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Engine immobiliser for diabetics?

Shannon27

Shannon27

Well-Known Member
Messages
292
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi everyone!

I can't claim credit for this idea, but it's something that was mentioned in the "Type 1 Stars r Us" chat a while ago that i've been thinking about. But i have some time on my hands, and some tools for software programming, so thought i'd give it a shot.

The idea is basically an engine immobiliser that would detect pulses from a CGM. A lot of people use CGMs or the Libre with mobile apps to adapt to CGM. When the drivers blood sugar drops below 5 (in-keeping with the NICE guidelines) a warning would be sent to your phone and hopefully through the car speaker system, saying you have 2 minutes to find a safe place to stop and treat an oncoming hypo.

I admit it sounds pretty extreme, having your engine immobilised at a reading like 4.9. However some people do get early hypo signs, including lapses in judgement and reaction times at this kind of level.

I think it could be done a few different ways. Maybe an app could be developed for your phone that would run in the background and transmit a pulse at a certain frequency (like bluetooth but a different frequency so it won't get mixed up with all the other signals whizzing around a car), triggered by a CGM reading bgs below 5.0 AND a downward trend. Both conditions would have to be met for a pulse to be received in the engine starter circuits. After 2 minutes, a switch will open, breaking power to the engine.

I don't know much about cars and i'm not a software engineer. This is mostly speculation, but i'm going to have a play with some software and see what i can come up with! If anyone's done something similar, or has ideas or actually knows something about writing software, please let me know!

Sorry for the essay!

Edit: maybe instead of total engine immobilisation, which can be unsafe, just a beep and a light? Thanks @sno0opy
 
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Shannon,

An interesting concept and the first half if it could work would be great idea - an alert that the app sends through your car speaker system would be excellent.

However the second part about engine immobilization just wouldn't be acceptable for safety. Too many situations where a given amount of time to stop a car before its power is cut would be dangerous.

Just as an example, a road with no hard shoulder - you couldn't have a car just stopping as it would cause a disaster. There are plenty of other examples, it wouldn't be something that could e applied.

But having a visual warning - even if not through your speakers just blue tooth it to a dash board mounted unit - all it would need a buzzer and a light so when you see it you know you need to pull over or reach for the jelly babies?
 
That's what i was thinking of when i said about the 2 minute delay - some motorways don't have hard shoulders for a number of miles and pulling into the slow lane to put hazards doesn't make you feel particularly safe. I was thinking more of starting to feel woozy when you drop below readings like 4.5, which sometimes happens to me.
 
Like your lateral thinking .... inventive and deserves some credit @Shannon27
 
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Total engine immobilisation is a non-starter (ahem) in my book. There has to be an element of trust in everything that we do in life, including driving cars. In the same way I would never fit a black box to my car I wouldn't have something like this. I'm sorry but this one gives me 1984 vibes.

We're in extreme infancy with trying to get cars to drive, manoeuvre and stop themselves and they've proved multiple times already that the tech is being put in them before actually being ready/of use. One of the scariest experiences I had in a car was a leased Golf I borrowed from work last year - heading northbound on the M74, middle lane overtaking a lorry as the road was gently curving to the right, when the automatic cruise control system decided the lorry was actually in my path and proceeded to perform a full emergency stop (warning on dash to apply further pressure to brake pedal, hazards on, tyres screeching). Fortunately it was 07:30 in the morning so there was light traffic. Either the system decided that because we were slowly turning right that the lorry was encroaching in my lane (it wasn't) or the sensor was dirty or faulty (and therefore shouldn't be in control of the car in any way). My workaround for the rest of the journey was to change the cruise control mode to speed limiter so I could just leave my foot resting flat to the floor on the accelerator which was the only way to disable the automatic systems and have cruise control.

We're that excited by what we can do in autonomous, we're not stopping to think what it's potentially capable of when it does go wrong. Do humans make mistakes? Sure, all the time. But the tech is a long way off being able to replace them.

Coming back from that tangent, I do agree with sno0opy, some form of warning is a good idea. I use xDrip+ with my Libre and a MiaoMiao2 and that does make loud warnings. I have the phone dash mounted with an always on display so the glucose number is always visible without needing to touch it in case I'd like to glance at it.
 
Antje77 said:
@Jaylee , you may want to chip in :)
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Lol, thanks Antje.
I don't want credit either..

It did come about as a bit of a joke. & i've bit of experince in fitting car alarms & imobilizers.

Firstly. Guys; (@Shannon27 ?) The car will not just stop whilst running if you happen to drop.

That's down to you to find a safe place to pull over. A relay would be acting as an interrupter to the starter motor. (The bit that engages & cranks the engine when starting.)

The initial idea was.
If you are low? The car won't start. Once you have safely pulled over on discovering a low, then treated. Having stopped the engine & folowed the guidelines treating. The vehicle will not start again till the BG is back up?
Though an advanced warning from the likes of xDrip through the Bluetooth enabled car stereo of an impending low so you can do the above would be neat..

It removes without reasonable doubt "the intention" to drive whilst unfit to do so... (Regardless of what you think you might be..)

