Eat fat live longer

[Alexandra100]

from NEJM JOURNAL WATCH



High-Fat Diets Were Associated with Lower 7-Year Mortality


Bruce Soloway, MD reviewing Dehghan M et al. Lancet 2017 Aug 28.


Higher fat and lower carbohydrate intake was associated with lower mortality and no change in adverse cardiovascular events in this global study.


Standard dietary advice to restrict total fat and saturated fatty acids (<30% and <10% of total energy, respectively) is based largely on a few observational studies conducted years ago in North America and Europe. However, recent meta-analyses have shown no association, or an inverse relation, between saturated fatty acid intake and total mortality and adverse cardiovascular (CV) events.

Researchers conducted detailed analyses of the diets of more than 135,000 people with a range of income levels in 18 countries on five continents. Participants were sorted into quintiles based on percentage of dietary energy derived from carbohydrates; protein; and total, saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats. Median follow-up was 7.4 years.


After adjustment for education, smoking, physical activity, diabetes, urban versus rural location, total energy intake, and geographic region, higher carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk for overall mortality and non-CV–related death but was not associated with major adverse CV events assessed individually or as a group. Conversely, higher intakes of total, saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats were associated with lower risk for overall and non-CV–related death and were not associated with adverse CV events (other than an inverse relation between saturated fat intake and stroke).



COMMENT

Data from this large, diverse international cohort does not support current dietary guidelines that recommend restricting total and saturated fats. The findings suggest that people who eat high carbohydrate diets might benefit from substituting fats for some of their carbohydrates.

 

[badcat]

As ever, the science is more complicated
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/

 

[Freema]

wow......

 

[Bluetit1802]

Oh goodie ..... I have eaten 3 clotted cream ice creams with additional clotted cream toppings this week (on holiday in Devon!) Tubs, of course, not cones.

 

[Dinet]

from NEJM JOURNAL WATCH



High-Fat Diets Were Associated with Lower 7-Year Mortality


Bruce Soloway, MD reviewing Dehghan M et al. Lancet 2017 Aug 28.


Higher fat and lower carbohydrate intake was associated with lower mortality and no change in adverse cardiovascular events in this global study.


Standard dietary advice to restrict total fat and saturated fatty acids (<30% and <10% of total energy, respectively) is based largely on a few observational studies conducted years ago in North America and Europe. However, recent meta-analyses have shown no association, or an inverse relation, between saturated fatty acid intake and total mortality and adverse cardiovascular (CV) events.

Researchers conducted detailed analyses of the diets of more than 135,000 people with a range of income levels in 18 countries on five continents. Participants were sorted into quintiles based on percentage of dietary energy derived from carbohydrates; protein; and total, saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats. Median follow-up was 7.4 years.


After adjustment for education, smoking, physical activity, diabetes, urban versus rural location, total energy intake, and geographic region, higher carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk for overall mortality and non-CV–related death but was not associated with major adverse CV events assessed individually or as a group. Conversely, higher intakes of total, saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats were associated with lower risk for overall and non-CV–related death and were not associated with adverse CV events (other than an inverse relation between saturated fat intake and stroke).



COMMENT

Data from this large, diverse international cohort does not support current dietary guidelines that recommend restricting total and saturated fats. The findings suggest that people who eat high carbohydrate diets might benefit from substituting fats for some of their carbohydrates.

it is too early to know for real as data for longtitunal studies take decades. Just remember the hundreds of published studies that supported low-fat (high sugar) diets!
Thanks for the info though.

 

[WWJD]

Oh goodie ..... I have eaten 3 clotted cream ice creams with additional clotted cream toppings this week (on holiday in Devon!) Tubs, of course, not cones.

You may live forever at that rate. This is the video of the PURE study. It is given by a world renown cardiologist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salim_Yusuf

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

As ever, the science is more complicated
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/

Basically that paper says that reducing saturated fat intake and increasing cis-PUFA intake will lower your LDL.

 

[Robbity]

from NEJM JOURNAL WATCH



High-Fat Diets Were Associated with Lower 7-Year Mortality
...
Data from this large, diverse international cohort does not support current dietary guidelines that recommend restricting total and saturated fats. The findings suggest that people who eat high carbohydrate diets might benefit from substituting fats for some of their carbohydrates.

Well prior to the 1970s this is exacty what we were eating (i.e. more fats and fewer carbs than currently) and the human race seemed to have survived quite well on that diet for thousands of years, until a few daft "scientists" decided we should do otherwise...

 

[Oldvatr]

it is too early to know for real as data for longtitunal studies take decades. Just remember the hundreds of published studies that supported low-fat (high sugar) diets!
Thanks for the info though.

