Type 2 Eat to the meter, or play the long game?

[Boo1979]

Respectfully it’s not a strange idea. It’s the view of Dr. Jason Fung, and he knows a thing or two.

What he writes here (may2018) re energy storage indicates something different re glycogen storage
https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/understanding-obesity-f233fbb38dc1

 

[Member496333]

This video describes the overflow model of sugar in the entire body. Of course people are free to disagree with it

 

[Member496333]

This video is probably better at describing the overflow phenomenon and is of a much more manageable length

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Firstly, I respect that discussion of this nature can be quite prickly. I’d therefore like to open by making it clear that nothing I’m about to say is meant as a disparaging attitude toward anyone’s diabetes management. Food is very personal, and it goes without saying that we are all free to manage our condition as we please. I’m asking this question purely out of curiosity to see which camp we all sit in. If you’re uncomfortable with anything I say, or the manner in which I say it, then please accept my apologies and ignore the discussion rather than take the view that it’s an attack on your choices

With that out of the way, my question is as per the thread title. “Do you eat to the meter” as it were? Do you take the view that as long as you can get from one meal to the next with the maximum glucose load that your own prescribed limits will allow, then you’re ok? Alternatively, do you play the “long game” and always keep in mind that your goal is to purge the body of glucose, not keep topping it up to just below the MAX mark, most probably with the aim of reversal/remission/cure or whatever you choose to call it?

In my own personal view, the latter method is the most effective, and I also find total abstinence of my kryptonite foods to be far easier than negotiating with them - weighing, counting, and then measuring blood glucose. I don’t feel that the former method is sustainable for me for long term, and also I take the stance that it will make my condition ever so gradually worse over the course of my life.

What say you, folks? Again, I know that people are naturally defensive of their own choices, so please read the first paragraph again if you’re considering expressing disapproval of my question or the way in which I have framed it. Open discussion invited though of course. A or B answers would be a bit boring

I think, when you're just starting out and are in the middle of the learning process, eating to your meter is a good idea. It gives you some insight into what's happening in your body, and after a while it'll help you make long term choices about how many carbs a day you're comfortable with. Mentally and physically.

So for me, it's keto and IF, after a year and a half of LCHF and figuring out what worked for me... But really, as T2 is a condition that's highly individual, and some people would feel trapped/imprisoned eating the away I choose to... (And eventually, rebelling would make things that much worse!) I think it just depends on the person.

 

[Sue192]

An interesting discussion. I suppose I fall into both camps: tested at first, got the hang of things (if you can ever really get the hang of this), cut back on the testing as I find that if I go into nerd mode it stresses me*, and now I know what suits and what doesn't I don't test unless it's a day/meal that's either different or unavoidable. I've started again because of not feeling brilliant on low carb for some time and wondering what's going on, so I need to work out good levels for me.

*I think the nerd stress comes from being surrounded by engineers since I was born - father, parents' friends, ex, my friends etc!

 

[Member496333]

I think, when you're just starting out and are in the middle of the learning process, eating to your meter is a good idea. It gives you some insight into what's happening in your body, and after a while it'll help you make long term choices about how many carbs a day you're comfortable with. Mentally and physically.

So for me, it's keto and IF, after a year and a half of LCHF and figuring out what worked for me... But really, as T2 is a condition that's highly individual, and some people would feel trapped/imprisoned eating the away I choose to... (And eventually, rebelling would make things that much worse!) I think it just depends on the person.

Wholeheartedly agree. Thanks so much for all your contributions so far. Very interesting to hear all your different views.

 

[britishpub]

I think (and I hope @Jim Lahey will correct me if I'm wrong) that Jim means that some here will eat a certain amount of carbs because their meter says they "can" i.e. less than a 2 mmol/l rise after having them. This will of course to a greater or lesser extent do exactly what you say.. .re-stock the glycogen stores so they are in a constant state of flux. Others like myself have the view that as few carbs as possible is a more effective way of looking at things. I guess you could say its the difference between "lower carb" and keto?

I've never "eaten to my meter" and I have always thought that the advice often given to do so was unhelpful, mainly for the reasons given above.

I idea of experimenting constantly and therefore most likely causing damage has always been counter intuitive to me.

I just don't eat the stuff that will harm me.

 

[Krystyna23040]

I have a foot in both camps. I am afraid that I am an obsessive tester and I love keeping records. I stay keto but test because I get stressed if I don't know if I am on track or not. I just feel so happy seeing my good blood sugars and just don't like not knowing.

It also helps me tweek my diet. Have recently found that Greek yoghurt, butter and cheese do not spike my blood sugars but I cannot have more than 100ml of double cream in a day or blood sugars start running high.

Also have found if I eat more protein than I usually do my blood sugars run high. Interestingly I found that if I increase my 87% chocolate from 10g a day to 25g my BS goes lower. I must say that I did enjoy that particular experiment.

