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Type 2 Eat to the meter, or play the long game?

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Jim Lahey said:
As an aside, in my opinion, optimally efficient testing once you understand your food, is waking up and before the evening meal. If you know that your food choices won’t “spike” your sugars after eating, then these two testing times are the most reliable marker of your metabolic health. They indicate better than any other testing: the level of fatty infiltration of the liver, and your insulin resistance.
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I agree, and these are the only 2 tests that I am interested in, but as you say, only when you understand your food choices and what they do to your levels. Until then, my opinion remains that eating to your meter is the best way to learn, and when I suggest to newbies that any rise from before to after should be under 2mmol/l I always add that this should preferably be much lower. It isn't just a question of knowing that spuds, bread, rice and so on should be left off the menu or seriously reduced in portion size, but also what every other ingredient in that meal does. Newbies should also understand that the testing at 2 hours after first bite is just a guideline and that glucose can peak earlier or later.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I agree, and these are the only 2 tests that I am interested in, but as you say, only when you understand your food choices and what they do to your levels. Until then, my opinion remains that eating to your meter is the best way to learn, and when I suggest to newbies that any rise from before to after should be under 2mmol/l I always add that this should preferably be much lower. It isn't just a question of knowing that spuds, bread, rice and so on should be left off the menu or seriously reduced in portion size, but also what every other ingredient in that meal does. Newbies should also understand that the testing at 2 hours after first bite is just a guideline and that glucose can peak earlier or later.
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I agree, and it’s important to remember that no one is telling anyone else what to do. This discussion is only meant to get an idea of the split of how we each manage our diabetes now, not necessarily how we used to. Blimey, I used to test up to eight times a day when I was new to all this :D
 
therower said:
@Charis1213 . Your avatar states you are “ insulin dependent type 2” if you are a resident in the UK why are you buying test strips? If you’re using insulin, test strips should be on prescription.
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It is a glitch in the website that has been reported countless times but nothing gets done. It has been the same since a previous upgrade about 3 years ago. I only ever see "Type 2" and never see "type 2 insulin dependent" even if they happen to be insulin dependent!

@Charis1213 if you go to your profile settings, please make sure you have ticked the correct box.
 
therower said:
@Charis1213 . Your avatar states you are “ insulin dependent type 2” if you are a resident in the UK why are you buying test strips? If you’re using insulin, test strips should be on prescription.
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It shouldn't say that because I am not I will have to look at that , thank you for pointing that out .
 
Bluetit1802 said:
It is a glitch in the website that has been reported countless times but nothing gets done. It has been the same since a previous upgrade about 3 years ago. I only ever see "Type 2" and never see "type 2 insulin dependent" even if they happen to be insulin dependent!

@Charis1213 if you go to your profile settings, please make sure you have ticked the correct box.
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I've checked and it says diet only .
 
In the beginning I had I guess a naive hope that maybe some carby foods I used to love I could ‘get away with’ and maybe continue eating regularly if could get a 2mmmol rise so wanted to eat to my meter. However after getting a 9.2 from 5.7 after a slice of toast on day 2 after diagnosis it scared the living daylights out of me and as I’ve got into low carb I’ve quickly realised that to not let diabetes beat me there’s no point clutching at straws.
Low carb works for me and so I don’t really bother trying carbs out as I won’t be able to eat them. I’ve got my dark chocolate treats I know don’t bring a rise and so I’m happy with that. I am ‘carbier’ than others, still using milk in tea & coffee but stick to under 60g a day and On average now daily my BG Sits between 4.5-5.9 rarely seeing a reading above this at any time of day and so I believe I’m at a point that I don’t need to keep testing constantly.
However Only being 4 months in, and about 8 weeks away from my first diet only controlled Hba1c I find I panic and so still test 4/5 times a day, only to be frustrated in myself at wasting strips when I see my relatively stable readings. I hope after my next results I will feel more confident to ease up a little and trust my diet, and realising how much I’ve spent on strips since September is a little gutting so would love to reduce it a little.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a pizza I know I shouldn’t have eaten - but i also didn’t waste strips testing because I know very well i can’t eat it, I shouldn’t eat it, I chose to anyway, why try and pretend my meter might have accepted it. My eating won’t be perfect for the rest of my life, I will have an occasion where I eat a totally horrendous meal that is not good for me. I’m not perfect and I’m honest with myself about that. But I do know I won’t ever be testing ‘carbs’ against my meter again. I don’t want them to be a part of my life in general day to day. I don’t want to try and ‘get away with them’ any more. I feel the best I’ve ever felt, physically and mentally and I put that down to feeling in control of my body for the first time in my life. Maybe in years to come, when at some point in undoubtedly deteriorate I’ll have a very different outlook. But for now, in a strange way, being diagnosed diabetic was the best thing to happen to me and so I plan on playing the long game until I have no other option and that for me at present is eating what I know works and accepting that’s what works
 
Jim Lahey said:
As an aside, in my opinion, optimally efficient testing once you understand your food, is waking up and before the evening meal. If you know that your food choices won’t “spike” your sugars after eating, then these two testing times are the most reliable marker of your metabolic health. They indicate better than any other testing: the level of fatty infiltration of the liver, and your insulin resistance.
Click to expand...

