Experimenting with small amounts of carbs

Adm_Mad

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I (finally!) had my proper post-diagnosis appointment with my GP yesterday. She was very understanding and non-judgemental, both of the diagnosis itself and my reaction to it, which has included feelings of suicidality, both short-term and in the long-term if things don't progress well, after reading some studies about the mortality rates and causes of death of type 2 diabetics in Australia, and of type 2 diabetes information generally. As I'm sure you all know, it's pretty overwhelming how much information is out there, and how confusing and contradictory a lot of it is!

My HbA1C as taken from a blood test about three weeks ago was 9.3% / 81. I'm due for my next one in July, but my GP wants me to see her monthly until then, to monitor both my physical and mental health. She asked if I'd consider going on antidepressants but definitely not as they can cause weight gain. The good news is she agreed with me I don't need to make an appointment to see a "diabetes counsellor" as I seem to be pretty on top of the ins and out of the disease and how to manage it so don't need actual education.

The really good news is that she hasn't put me on medication, and is giving me three months to try to manage with diet and exercise alone.

The last two weeks I've just been focused on losing as much weight as possible and eating no sugar or carb-heavy foods, you know, the usual. I don't consider my eating to be keto as that's not specifically what I'm aiming for, about am tallying about 20-23 g carbs a day, sometimes lower.

I'm still a bit too scared to, but am CAUTIOUSLY considering experimenting with some carbs to see what they actually do to my BG. I suspect I'll function better knowing for sure how deadly they are, rather than living with the unknown (partly to avoid meltdown situations like being misled that something is no sugar or low carb and finding out it's not and having literally no idea how high I'll spike). Like, drink a few sips of Coke, eat half a slice of bread, or a couple of mouthfuls of rice, or a forkful of pasta, etc. (Not all at once, obviously!)

My question is.... to see the effect of the carbs, when after eating them do I do a finger prick test? Two hours after doesn't feel right as it's not a full meal. Do I do it straight after? Half an hour? An hour?

Like I say, I'm not feeling brave enough to do this just yet, and may pike out and not do it at all.
 

Arab Horse

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884
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Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Sorry you are feeling so low, hopefully you will feel better when you know things are improving.

My journey may cheer you up!

I was diagnosed quite by chance five years ago at the age of 70. I had gone for my free NHS medical having not seen my Dr for many, many years and was diagnosed as T2. I was not over weight and had no symptoms at all despite having a HbA1C of 10.4 and a fasting glucose of 18.6. I was told I may have been diabetic for up to 10 years and was in danger of a stroke and/or heart attack.

I was still working but as I worked in a lab and never had time to stop all day to eat or drink a lot of the time (no eating or drinking in labs) and a long journey to work so often didn't eat from 6.00am until 9 .00pm and then had ready meals or something quick and easy; I knew I had to stop work and completely alter my life.

At first I went to the Desmond day and followed their advice with very little progress so, being a biochemist I started to research on line and found Prof Roy Taylor and all the others such as Jason Fung etc.

It took me a long time to see much improvement but things did improve and I sort of got my glucose under reasonable control most of the time. I hate the diet I have to eat but need to stick with it.

Don't panic as I don't have all the nasty side effect and I am sure you won't either if you are careful.

Good luck
 
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Richard'63

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HighCarbLowCarb.png
By pure coincidence I carried out an experiment yesterday, I'm sure the regulars on here will be horrified by the experiment. :)
And it uses a lot of test strips.
I had just had two days of carnivore, (ham, eggs, cheese, butter, pork shoulder steaks, high meat sausages, burgers), and a couple of portobello mushrooms, and I woke up hungry. By two o'clock I was starving and this is when the experiment starts, BS 5.7.

I ate a whole white bread baton with butter, ham and cheese (total carb overload), then tested every half hour until I peaked 60 to 90 minutes later at 10.5 and 10.3. Next reading I was down to 6.2 I didn't think that was too bad, nearly back to where I had started after two hours. Then it all went a bit weird. I dozed off for an hour, next test I had gone up again, not wanting to believe this is tested twice more on two different fingers, the numbers were all high and completely different from each other. Shortly afterwards I started drinking red wine and continued drinking red wine, my numbers started coming down. Two and a half hours later, my numbers were respectable and I ate roast pork with steamed veg. My numbers stayed low. Woke up at half two this morning needing a pee (too much wine disturbs my sleep), raised quite a lot of foam peeing into the loo which I usually take as a sign I'm peeing out sugar (sorry if that last bit was too graphic).
This morning my BS was slightly high.

I think I might try a low carb no booze day today.

Here's the chart.
 

Arab Horse

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That's where I am going wrong, I need more red wine; really awful but needs must. Ha ha.
 

Rachox

Oracle
Retired Moderator
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15,810
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I reversed my Type 2
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Hi @Adm_Mad , I won’t comment on the carb exposure experiment as even though I’m nearly two years down the line from diagnosis it’s not something I’d entertain even now, I’m too much of a chicken :chicken:
However can I suggest that rather than reading mortality rates and causes of death in type 2 diabetics, try reading the Success Stories forum here, in the early days when I was struggling, I read some of the stories there, very inspiring and they strengthened my resolve to get control. I posted this update last May one year from my diagnosis:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/one-year-on.146051/
Have a read and look at the other posts there, it’s a very uplifting section of the forum. Hope that helps you and you find some comfort there.

Edit for typo.
 
