EU - In or Out + Poll.

[SunnyExpat]

Well Kevin, it is very early days at the moment but I have been in contact with a couple of brexit labour MP's to basically poke my toe in the water around this issue. I have not as yet had any response (I don't expect to get any for a while) but over on Facebook the idea of a Labour (UK) party does appear to have some support from some of my friends the suggestion is to look at the Labour party of the 1950's and start from there.

I dont know if it will work but if it does you guys will be among the first to know.

They lost every election until 1964.
Even Corbyn could have done that for them.

 

[eddie1968]

Sadly, it's not just the teenagers. It's the rather large numbers of others too. And of course on a subject like this one, however you dress it up, the gamble you have just made is huge and the consequences unknown. That's not an indication of wisdom.


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@tim2000s No one knows everything. No one who voted either way professed to know everything about the issue. People just voted in what they believed in. It's a bit patronising to say people who voted leave didn't grasp the issues and just played Russian roulette at the polling station. Change is unknown and people pray on those who want change with fear of the the unknown. At his inaugural speech President Franklin D. Roosevelt said "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Apt words from the only US President elected for 3 terms and a great leader who rebuilt the US from the depression of the 1930's.

 

[tim2000s]

@eddie1968 That's very true, however, there is also the slight point about the far right and racism coming to the fore, which was predicted.

Since the vote, friends of our's Polish cleaner has been verbally racially abused, and pelted with eggs and tomatoes. She has decided that she doesn't want to live in this country anymore (unsurprisingly) and is leaving for Spain. No matter how you look at it, a majority vote for a position that, in the popular mind, was about immigration, has, as far as these people are concerned, exonerated their views and they are being more vocal with them as they see them as accepted by "the majority" of the British public.

However you look at it, voting out has released a very nasty element in our society, rather than constrained it.

There is a difference between fear and consequences. Understanding what was likely to happen is not fear, it's simply a risk assessment. It seems that more than 50% of those who voted assess risks very differently from the others.


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[SunnyExpat]

@tim2000s No one knows everything. No one who voted either way professed to know everything about the issue. People just voted in what they believed in. It's a bit patronising to say people who voted leave didn't grasp the issues and just played Russian roulette at the polling station. Change is unknown and people pray on those who want change with fear of the the unknown. At his inaugural speech President Franklin D. Roosevelt said "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Apt words from the only US President elected for 3 terms and a great leader who rebuilt the US from the depression of the 1930's.

Roosevelt came in midway through the depression, until, the start of WW2 ended it.
Who knows, maybe our next PM can have the same role in history.

 

[eddie1968]

Roosevelt came in midway through the depression, until, the start of WW2 ended it.
Who knows, maybe our next PM can have the same role in history.

Not midway and he would have been elected sooner if it hadn't been for the fact Hoover ran out his fixed 4 year term. Instead of splitting hairs and being picky try and pick apart the rest of my argument.
Edit: For factual reasons - most historians attribute the Great Depression to have started in 1929 and ended at the end of WW2 in 1945. FDR was the 32nd President of the USA from 1933-1945.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Not midway and he would have been elected sooner if it hadn't been for the fact Hoover ran out his fixed 4 year term. Instead of splitting hairs and being picky try and pick apart the rest of my argument.

You didn't have one.
You still don't, it's just jingoistic national pride, vote for sovereignty, and forget the economics.

 

[eddie1968]

You didn't have one.
You still don't, it's just jingoistic national pride, vote for sovereignty, and forget the economics.

You haven't made one point and are just a sour puss. You won't agree with any of my points so move on to stringing someone else along.

 

[eddie1968]

Roosevelt came in midway through the depression, until, the start of WW2 ended it.
Who knows, maybe our next PM can have the same role in history.

Why don't you correct your mistake then, I can be petty.

 

[eddie1968]

I've made enough points and no longer debating (if you can call it that) with those who disagree with the referdum result. I am not being brought down to the level of those opposing the result. I am not worried, going to chill and not be tempted into being Clinically Depressed or suffer from an anxiety disorder with all the fearmongering going on. Bye and have a nice day !

 

[SunnyExpat]

I've made enough points and no longer debating (if you can call it that) with those who disagree with the referdum result. I am not being brought down to the level of those opposing the result. I am not worried, going to chill and not be tempted into being Clinically Depressed or suffer from an anxiety disorder with all the fearmongering going on. Bye and have a nice day !