Nosey copper? "It's OK DVLA, my car is fitted with a Shannon BloodLock!" ;):D

So far in my van all I have is an easy glance visual readout..

image.jpeg
 
Shannon27 said:
That's what i was thinking of when i said about the 2 minute delay - some motorways don't have hard shoulders for a number of miles and pulling into the slow lane to put hazards doesn't make you feel particularly safe. I was thinking more of starting to feel woozy when you drop below readings like 4.5, which sometimes happens to me.
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I believe that the FSL 2 will give a warning at a low level (vibration or audible?) and with a vertical line drop indicating a plummeting blood glucose.
There are 2 pumps that I am aware of that do this in conjunction with their cgm (tandem basal iq and dexcom recently approved by America).
A great idea for anxious parents of type 1 young kids and those with little hypo awareness or those who go low quickly.
I get good signs so just immobilse my engine by yanking out the tube of my Roche pump!
 
What happens if your monitoring equipment malfunctions or is lost/stolen/misplaced? Admittedly this presents a rather serious problem in itself, but being stranded hundreds of miles from home might not help :bag:

Just saying :angelic:
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I believe that the FSL 2 will give a warning at a low level (vibration or audible?) and with a vertical line drop indicating a plummeting blood glucose.
There are 2 pumps that I am aware of that do this in conjunction with their cgm (tandem basal iq and dexcom recently approved by America).
A great idea for anxious parents of type 1 young kids and those with little hypo awareness or those who go low quickly.
I get good signs so just immobilse my engine by yanking out the tube of my Roche pump!
Click to expand...

I have the FSL (1) and the miaomiao. The MM sends signals to my phone which in turn sends them to my watch. I get alarms for Hi and Lo....Hi is just a beep-beep, while Lo is a continuous beep-beep until I turn the alarm off either on the phone or thru my watch
 
Jim Lahey said:
What happens if your monitoring equipment malfunctions or is lost/stolen/misplaced? Admittedly this presents a rather serious problem in itself, but being stranded hundreds of miles from home might not help :bag:

Just saying :angelic:
Click to expand...

If no signal detected after 5 mins (the usual time gap on a CGM and or Libre MM) then the car would continue to work. If a signal is detected after 5 mins then the system would need to act on info received. The system would need to have a 5 minute time period built into it. No signal = no problem
 
porl69 said:
Do you mean the engine wont stop? OR the engine will stop and the car will carry on rolling? Just curious :)
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The engine would not cut out if started. If your too low it won't start. If you stopped it? It will not restart if yer low & haven't registered back in the "zone!"

Jim Lahey said:
What happens if your monitoring equipment malfunctions or is lost/stolen/misplaced? Admittedly this presents a rather serious problem in itself, but being stranded hundreds of miles from home might not help :bag:

Just saying :angelic:
Click to expand...

What happens when you lose your car keys with the transponder that tells the factory security system you ain't trying to steal the the car?

Good shout though...
 
Oh I remember this conversation I think we were talking wanting something similar to closed loop systems like 670G and tandem and Dexcom with basal IQ etc. My pump is set “suspend before low”, it suspends my insulin around 5.0mmol, I’m not hypoing at 5.0 but it gives me time to intervene before going low.
 
The thing is, if it were able to be defeated, some people would defeat it. The type of folk who would buy and install such a system are likely to be vigilant and responsible diabetics anyway, in which case anything more than an audible alarm would be unnecessary. There's little point in enforcing disablement of the vehicle if it can be overridden by the type of people who need the enforcement.

It's a great idea and a cool thought experiment, but on further thought it doesn't really strike me as a viable product.

EDIT: You could have it sound the audible alarm through the car's speakers, but then you'd have to integrate with OEMs if you wanted it to work while the sound system is turned off. And on that basis, I'm ooot :pompous:
 
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Jim Lahey said:
The thing is, if it were able to be defeated, some people would defeat it. The type of folk who would buy and install such a system are likely to be vigilant and responsible diabetics anyway, in which case anything more than an audible alarm would be unnecessary. There's little point in enforcing disablement of the vehicle if it can be overridden by the type of people who need the enforcement.

It's a great idea and a cool thought experiment, but on further thought it doesn't really strike me as a viable product.

EDIT: You could have it sound the audible alarm through the car's speakers, but then you'd have to integrate with the OEMs if you anted it to work while the sound system is turned off. And on that basis, I'm ooot :pompous:
Click to expand...

Yep, I hear you.. I was thinking possible lowering of premium? A bit like those speed trackers for Young drivers?
 
Jaylee said:
The engine would not cut out if started. If your too low it won't start. If you stopped it? It will not restart if yer low & haven't registered back in the "zone!"
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Ok :). I am driving to Scotland (for example) with the Mrs. We stop off after 3 hours of traveling at the services and I am tired and ask my Mrs to drive for a few hours while I have a nap! The car will not start as I am in the car at 4.9. It would need an over ride switch then? Which, upon thinking about it, would be a total waste of time having the system in place to start with :bag::banghead::banghead::hilarious::hilarious:
 
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