Exercise... and

1Kirstygrace

Member
Messages
12
Two questions for my informed friends here!...

1. Can/does strength training (no cardio) cause RHers problems with insulin response/secretion post-exercise? I ask as even after short sessions of lifting things I feel shaky and very responsive to carbs after..

2. My dietician suggested I find out my insulin levels in general. Is a C-Peptide test the correct test and most reliable? Would it be more useful tested after eating some form of carb to see my body's response/if it's secreting too much insulin, rather than taken fasted - surely insulin is dormant until its needed and would give a false/low reading taken fasted!?
- Is a blood or urine test better?!

If anybody has had experience with either Id be most grateful if you could share... Than you!
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,939
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Two questions for my informed friends here!...

1. Can/does strength training (no cardio) cause RHers problems with insulin response/secretion post-exercise? I ask as even after short sessions of lifting things I feel shaky and very responsive to carbs after..

2. My dietician suggested I find out my insulin levels in general. Is a C-Peptide test the correct test and most reliable? Would it be more useful tested after eating some form of carb to see my body's response/if it's secreting too much insulin, rather than taken fasted - surely insulin is dormant until its needed and would give a false/low reading taken fasted!?
- Is a blood or urine test better?!

If anybody has had experience with either Id be most grateful if you could share... Than you!

In my experience, gentle prolonged exercise is so much better for blood glucose control. If you can, some resistance work taken gently will benefit you.

There is another fasting insulin test as well as c-peptide.
If like me you have (had) high insulin levels (hyperinsulinaemia) and insulin resistance, these tests will tell you.
I think you are alluding to a two hour oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) this is no longer a fasting test but an extended OGTT, is. The eOGTT can give so much information because it can find your spike and first and second insulin response and how long after the glucose you go into a hypo episode.

Yes, insulin is relatively dormant until triggered by glucose, there would still be a residual amount but nothing that would cause a hypo.

If you haven't already started testing with your glucometer and recording everything to see how food affects your blood glucose levels, then do so. It is surprising how beneficial it is to record everything. Test, test, and test, record and test.
As I found that eating even some very low GI carbs are not suitable for me.
 
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Brunneria

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Retired Moderator
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21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Hi :)

Exercise is known to decrease insulin resistance AND use up the available glucose that is stored in muscles ready for use. Either of these things could be happening, and resulting in your shakiness after exercise.

The more insulin people have floating about in their blood stream, and using on a regular basis to deal with carb intake, then the more insulin resistance they may have, although there are other factors involved too - obesity, activity, medications and other medical conditions all factor in. We RHers usually produce a lot of insulin, so it makes sense that we may have insulin resistance. There are a few tried and tested ways to reduce insulin resistance, and exercise is probably the biggest and fastest one. Then come lowering carbs in food and fasting (which actually just means eating less regularly to allow insulin levels to drop a bit) and some medications can help too.

Insulin resistance can be tested. I am not aware that it is available on the NHS but some private companies are willing to do the test privately. A couple of members have done this recently. It involves sending off a blood sample. Insulin is stored in the pancreas ready for use, then released into the blood stream. There is a constant level of 'background' insulin that is always present. This is measured by the fasting insulin test. Then there is additional insulin released after food is eaten. The fasting insulin level is a useful gauge to assess how much insulin resistance we have going on, although it can vary depending on recent carb intake, exercise, etc.

Regarding your exercise affecting carb and insulin, the body holds stores of glucose in the form of glycogen in the liver and the large muscles, ready for action if needed. This is often referred to on the forum as a 'liver dump' where those glucose stores are released into the blood stream. It can happen when he have gone a while without food, or when we are stressed, or active enough for our blood glucose to drop a little. The body then thinks 'aha, I need to top up glucose levels' and dumps some glucose into the bloodstream. It is a milder version of what happens when we experience a hypo and our body sorts it out without us eating something.

So if you exercise enough that your muscles become less insulin resistant AND you burn up available glucose from your bloodstream in order to fuel those muscles, you may well experience lowered glucose levels, and even a liver dump to release more glucose to provide more fuel.

Some people 'carb load' before exercise to ensure they have enough glucose around. Personally, I find that pretty disastrous, since my RH trumps the carb loading, and I end up with a double whammy hypo. lol. Instead, I prefer to eat a proper low carb meal 2-3 hours before exercise so that the fats and proteins in the food drip feed energy throughout the exercise. I also carry slower release snacks like nut bars and dark chocolate (oooh the hardship!) rather than energy drinks or sweets, because the slower release is unlikely to trigger RH.

Mind you, when I am properly doing very low carb I can exercise for a long time on no food at all, because I am in ketosis, and my muscles just love running on ketones.

Hope that helps.
 

