and clinical depression right here, so I hear 'ya. When I have a tendency to eat more than I should, I just make sure most of what I have around to munch on is low or no carb. Cheeses, olives, tuna-straight-from-the-can, pork scratchings, cold cuts, and loads and loads of tea to keep my mouth occupied. That way I can still pig out and not spike my bloodsugars. Might be an idea for you too?

bulkbiker said:

@speedboy21
What on earth are you eating to get blood sugars of 14.9?

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Tere is no disagreement that 14.9 and subsequent reports of over 20 BGs are harmfull but it is not always food that can spike sugars - for example I have seen 13 &14s when fasting.
Yes food intake is an essential and sensible starting point when trying to undestand & manage high BG’s but it should not be the default assumption that diet is the sole driver - that can come close t patient blaming

Hi @speedboy21

Are your readings regularly this high?

Going back to your doc visit, and his lack of knowledge about the liquid diet, were you talking about the Newcastle Diet which has been trialled to see if it can be rolled out across the NHS as a type 2 dietary intervention?

While it is a pity that your doc hasn’t heard of it, it is also quite understandable.
The project has been trialled in a (comparatively) small number of surgeries, since the healthcare staff involved in the study receive special training. The trial has been ongoing for a while now, and while there have been interim updates, the final report isn’t yet out.

So your doc may not be informed on it, but that is no reason why you can’t read up about it yourself, and decide whether to pursue it. All the necessary information on the protocol, and the medical support that should be provided, is available on the Newcastle University website. If you have a good look, and read threads on this forum about people's personal experiences (both good and bad), then you can make an informed decision about whether it is something you want to do.

One other thing I would suggest, is that you consider that maybe whatever diet choice you make, the most important thing would be to address the anxiety and depression that is causing you to eat foods that drive up your blood glucose.
Doing a short term liquid meal replacement diet may drop your blood glucose significantly, and it may reduce weight (if that is what you want), but it won’t address the root cause, I am sorry to say. If anxiety and depression prevent you from adhering to a ‘normal’ food regime, the same will apply during and after a short term change in diet such as you are considering, with the added stresses of blood glucose fluctuations and hunger.

If your doc is unwilling to support you with referrals for the kind of support you need, then would strongly urge you to seek a second opinion, before embarking on any drastic diet changes. I wouldn’t advise doing this without emotional or medical support.

Boo1979 said:

for example I have seen 13 &14s when fasting.

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Do you mean you have seen 13's and 14 as FBG or when on an extended fast?
And as you often tell us you are an atypical diabetic...

bulkbiker said:

Do you mean you have seen 13's and 14 as FBG or when on an extended fast?
And as you often tell us you are an atypical diabetic...

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On repeated 24 hr fasts maintaining low carb eating - initially the numbers go down, then both BG and ketones rise on a daily basis - both FBG and during the day
In the UK where T2 diagnosis is so hit and miss / unscientific there is really no such thing as a typical T2 - much of the “theory” and info given on this site and others about what a “typical” T2 is and how their bodies react is largely based on North American writers who see and use a T2 diagnosis as being a disease based on / reflective of chronic hyperinsuleamia - in the UK situation where no asessment of circulating or fasting insulin is ever made when making a diagnosis of T2, then the assertions about what is / isnt “typical” for a T2 , particularly those based from an analysis of N American based literature / opinion are rather meaningless if applied en masse
Edited to add
I think the only generalisations that can be made about T2 in the Uk is that
1) it is a diagnosis most commonly, but not exclusively, given to overweight middle aged patients
2) as with all forms of diabetes, a reduced carb diet is beneficial, alongside medication when Clinically required

Your doctor is an idiot and should be struck-off for dismissing 14.9mmol/L

I would make an official complaint. I’m sick to death of hearing these stories of dismissive behaviour and downright dangerous advice from people who are paid handsomely to look out for the health of their patients.

Very much depends on the context in which it was said
“14.9, thats nothing!, Ive seen higher”
and
“14.9, thats high and unhealthy but still something we can do x or try y for” Dont get too stressed, Ive seen higher readings that have come down to a healthy number in * months”
Have totally different meanings

Speedboy21 the shakes are a rolling NHS England pilot where they are available in certain areas then its rolled out nationally. If your gp hasn't heard of it then they must not be in the pilot yet so your best bet would be to contact NHS England and ask when it will be available locally. Then you can ask again when it's available. Good luck

Incidentally there are studies showing that extreme caloric restriction decreases BMR (basal metabolic rate) sometimes permanently. This is why 96% of calorie restricted diets fail long term as the dieter bounces back and regains everything plus more. I don’t doubt that this diet might be capable of temporarily reversing diabetes, but I’d be very concerned about the long term effects and what happens afterwards. Particularly since we know that diabetes can be reversed without all this typical restrictive calorie shenanigans.

Just my thoughts. I’d tread carefully.

speedboy21 said:

He just said. Its 14.9 i'v seen higher. Then just carried on with the other thing I wanted to discuss with him. No help nothing saying don't worry. I thought it was going to be bad when he just spent the first couple of minutes checking emails on his phone before speaking to me!!!!

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...He did WHAT?!

Seriously, it might be time to get a new doc. Or make a complaint. Either way.... You shouldn't be treated like this (Or get lack of treatment, actually).