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dr's driving me bonkers

webmd.com give some really good information on fibromyalgia and it's treatments and give regular newsletters on managing it. I have personally found it invaluable. I can't look at other website forums regarding fibro, as they are soooooo depressing. I think you may find it useful as well as this site to look up the website mentioned, as it may help you.
 
donnellysdogs said:
IGiving figures of 9-ish for feeling depression is a buit misleading, as depression is a big part of fibromyalgia and the way our brains operate. I have had hba1c of 6.7 and still feeling depressed- I could have a level of 5 and be far more depressed if I wasn't on my fibro medicines.
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Hi Donnellysdogs, I think you misread what I said - that was my hba1c not my general readings, which were far higher than 9 to get that hba1c, and I was talking about me personally... but I also read a medical report 3yrs ago which charted the risks of clinical depression against hba1c and whilst I can't remember them all (obviously) I do remember that my risk at diagnosis was 44% due to my hba1c.

Not all diabetics are depressed at diagnosis though - I know that, definitely, and it's obvious - but I've also spoken to someone on this forum privately who was the same as me and when I say demented, I mean, truly demented..... so some of us are sensitive to a high hba1c, and some aren't. I'm not talking about one high reading either - it's the hba1c that counts, ie long-term high readings. Since Megan has been speaking about depression and generally linking it to her long term control and higher readings (that's how I read her posts, anyway), I thought it was well worth pointing out that for some people at least, there is a true connection, and she might well not be imagining things. Maybe I misread, in a hurry - you can see from the time I first posted that it was very, very late.
 
I've read academic articles which show a significant association between diabetics' depression and HbA1c, but they found that the tighter the control (lower HbA1c) the more depression they found. It doesn't surprise me at all that there are links with depression and higher hbA1c though, because after all 'depression' is a term which covers a lot of different things; and everyone is different.
I've also read academic articles which show that once a 'diabetic' (didn't say which type) gets depressed they are more likely to relapse than a non-diabetic. No explanation though as to whether that's a chemical thing or just a feature of living with a complicated annoying chronic condition. Or, indeed, as with Megan, the stress of having to cope with ignorant health professionals who give confusing advice.

Anyway... you all inspire me, which personally I find makes life easier than if you weren't here on the forum....have a nice smiley face. :mrgreen: (actually I still don't know what this green icon is supposed to mean...)
 
its good to read what you all have to say. i find it really interesting. am taking all the advise. and am now onto the DAFNE site too, so feel a hope for better support and advice. have only been on the increased dose of antidepressents for a week but do feel a bit better. very tired. when i do get a burst of energy i do inevitably over do it!....like strimming the grass!....i paid for that one later...but i don't want to not be able to do things for myself...theres no point relying on anyone else....its not a habit i'm used to ..

its not sunny today where i am and i've just printed out a huge report to see what i can do to keep my license to stay where i am for the duration of my childrens education......but there is still time to smile and spread a little ray of sunshine! :D
 
I know there is a lot out there about diabetes and depression....well known that diabetics get depression, however in your posting you mentioned about coming off antidepressant tablets asap...I just wanted to state that with fibromyalgia you are unlikely to ever come off tablets for depression or pain.Also, just from my experience and how my body works only-I found that citilopram and dufloxitine and gabapentin and lyrica and all the other antidepresants I have been subjected to have all actually lowered my BG levels, and have caused me to have to play around with all my basals and bolus's on my insulin pump on every single changeover from all the different cocktail of drugs i have been prescribed.

If indeed Megan has fibromyalgia, then it can take a long while to get medication that works to alleviate the pain and depression, and then of course the diabetes as well is always there. My diabetes control is actually better when I have my depression sorted out, so coming off antidepressants as soon as possible etc may not be the best way to get better BG's.

Fibro and diabetes is not easy to balance. Diabetes is unseen unless getting out injections etc. Fibromyalgia is even more hidden....people can tell you that you look fantastic-but you feel so ****. Other times people can tell you that you look like **** and looking so tired.

In all honesty I sued to get thoughts in my head all the time that I was just so fed up of living (not that I would do anything about it), I have just not wanted to live and be here and thought so much that my husband would have an easier life without me. I had these thoughts as a constant in my head, all day, everyday-even on various cocktails of antidepressants. Now I have the right antidepressant which also gives me some pain relief, those thoughts aren't in my head all day, everyday,24/7/365. Coping with going on to a pump as well was not easy because my brain is constantly under working and feels like fog, and with difficulties remembering, so that also has been hard.

Fibro people are not easily understood by doctors, and it is very hard to get lifted from the depression. So please don't think that I was deliberating at what levels people with diabetes get depression. All I was actually trying to state was that depression is a major part of fibromyalgia, and it is very, very unlikely that fibro's ever come off antidperessants and painkillers......I have found, and it is only me that dealing with the fibro and accepting my limitations has helped my diabetes.
 