1Kirstygrace

Member
Messages
12
Hi :)

Exercise is known to decrease insulin resistance AND use up the available glucose that is stored in muscles ready for use. Either of these things could be happening, and resulting in your shakiness after exercise.

The more insulin people have floating about in their blood stream, and using on a regular basis to deal with carb intake, then the more insulin resistance they may have, although there are other factors involved too - obesity, activity, medications and other medical conditions all factor in. We RHers usually produce a lot of insulin, so it makes sense that we may have insulin resistance. There are a few tried and tested ways to reduce insulin resistance, and exercise is probably the biggest and fastest one. Then come lowering carbs in food and fasting (which actually just means eating less regularly to allow insulin levels to drop a bit) and some medications can help too.

Insulin resistance can be tested. I am not aware that it is available on the NHS but some private companies are willing to do the test privately. A couple of members have done this recently. It involves sending off a blood sample. Insulin is stored in the pancreas ready for use, then released into the blood stream. There is a constant level of 'background' insulin that is always present. This is measured by the fasting insulin test. Then there is additional insulin released after food is eaten. The fasting insulin level is a useful gauge to assess how much insulin resistance we have going on, although it can vary depending on recent carb intake, exercise, etc.

Regarding your exercise affecting carb and insulin, the body holds stores of glucose in the form of glycogen in the liver and the large muscles, ready for action if needed. This is often referred to on the forum as a 'liver dump' where those glucose stores are released into the blood stream. It can happen when he have gone a while without food, or when we are stressed, or active enough for our blood glucose to drop a little. The body then thinks 'aha, I need to top up glucose levels' and dumps some glucose into the bloodstream. It is a milder version of what happens when we experience a hypo and our body sorts it out without us eating something.

So if you exercise enough that your muscles become less insulin resistant AND you burn up available glucose from your bloodstream in order to fuel those muscles, you may well experience lowered glucose levels, and even a liver dump to release more glucose to provide more fuel.

Some people 'carb load' before exercise to ensure they have enough glucose around. Personally, I find that pretty disastrous, since my RH trumps the carb loading, and I end up with a double whammy hypo. lol. Instead, I prefer to eat a proper low carb meal 2-3 hours before exercise so that the fats and proteins in the food drip feed energy throughout the exercise. I also carry slower release snacks like nut bars and dark chocolate (oooh the hardship!) rather than energy drinks or sweets, because the slower release is unlikely to trigger RH.

Mind you, when I am properly doing very low carb I can exercise for a long time on no food at all, because I am in ketosis, and my muscles just love running on ketones.

Hope that helps.


This certainly does help - Yes, I used to exercise 6days a week, sometime twice a day when I was in Jiujitsu training :/ So I may have pushed it to the limit.....I have been out of training however for over 8months now and only do two short resistance strength training sessions and feel worse now than I did in full training afterwards shaking!! I am assuming the low weight/low glycogen stores have something to do with this also.

Forgive me; as I am fairly new to all this! - but what does insulin resistant mean, exactly?? I though us RHers have too much/secrete too much insulin making us very reactive? and I thought insulin resistance was more a Diabetes problem or an overweight issue and the opposite of RH? - (This is probably a very mislead, apologies !!)
Thankyou so much for such an informative reply Brunneria, it is much appreciated :D
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Insulin resistance is a big subject. The best think I can do is direct you to Jason Fung's blog where he writes about it a lot.
Have a good rummage and read about it.
https://idmprogram.com/?s=insulin+resistance

However, it is worth remembering that he is writing with a couple of priorities - he works mainly with T2 diabetics, and he advocates fasting for them. So you will find those mentioned a lot, and that won't necessarily be of interest to you. However, what he says about how/why insulin resistance develops and how it works is very useful to us RHers. :) particularly his sections on what IR is, and its relation to hyperinsulinemia.
 
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Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,939
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
My experience of how my condition developed over time, leads me to that if you are producing too much insulin, the hyperinsulinaemia follows, then on top of this, high insulin resistance occurs to make your pancreas create even more. Because the insulin resistance doesn't get rid of the high glucose levels, this also on top of everything will exacerbate the symptoms and problems.
Regardless of how many hypers and hypos you have, insulin resistance will always be a factor until your body adapts to blood glucose levels that don't fluctuate up and down.
The reason very low carb diet works is because you do not create the insulin, this in turn, gets rid of the excessive insulin and your glucose levels drop accordingly.
At the same time your insulin resistance begins to work as the amount of fat in your organs dissipate.
Excess insulin creates a fatty liver, kidney and your function tests should show this.
Because I have achieved a low carb lifestyle, my health has returned. With no endocrine issues unless I go back to carbs!

I know this because of my last eOGTT, which showed how bad my tolerance is to glucose and of course carbs!

Best wishes
 
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