I spent a lot of time last night trying to find RCT studies that actually supported the Low Fat hypothesis, and I was totally unsuccessful in that venture. Most of the studies used to prop up the (now discredited ) Ancel Keys Seven Countries study that kicked off the Sat Fat is Bad revolution are only observational studies, A recent re-run of a multitiude of these studies was carried out on their data using modern statistical methods, and came up with the report shown in the OP, and there are I believe other ones showing the same, such as the Harvard Nurses Study. So the OP is actually based on many studies performed in the past, so is more longitudinal than a new report would suggest since it is using historic data. The BHF has endorsed this report, but NICE et al have not. The head of the USA heart foundation has also recently announced full support for the new findings,

 

[badcat]

Basically that paper says that reducing saturated fat intake and increasing cis-PUFA intake will lower your LDL.

So in terms "eat fat, live longer" the take home message is not all fats

 

[Oldvatr]

So in terms "eat fat, live longer" the take home message is not all fats

Again it only reduces LDL, and recent studies have shown that having low LDL is no longer considered necessary in terms of mortality risk. In effect lowering LDL too low actually increases your risk of early death or co-morbidity. Also another study showed that there is no link between Sat Fat and increasing risk for CVD or stroke, Again it was a meta analysis of historic data. Also confirmed by the Harvard Nurses study, which is an ongoing long term large scale trial in USA.

Edit to add: it also showed that PUFA and Omega-6 fats are harmful in large quantities. The safest fats are monounsaturated ~(MUFA) like cold pressed virgin olive oil, and then Sat Fats. Transfats are a definite NO-NO in all studies.

 

[badcat]

Again it only reduces LDL, and recent studies have shown that having low LDL is no longer considered necessary in terms of mortality risk. In effect lowering LDL too low actually increases your risk of early death or co-morbidity. Also another study showed that there is no link between Sat Fat and increasing risk for CVD or stroke, Again it was a meta analysis of historic data. Also confirmed by the Harvard Nurses study, which is an ongoing long term large scale trial in USA.
.

Different studies have different conclusions and none of us here are metabolic scientists so " you pays your money and makes your choice" is a sad but apt saying
Other studies indicate that ldl particle size may be important with small particle size being assosciated with increased arterial damage and cvd risk and big fluffy particle size assosciated with protective functions
Given the variability my own choice is to have a balance in the fats I consume ( omega 3:6. Unsaturated:saturated,etc ) with highest proportion being monounsaturated than any other type rather than having an unbalanced profile with saturated fat heavily dominant

 

[Oldvatr]

Different studies have different conclusions and none of us here are metabolic scientists so " you pays your money and makes your choice" is a sad but apt saying
Other studies indicate that ldl particle size may be important with small particle size being assosciated with increased arterial damage and cvd risk and big fluffy particle size assosciated with protective functions
Given the variability my own choice is to have a balance in the fats I consume ( omega 3:6. Unsaturated:saturated,etc ) with higher proportion monounsaturated than any other etc etc rather than having an unbalanced profile with saturated fat heavily dominant

I have read that research on VHDL>>> LDL>>>>> sLDL pathway too, and it does seem that Trig levels are an indicator of sLDL and is a better predictor of athersclerosis than LDL or TC, and I subscribe to this POV too.

I too tend to have a mixed fat intake, but I have dropped my marge and spreadable butter products in favour of real butter. I have not yet changed from semi skimmed back to full milk, but I avoid so called Low Fat products like the plague. I go for meat with fat, but I do not hunt out extra lean or choose very fatty cuts of meat, so again I will eat meat fat but in moderation. I do use coconut oil and olive oil, but also use a vegetable oil for frying rather than lard. since it takes higher temperatures. I do not bake or eat pastry much. If I need to put on weight I use double cream and sometimes lard and use real mayo, but generally I rarely need to pile on the pounds, so it is a quick fix. I rarely vary my weight by more than 1 kg. My trigs have dropped since going HF and my TC halved too. I have to wait another 8 months till my next blood review, so I am working blind. But it seems to be working for me.

I found that my adherence to Eatwell diet did not even dent my diabetes, and my HbA1c was over 100. Now on LCHF it was 41 at last review, but will have risen slightly since as I have dropped most of my meds. I did have 2 strokes, and a heart attack some 5 years ago, but since then my vitals have improved on my new diet.

 

[badcat]

Sounds v similar to how I eat although i only use whole lactofree milk and use rice bran oil for frying as it takes high temps well
Ive never use marg or spreads and find them disgusting taste wise - unsalted butter is my preference in that area
With regards to the eatwell stuff - Ive never had much time for govt advice or % figures for macros and simply followed a wholefood, frequently vegaterian diet for most of my life.
In the first 10 years or so after I was diagnosed diabetic, I could still tolerate brown rice, some underground veg and stoneground wholemeal / rye bread without BS spikes, now I cant.