So I feel I still don't know everything I need to know about how my body handles foods (even after 2 years low carb then keto) and the meter definitely helps.

 

[Spl@]

Bit of both for me too. I avoid carbs as much as possible now only really eating the background stuff in veg etc.

Testing is still valid. As example for some reason around 4 hrs after bfast my bg is down into the 4's. By the time I actually eat at around 1330 it's back up to the mid 5's even low 6's.

I only know because of testing I did at the start, was nigh on hourly.

I feel that after the warning from the high 1c my sugar system has a finite point.

Ticking over, well maintained it should see me out. I have read enough posts of the struggles people have when things go bad.

 

[Member496333]

I've never "eaten to my meter" and I have always thought that the advice often given to do so was unhelpful, mainly for the reasons given above.

I idea of experimenting constantly and therefore most likely causing damage has always been counter intuitive to me.

I just don't eat the stuff that will harm me.

For me it’s less about the risks of potentially toxic postprandial glucose concentration with experimentation, and more about not really ridding the body of glucose. I am a firm believer in the overflow phenomenon, as evidenced by the fact that it can take a very long time to bring wayward blood sugars under control - eating low carb for a day and going for a jog does not do this, so I strongly disagree that we only have glucose in the blood, glycogen in the muscles & liver, and that’s it. In fact it doesn’t even make sense, since every cell in the body can burn glucose, not just blood cells.

With that in mind, my own personal feeling is that “eat to the meter” carries a connotation of “topping up” the glucose in the body rather than making intensive efforts to drain it all out. I appreciate that this a personal perspective and others are entitled to see things from a different angle, but certainly I’d be comfortable asserting that the entire body needs purging of glucose. To me that is the big picture - the long game.

 

[britishpub]

I tend not to overthink things

 

[Mr_Pot]

This video is probably better at describing the overflow phenomenon and is of a much more manageable length

I have watched the video and he does indeed state that sugar builds up in the body, in addition to the storage of glycogen and fat but he doesn't go into more detail about exactly where and in what form. I have been unable to find any other source to confirm or explain this. Maybe another forum member has more information.

 

[Member496333]

I’ve heard Gary Fetke and many others discussing it but don’t have any links immediately to hand.

My understanding is that it’s glucose. Glucose in the body (stuffed cells) spills into the blood when the fat cells are full, which is when diabetes is diagnosed. It’s not glycogen and it’s not fat, but simply glucose. This is why it’s toxic to every system in the body from the eyes to the toes. And it’s why it takes time to purge it all. Hence my “long game” that is so far working for me with no dawn phenomenon and continually improving insulin sensitivity

 

[lucylocket61]

With that in mind, my own personal feeling is that “eat to the meter” carries a connotation of “topping up” the glucose in the body rather than making intensive efforts to drain it all out.

I see.

My meaning to eating to my meter is to limit the carbs, be aware of what my body is doing with them, get the knowledge I need to make decisions for the whole of my body, not just my type 2 diabetes. Its data, not a license to eat more carbs.

 

[Resurgam]

Yes, my interpretation of eating to your meter is obviously very different, as I used it to avoid high blood glucose levels.
I was not constantly experimenting to find ways to push it up to a maximum but to seek the minimum possible and then lower it.

 

[bulkbiker]

I think you are all right but there are different tolerances to "eating to your meter". If you believe that a rise of 2 mmol/l after eating is fine then you will be re-stocking your glycogen stores all the time and will probably take a lot longer to combat excess insulin production. If you are aiming for a rise of say 0-0.5mmol/l then you will get better and quicker returns on your investment. Both could be described as eating to your meter but I know which one I'd follow for long term health benefits.

 

[Charis1213]

I can't afford to test more than a few times a day now as the strips are so expensive , I have done since starting lchf because i needed to know what was happening and needed to see the numbers come down so it encouraged me. I have just ordered my second lot of strips that's already cost me sixteen pounds this month , so once I know my numbers have come down when i go for my A1c has dropped end of this month I will test when i wake up and then after the evening meal and that is all i will be able to afford to do .
I'd rather test more but just can't afford to .

So no I don't eat to the meter . I wouldn't at the moment try different foods to push myself to see how it affects my numbers .

 

[Member496333]

As an aside, in my opinion, optimally efficient testing once you understand your food, is waking up and before the evening meal. If you know that your food choices won’t “spike” your sugars after eating, then these two testing times are the most reliable marker of your metabolic health. They indicate better than any other testing: the level of fatty infiltration of the liver, and your insulin resistance.

 

[therower]

@Charis1213 . Your avatar states you are “ insulin dependent type 2” if you are a resident in the UK why are you buying test strips? If you’re using insulin, test strips should be on prescription.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Charis1213 . Your avatar states you are “ insulin dependent type 2” if you are a resident in the UK why are you buying test strips? If you’re using insulin, test strips should be on prescription.

Are you on the app or web page.. @Charis1213 on my desktop is Type 2 well known member