I can't actually find any points.
So you're happy you can wave the flag, that's good.
Personally, I've spent the two days facing the reality, and investing heavily, as the flag waving isn't stopping the markets moving if you look.

 

[tim2000s]

Don't know if anyone else saw that the UK's credit rating has been downgraded. The cost of servicing the UK's debt has just increased by £22bn. That's wiped out the EU savings, and we haven't pocketed them yet. This is what "Taking back control" means?


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[lovinglife]

 

[ewelina]

@eddie1968 That's very true, however, there is also the slight point about the far right and racism coming to the fore, which was predicted.

Since the vote, friends of our's Polish cleaner has been verbally racially abused, and pelted with eggs and tomatoes. She has decided that she doesn't want to live in this country anymore (unsurprisingly) and is leaving for Spain. No matter how you look at it, a majority vote for a position that, in the popular mind, was about immigration, has, as far as these people are concerned, exonerated their views and they are being more vocal with them as they see them as accepted by "the majority" of the British public.

However you look at it, voting out has released a very nasty element in our society, rather than constrained it.

There is a difference between fear and consequences. Understanding what was likely to happen is not fear, it's simply a risk assessment. It seems that more than 50% of those who voted assess risks very differently from the others.


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Its a very sad consequence of Brexit. Suddenly its fine to be racist and its deeply depressing to follow latest news. '**** you' painted across front door of Polish Cultural Centre in West London or 'No more Polish Vermin' cards in Cambridgeshire. More and more stories across various social media http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...e-triggers-spike-in-hate-crimes-a3281951.html
Where are the British values we teach children at schools? I hope its not the end of it

 

[tim2000s]

So do I @ewelina, and if I hear one more Leaver say "Well I'm not racist" there is only one answer.

You are responsible. You voted with them. No matter what your personal view. However unpalatable that might be now.


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[Lynbarn]

TIM2000 I expect better from a moderator on this forum you cannot just generalise all 16+million people as being racist's that is more than just offense to me

 

[tim2000s]

TIM2000 I expect better from a moderator on this forum you cannot just generalise all 16+million people as being racist's that is more than just offense to me

Please read my post Lynbarn. Not all of the 16mn+ who voted out are racist. What you are is responsible for the self-legitimisation of those who are. They have taken the vote, that in their view, agrees with them, and started to openly abuse all those they consider undesirable.

It matters not that you aren't racist. The out vote has had the unfortunate consequence that those who are think the majority of the population agree with them and are taking what they feel is legitimate action.

It's deplorable behaviour.

 

[Simon84]

So do I @ewelina, and if I hear one more Leaver say "Well I'm not racist" there is only one answer.

You are responsible. You voted with them. No matter what your personal view. However unpalatable that might be now.


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Unbelievable!! You should resign as an impartial moderator forthwith! I have your post screenshotted BTW!

 

[zand]

TIM2000 I expect better from a moderator on this forum you cannot just generalise all 16+million people as being racist's that is more than just offense to me

He didn't. He said all leave voters voted with the racists. That's a fact.

 

[lovinglife]

This thread is getting pretty horrid now - to be honest we need to unite and we are not going to do that if the innies keep name calling the outies and vice versa - we are all good people here no matter what our politics - I haven't enabled the racists by voting to leave - both sets of voters are doing that together by tit for tatting- we need to get past what happened and find a way forward for everyone who lives here - who ever they are - the only way for evil to succeed is for the good to do nothing

I have stayed out of this thread as I find some of the posts disturbing but had to just say what I have said - not going to say anymore

 

[Lynbarn]

Its a very sad consequence of Brexit. Suddenly its fine to be racist and its deeply depressing to follow latest news. '**** you' painted across front door of Polish Cultural Centre in West London or 'No more Polish Vermin' cards in Cambridgeshire. More and more stories across various social media http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...e-triggers-spike-in-hate-crimes-a3281951.html
Where are the British values we teach children at schools? I hope its not the end of it

No It is not OK to be a racist and I really think you should get to understand what the term racist means, we are all part of the Human Race and I for one do not consider anyone to be above or below me in this matter, intellect however may be another matter, these so called people who have done this need bring to justice, tell the police of anything that happens also if you can with going hurt take photos on the phone and send copies to the police and finally inform your local MP and paper,as far as I am concerned it is zero tolerance in this matter.