 

[Oldvatr]

Sounds v similar to how I eat although i only use whole lactofree milk and use rice bran oil for frying as it takes high temps well
Ive never use marg or spreads and find them disgusting taste wise - unsalted butter is my preference in that area
With regards to the eatwell stuff - Ive never had much time for govt advice or % figures for macros and simply followed a wholefood, frequently vegaterian diet for most of my life.
In the first 10 years or so after I was diagnosed diabetic, I could still tolerate brown rice, some underground veg and stoneground wholemeal / rye bread without BS spikes, now I cant.

I have found that my LC diet has improved my ability to eat some carbs again. Although I still retain some of my meds, I have significantly reduced my doseages. Two years ago a chinese special fried rice would push me up to over 32mmol/l at the 2hr mark, but a couple of days ago I had sweet'n sour pork with white rice and I only went up to 9, and dropped to 6 at the 4hr mark, I can eat a Jumbo Cod in batter without flinching now, and I can eat 2 slices of toast and marmalade in the morning My bgl daily average is currently running at 7.0 mmol/l but that is an average of 2 meters, one of which consistently reads at least 1 mmol/l higher than the other on the same blood sample, so probably 6.5 mmol/l. My GP told me to aim for a target of 7 mmol/l, so I have been there and back again got numerous T-shirts, and still happy to LC. My family is also happy to LC with me provided I do the cooking and washing up.......

 

[badcat]

I have found that my LC diet has improved my ability to eat some carbs again. Although I still retain some of my meds, I have significantly reduced my doseages. Two years ago a chinese special fried rice would push me up to over 32mmol/l at the 2hr mark, but a couple of days ago I had sweet'n sour pork with white rice and I only went up to 9, and dropped to 6 at the 4hr mark, I can eat a Jumbo Cod in batter without flinching now, and I can eat 2 slices of toast and marmalade in the morning My bgl daily average is currently running at 7.0 mmol/l but that is an average of 2 meters, one of which consistently reads at least 1 mmol/l higher than the other on the same blood sample, so probably 6.5 mmol/l. My GP told me to aim for a target of 7 mmol/l, so I have been there and back again got numerous T-shirts, and still happy to LC. My family is also happy to LC with me provided I do the cooking and washing up.......

I aim for under 50g carbs and take low dose Glic Ive tried keto ( under 20g) for 2-3 weeks with no meds but get quite ill with increased fasting blood sugars (up to 11's) and ketones ( up to 7) so thats a non starter. As ive been on Glic for over 20 years medics now question whether I actually have T2 at all and have raised the question of monogenic diabetes - I intend to push them to test at my next review

 

[Tannith]

I believe that monounsaturated fat is the best one to use, but am not sure what an excess of it might do to the body. I think low carb is fine if you are trying to lose weight, but once you have achieved your ideal weight I can't see how it could work any more. You would have to make up the calories you needed with something else - either protein or extra fat. Does anyone know of any studies on the effects of excess monounsaturated fats - that is over about 13% of cals?

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Tannith There are lots of us on the forum that have used low carb to lose weight, reached our ideal weight, then maintained that ideal weight. Low carb does continue to work - at least it has for me. I even halved my carbs from around 60g a day to around 30g. after losing my excess weight in order to bring my BS levels down to where I felt happier. Of course I increased my calories from extra fat and protein - mostly but not exclusively from protein foods that also contain fat such as eggs and cheese. It wasn't easy to find the right balance and took a while, but once the right balance was found, all was well. That was 3 years ago and I am still maintaining, and am alive and kicking with good blood markers. So far ......

 

[Oldvatr]

I believe that monounsaturated fat is the best one to use, but am not sure what an excess of it might do to the body. I think low carb is fine if you are trying to lose weight, but once you have achieved your ideal weight I can't see how it could work any more. You would have to make up the calories you needed with something else - either protein or extra fat. Does anyone know of any studies on the effects of excess monounsaturated fats - that is over about 13% of cals?

https://www.fitnessmagazine.com/recipes/healthy-eating/nutrition/good-and-bad-fats/

Its a blog, so not a primary source of info, but it does reference the scientific studies that back up the claims being made, I have read these reports before, and confirm they do exist if you want to seek them out.

And here is another blog talking about using sat fat for weight loss.
http://www.doctoroz.com/blog/lisa-lynn/fat-loss-tricks-actually-work

 

[Tannith]

Thank you guys