Megan

Glad to hear that increasing may have helped the depression lift a little.

One thing about fibro, is that it takes a lot to limit ourselves from over doing things. it is horrible because we are not able to do all the things we used to so easily. I used to spped walk, nowadays I can barely walk without my walking stick and it can take me 21/2 hours to walk 3 miles!!! But, I do it, but just at my own pace. I have an 80 year old man that over takes me every day on the way and on the way back, but at least I am doing the walk. A 80 year old with a false leg also used to overtake me (he's unfortunately died now), but it hasn't actually stopped me doing my walk with my dogs, just that I have to allow such a long time to do it. I no longer mow my garden, have handed that job over to my husband, and I hate it because I used to be a gardener with my own business, but I help our neighbours and friends now with advice on plants and greenhouses etc instead.

The ampitryptalene and duloxitine for me have been the best combination, although I feel hungover every morning until about 11.30am, so not without all side effects, but therefore I have felt so bad each morning, not wanting to get up because of still feeling tired that feeling hungover isn't much of a side effect if my brain is actually a little bit happier.

Afraid, if it is fibromyalgia then you will have to learn to slow down and not to over do things......
 
donnellysdogs thanks for all you thoughts....it sounds too that you have had a very tough time of it....but you kept going and working at it....be proud of that......you are under a lot of pressure...and its not like a job that when it gets too much you can potentially switch your brain off from it for a little while....
we still have to concentrate on the next thing

as ridiculous as it sounds....i have a note book that i write my daily bloods and carb counting....scribble down more like...then bits of paper.....i have made double work for myself cause i then need to put it into the proper carb book for the dr....but i keep telling myself that i'll do that later when i'm not so tired and i can concentrate on writing it neatly and to make sense...

but that time never seems to come

i was always so meticulous...i was never like this....i think i need like a writing sreen pad where my scribbles of workings out will automatically get put into neat boxes and graphs :lol:
 
Megan

If you have an Accu chek meter you can ask them to send you a bg monitoring book that allows you to enter carb, bolus, correction bolus, basal rate and bg levels for every hour of the day. It is meant for insulin pump users but anyone using MDI bolus/basal can use it too. It doesn't cost anything and will make bg monitoring so much easier for everyone.

One of the reasons why bolus/basal fails so many people is that they don't have adequate bg monitoring books. The companies that produce bg meters issue monitoring books that are just about ok for biphasic insulin users who eat the same amount of carb day in day out.

If you haven't got an Accu chek meter, phone them and get a free one sent out to you and get a pump bg monitoring book. You'll find altering your insulin for the carb you eat much easier. It's not hard, really it isn't.
 
Megan

I have the log books that iHs is talking about. They are good.

I went to fill in my log book last night for 3 days (ooopss!!!)-like you I think I will make time to do it and that time occurring is a rarity unless my husband really pushes me. So last night hubby pushed me to complete it, and I couldn't even remember what I cooked the night before or even all the stuff that we had ate last night......and we eat a lot of similar food each day, just mainly the meat or fish that changes..thank goodness hubbys memory is switched on...it is a **** good thing that I am on the pump now, as it also records all the grams of food and bolus's and basals in it's memory, so that make things a lot easier.
You will get there Megan, as indeed I will. It just takes time to find the right medication to help us along.
Personally, when I feel happier in myself then I am more able to see things like my handling of my diabetes.
I know what you mean about bits of paper, and writing things down. Hubby helps me to try and remember and writes things down for me, and I try and write things down as well, but I still don't get round to doing even some of the most simple things, so then I end up with the lists re-written and re-written. I absolutely hate the way that I can barely manage myself these days, when I consider that I used to manage 160+ men at work.
But on the positive side, some of the most stupid things I have done raise a smile, getting lost, accidentally poisoning our dinner, accidentally giving John my medication, the list of things should be for a person with Alzheimers or dementia really , not a now 47 year old.
You'll get there, how is your blood control now?
 
iHs said:
Megan

If you have an Accu chek meter you can ask them to send you a bg monitoring book that allows you to enter carb, bolus, correction bolus, basal rate and bg levels for every hour of the day. It is meant for insulin pump users but anyone using MDI bolus/basal can use it too. It doesn't cost anything and will make bg monitoring so much easier for everyone.

One of the reasons why bolus/basal fails so many people is that they don't have adequate bg monitoring books. The companies that produce bg meters issue monitoring books that are just about ok for biphasic insulin users who eat the same amount of carb day in day out.