I can see your point however, as a menopausal female, my hormonal fluctuations are still happening in a monthly-ish cycle, and so I still feel the need and get benefit from more testing. Also, bodies can react on different days to even the same foods.
 
I look at my approach to controlling my diabetes from an insulin angle.I found Joeseph Krafts' work with insulin testing enlightening.I want to minimize insulin production in response to my food choices.

Kraft found that people can have normal blood glucose readings,but only by producing excessive insulin.Through his work doing autopsies on young men returning from the Korean war he concluded vascular damage was occurring long before abnormal blood glucose readings.

I don't want to go into a full description of Krafts' work here,but he believed it was hyperinsulinemia was the problem with type 2 diabetes,and high blood sugars were a symptom of prolonged hyperinsulinemia..

Thus, if we are controlling blood glucose by eating carbs up to the amount we can maintain blood glucose at an acceptable level we may still be experiencing hyperinsulinemia.

My approach is to minimise insulin response to my food choices.I keep carbs to the minimum always.Unfortunately blood glucose testing doesn't tell me what I want to know,and is a very rough guide only.I test 2 hours after dinner,sometimes on waking and rarely during the day.It's the only information I have on my progress.

I don't want to eat what I can get away with,but what I think will keep my insulin response to a minimum.

ps I have never needed medication
 
Burg said:
I look at my approach to controlling my diabetes from an insulin angle.I found Joeseph Krafts' work with insulin testing enlightening.I want to minimize insulin production in response to my food choices.

Kraft found that people can have normal blood glucose readings,but only by producing excessive insulin.Through his work doing autopsies on young men returning from the Korean war he concluded vascular damage was occurring long before abnormal blood glucose readings.

I don't want to go into a full description of Krafts' work here,but he believed it was hyperinsulinemia was the problem with type 2 diabetes,and high blood sugars were a symptom of prolonged hyperinsulinemia..

Thus, if we are controlling blood glucose by eating carbs up to the amount we can maintain blood glucose at an acceptable level we may still be experiencing hyperinsulinemia.

My approach is to minimise insulin response to my food choices.I keep carbs to the minimum always.Unfortunately blood glucose testing doesn't tell me what I want to know,and is a very rough guide only.I test 2 hours after dinner,sometimes on waking and rarely during the day.It's the only information I have on my progress.

I don't want to eat what I can get away with,but what I think will keep my insulin response to a minimum.

ps I have never needed medication
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Yes that’s a very valid point. We check our blood glucose but none of us know how much insulin is being secreted in order to attain whatever reading we see. Having said that, if someone has previously had hyperglycaemia and they are now seeing their numbers decline, it’s perhaps less likely that insulin levels are sky high relative to glucose :)
 
Jim Lahey said:
Eating to the meter = testing before and after food. Or knowing that the food you’re eating is putting glucose into your body but you’re happy with that.

Long game = not needing to test before or after. Keeping your toe in the water with occasional or daily fasting checks, but otherwise knowing that you are depleting glucose, not putting some in.
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It could be we all may have slightly differing perceptions and so have a different slant or understanding of the various nuances involved.

Maybe you should have defined the parameters of your inquiry at the start.

Edit to add Also some like me may be having a little difficulty focusing at the moment due to a bit of mind fog really got to find where my head is at I'm sure I left it round here somewhere.
 
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Well that’s why it’s an open discussion and not a competition, but I’ll consider myself told off :oops:

:D
 
Err sorry apologies not intending to tell any one off just giving an opinion thats all always value yours Jim. :)
 
Mr_Pot said:
You seem to have this strange idea that the human body is full of glucose like some sort of crystallised fruit. Glycogen is stored temporarily but without being topped up would be exhausted in a day or so. Energy is stored long term as fat. By eating low carb we are putting less stress on our ability to deal with glucose and hopefully long term reducing insulin resistance. Your two scenarios are really not different.
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I believe they ARE DIFFERENT.

Eating to the meter is like being a nicotine addict trying to pack up fags, but still having a crafty drag now and then.

Using a meter to check the effect of good food choices is one thing, but using a meter to monitor whether or not we can get away with (e.g.) porridge and bananas is quite another.

We all know that carbs are not good for us (read poison) yet how many times have T2D members reported having a crafty pizza, Chinese take-away, Ritz cracker, etc. when accounting for their high glucose readings.

I don't wish to offend anyone, but Jim's question is a very good one and is subtly ferreting out whether we want to manage T2D or cure ourselves of it.
 
BloodThirsty said:
I don't wish to offend anyone, but Jim's question is a very good one and is subtly ferreting out whether we want to manage T2D or cure ourselves of it.
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Yes. This is the crux of it, except to say that “subtly ferreting out” probably implies judgement, which was not my intention at all. To reframe the choice;

Eat to the meter vs. long game.
Low carb vs. keto.
Manage vs. reverse.

Call it what you will :)
 
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Jim Lahey said:
Yes. This is the crux of it, except to say that “subtly ferreting out” probably implies judgement, which was not my intention at all. To reframe the choice;

Eat to the meter vs. long game.
Low carb vs. keto.
Reverse vs. manage.

Call it what you will :)
Click to expand...
Poor choice of words on my part, not yours.
 
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