If you haven't got an Accu chek meter, phone them and get a free one sent out to you and get a pump bg monitoring book. You'll find altering your insulin for the carb you eat much easier. It's not hard, really it isn't.
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thanks....

i will ask for the book straight away....i have downloaded so many different ones myself and also designed my own so that i could write down potentially for every hour.....

i was ok doing that but got horribly critisised by the dr for trying to hard and so making myself anxious and so should do less blood tests..they always say not to look for a pattern because there isn't one and its just the actions of desparate people!.....
so hearing this for years i always felt it was my fault....it made sense to me to follow each test as so many people now do on the dafne whether on a pump or not.
the dr and nurse made it so much harder than it ever needed to be.

i still have to see them and of course fill in their own book on the matter of counting carbs and recording details...but i shall also use the one you have suggested.....extra work i know but the diabetes team won't have it any other way...

thanks for you suggestion :)
 
donnellysdogs said:
Megan

I have the log books that iHs is talking about. They are good.

I went to fill in my log book last night for 3 days (ooopss!!!)-like you I think I will make time to do it and that time occurring is a rarity unless my husband really pushes me. So last night hubby pushed me to complete it, and I couldn't even remember what I cooked the night before or even all the stuff that we had ate last night......and we eat a lot of similar food each day, just mainly the meat or fish that changes..thank goodness hubbys memory is switched on...it is a **** good thing that I am on the pump now, as it also records all the grams of food and bolus's and basals in it's memory, so that make things a lot easier.
You will get there Megan, as indeed I will. It just takes time to find the right medication to help us along.
Personally, when I feel happier in myself then I am more able to see things like my handling of my diabetes.
I know what you mean about bits of paper, and writing things down. Hubby helps me to try and remember and writes things down for me, and I try and write things down as well, but I still don't get round to doing even some of the most simple things, so then I end up with the lists re-written and re-written. I absolutely hate the way that I can barely manage myself these days, when I consider that I used to manage 160+ men at work.
But on the positive side, some of the most stupid things I have done raise a smile, getting lost, accidentally poisoning our dinner, accidentally giving John my medication, the list of things should be for a person with Alzheimers or dementia really , not a now 47 year old.
You'll get there, how is your blood control now?
Click to expand...

i have just copied all my notes of the last week and half into the dr's carb counting book....its not a very clear pattern at all. its looks all over the place actually.

something as simple as getting up in the middle of the night for myself or others means that my body kick starts itself and my heart is thumping...therefore i know that my blood will rise for breakfast...which it did do 10 to 13 to 17 by this morning.....

my eyeballs hurt and i'm sensitive to light ....happens quite a lot these days..

so i am on these new antidepressents....hoping that as they kick in the heart thumping bit will slow down....but when ever it happens through the day (which is quite a lot) my sugars raise.
and so its quite difficult to adjust for it.
i try to keep a check on any insulin stacking.....but am continously correcting at each meal.

i could raise the basal but i'm not sure which dose (morning or evening)....the heart thumping bit throws everything off.
i'm also faced with being continually told i am on too much insulin.

approx 65 to 85 units total in a day depending on the day and on what i have eaten....and on how much heart thumping has gone on!

and so to the rest of the day.....i get pleasure from reading books at the mo....i'm trying to achieve a little more each day but still need to sleep at some point during the day and still go to bed early at night...

my occasional normal blood sugar at the mo makes me feel sick and hungry...and shaky...i expect that but its a pain....
i have tried reducing my carbs but it just makes me feel awful and weak and irritable in myself.....i would like to have hypnotherapy for that but its a tad too expensive....any suggestions welcome!!!! :D
 
Megan

Hypnotherapy might help you mood wise to be able to tackle your pain levels so you can look into that yourself. There are many books and cds available which tackle the power of positive thinking and they are worth investigating.....

As for your bg levels..........

Who's gone and told you that you are using too much insulin?

If your bg levels are continually high then it's fairly clear that you are not using enough :?

Everyones need for insulin changes from person to person. You may be using more insulin than persons A and B but persons F and G might well be using a lot more than you. C is yourself and D and E are people you've not bothered to ask :)

1.5u for 10g is pretty average for most people as we tend to need more insulin in the morning than we do at lunch time. But, everyone is different and it doesn't matter at all if you use 1u for 5g if it gets your bg levels to come down. I used to use 1u to 3g at one time. Whether testing bg levels causes anxiety or not, anxiety and ill health is going to come because your bg levels are too high and by not testing, you don't know how much insulin you need to use.

When you get a better bg diary and can write everything down, work for the time being on a correction dose of 1u to allow your bg levels to fall by 2mmol. So if your bg level is on 12 before a main meal, use a target bg level of 8 to correct to: 12-8=4. You will therfore need to use a correction dose of 2u (4 divided by 2) plus the insulin to carb ratio that you use. Everyone's ratio adjusts as they work towards going in the right direction with their bg levels. The reason why I have suggested a target of 8 is that it sort of safeguards people from over correcting while they work towards finding their ideal TDD. Once you've got your ideal TDD figured out regardless of whatever insulin you use, you can then divide that into 100 and that will then give you a more accurate correction figure that 1u will lower you by.

Keep testing and adjusting your insulin up or down or if you find it easier, use your ratio to adjust the carb. If for example you have a bg level of 7mmol before you eat a main meal and you eat 30g carb and then 2hrs later you have a bg of 8-10mmol then you look at the amount of bolus you injected which might be for example 6u, divide the 30g by 6u and your ratio will be 1u for 5g. If your bg levels are higher or lower, then you need to adjust the ratios. Most ratios are can be worked out by dividing the carb by the insulin.
 
thanks for that.....i'd been with the same diabetes team for over 10 years before i decided to stop going there for about 4 years. i did try to go to the uk a couple of times and the team there were very attentive as far as they could be but i can't afford to go there and they can't help me with med changes/prescriptions pumps etc...

so i have now had to go back to my old team and got the same response as before....basically not particularly helpful...

it is this diabetes team that has always told me i am on far too much insulin....about the amount of their biggest men.
when i have tried to go to my old gp's...before i moved.....and this is over the 4 year period....they spoke as they had obviously taken advise from the diabetes team. Infact they lectured me and my husband and mother (one of them asked for my mother to come along as well for what they had to say).

too much insulin...too many blood tests....trying to hard...am my own worst enemy!
during my second pregnancy they actually told me not to increase my insulin, even though i quite clearly needed more!....for 5 days i had very high sugars and got frightened and so increased my insulin despite being told not to.

they told me that during a pregnancy the insulin requirements may double or even triple.....mine didn't even get to double and i still got critisised!

i was told not to have contact with other diabetics as it was better for me.....and to not bother searching the net as it was fruitless and the act of desparate people!!!

and so having so many tellings off over the years and being spoken to in an apauling way its not supprising i feel like i do and to know they are my main support doesn't make me feel any better!

this site and people have been an amazing support and i'm so pleased to hear from everyone.....but i still have to go back to this diabetes team and face their music!

they sound even more closed minded and ignorant the more i hear from people on this site...

i get 'the look' and tutting when i work hard at it......4 years ago i did a lot of unlearning and re learning from going on to the web and getting suggested books.....now i will continue with the new blood test book (which sounds very similar to something i made up myself once before i got told off for doing that).
it seems i still have more unlearning from the experiences i have with this diabetic team to do...
its not that i ignored persons D or E.....i just was trying to do what the diabetic experts told me....even though i always felt there must be other easier answers....i don't have a problem with working hard at it...i just wanted it to work and be well....

good to hear from you again...thanks :)
 
Oh Megan....

The only person that knows your levels and your requirements is you. It is only you (and your immediate family!!LOL) that live with the diabetes 24/7/365.

iHs is so right, if you need more insulin etc to keep your levels lower, then you need to do whatever it takes to be quite honest. If it takes more or less insulin, then that is what you have to do.

I don't really know what to say that iHs hasn't said, but everything that she has written to me is spot on.

From going on my pump I have realised just how much my diabetes control is down to me, and if I need more insulin I give more and if I need less then it is less, no quibbles, no wondering, just doing it. It is a real shame that you do appear to be so confident on wanting to manage your diabetes that you have ended up questioning yourself and what you are doing.

You are sounding a lot more positive, and I know that none of us are HCP's BUT we lare the ones that live with the diabetes, we just don't see a glimpse of a persons life through an hba1c and an appointment. on this forum we all have good and bad experiences, that can be taken or left, but generally I have found that people that live with it have a **** good insight as to how they manage.

It's a bit like the log books for recording details-really you can use whatever book best suits you, and gives you the best chance of monitoring what is going on. It isn't really down to an HCP to tell you what type of record book you should be using. As long as you are managing to get your levels better, then what device or book or meter etc you use should be down to the individual. you shouldn't have to copy records over from one book to another to just suit your HCP. Sounds harsh against HCP's, but it isn't meant that way. We have to find a way to live and get the best control we can to suit our bodies and our lifestyles, we do enough by testing, writing, bloodtests, food etc to really be picked on for what type of recording books etc we have. Same with the insulin, it is you that lives the diabetic life, not your HCP. If you need more on a daily basis, (or less) then you should not be compared to others-it has to be what gives you good control...

You sound much more positive, and that is good. I know I can't see you to know how you really are feeling (probably hiding the fact that you feel like cr*p-LOL!!!) but at the end of the day......someone yesterday put this expression in my head-what is the worst thing that could happen-' from you increasing your insulin?

The person that gave me this expression yesterday to manage my stress and anxiety used the expression-'what is the worst thing that could happen?'- Today, when I have thought that, it has made me think really of the worst-and the worst thing isn't really that bad and it is manageable.....

Thank goodness I'm not a bungee jumper!!!!!!
 
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