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Bluetit1802

Legend
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25,216
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Type 2 (in remission!)
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Diet only
Hi @Adm_Mad

I wonder if you are too near the beginning of your journey to start experimenting? You already know what carbs do to you - that is how you ended up with your diagnosis, and your HbA1c was fairly high

To be honest, drinking a few sips of Coke, eating half a slice of bread, or a couple of mouthfuls of rice, or a forkful of pasta, etc is unlikely to make a lot of difference if they are eaten with one of your normal low carb meals. If you intend just eating them alone, as a snack, for example, then there may be a rise but not enough to tell you anything useful. And you must remember that if you actually crave these things, then giving in to them could lead down a rough path. Like an ex-smoker who suddenly decides to have a ciggie - this is likely to lead to a pack of ciggies in next to no time. So, please be careful.
 
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Caeseji

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I (finally!) had my proper post-diagnosis appointment with my GP yesterday. She was very understanding and non-judgemental, both of the diagnosis itself and my reaction to it, which has included feelings of suicidality, both short-term and in the long-term if things don't progress well, after reading some studies about the mortality rates and causes of death of type 2 diabetics in Australia, and of type 2 diabetes information generally. As I'm sure you all know, it's pretty overwhelming how much information is out there, and how confusing and contradictory a lot of it is!

My HbA1C as taken from a blood test about three weeks ago was 9.3% / 81. I'm due for my next one in July, but my GP wants me to see her monthly until then, to monitor both my physical and mental health. She asked if I'd consider going on antidepressants but definitely not as they can cause weight gain. The good news is she agreed with me I don't need to make an appointment to see a "diabetes counsellor" as I seem to be pretty on top of the ins and out of the disease and how to manage it so don't need actual education.

The really good news is that she hasn't put me on medication, and is giving me three months to try to manage with diet and exercise alone.

The last two weeks I've just been focused on losing as much weight as possible and eating no sugar or carb-heavy foods, you know, the usual. I don't consider my eating to be keto as that's not specifically what I'm aiming for, about am tallying about 20-23 g carbs a day, sometimes lower.

I'm still a bit too scared to, but am CAUTIOUSLY considering experimenting with some carbs to see what they actually do to my BG. I suspect I'll function better knowing for sure how deadly they are, rather than living with the unknown (partly to avoid meltdown situations like being misled that something is no sugar or low carb and finding out it's not and having literally no idea how high I'll spike). Like, drink a few sips of Coke, eat half a slice of bread, or a couple of mouthfuls of rice, or a forkful of pasta, etc. (Not all at once, obviously!)

My question is.... to see the effect of the carbs, when after eating them do I do a finger prick test? Two hours after doesn't feel right as it's not a full meal. Do I do it straight after? Half an hour? An hour?

Like I say, I'm not feeling brave enough to do this just yet, and may pike out and not do it at all.
Your meter will be your guide here but I would hazard to say try letting your body rest with low carb and so on for a bit before you start to build back up. Glad that you finally had at least some sort of appointment to confirm things and that your GP is supportive of you there. It all depends what you combine the carbs with, if there is some fat in there you could have a late spike at like 3 hours or something like that (I think they called it the pizza effect on here) but Rachox is right, look to the success stories and know that most of these mortality rates and estimations? It comes from non-compliance, the people doctors see coming through the door that don't do a thing about their lives post diagnosis. So please try not to fret, you're doing the right thing by trying to get on top of this!
 

Adm_Mad

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Type 2
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Thanks guys, especially @Richard’63 for doing for science what we are too scared to, LOL.
 
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enb54

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265
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After my first initial diagnoses for type 2 diabetes (FBG about 20) in 2000 I followed the then Canadian Diabetes Association food guidelines for about one month and was not really getting much better. I decided to conduct some food experiments using my newly acquired blood glucose monitor. Those food experiments consisted of taking an initial BG reading before eating anything, then eating one food item, let's just say a bowl of oatmeal porridge. After finishing the porridge, test every 15 minutes for the first hour, then once an hour for the next 2 hours, recording the results. After about 2 weeks and many dollars worth of test strips I had a list of most of the stuff that caused my blood glucose measurements to negate the suggested T2D dietary guidelines. I then started consuming foods that did not significantly increase my BG measurements and unsurprisingly, started to get better. After about 16 months and losing 60 pounds, BG levels were normal and I was removed from taking metformin by my physician. Now, 18 years later I fell off the wagon and have been rediagnosed with T2D, but surprisingly the same old dietary guidelines (albeit somewhat modified) are being forced on the suffering. As others here have suggested, your blood glucose monitor is your best friend in guiding your intake of food and drink. You can follow any food regime you want as long as your BG monitor agrees with your food decisions. Am quite confident that most of us with T2D will benefit more from following the blood glucose monitor than from near useless programs designed to extract maximum cash and inflict ever increasing anguish. This internet site and others like it will hopefully cause the mainstream medical community to finally implement positive change to a broken T2D treatment program that effectively does not work.
 
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Resurgam

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It might seem a long time to wait (it actually seems a long time AGO now, in my journey) but I'd really recommend staying away from dense carbs for several months - as it took my metabolism about 4 months to really recover - to the point where I was seeing normal readings.
I was happily jogging along for a couple of months, maybe half way into the third one and my post prandial readings began to be really erratic - after being quite steady for weeks.
There was about a month of ping pong going on, and they, without changing anything, my numbers just dropped down week by week - so at the six month point I got the amazingly normal Hba1c of 41.
I still don't eat carbs at two and 1/2 years from diagnosis - I know that system has never worked well for me, that carbs has always equalled weight gain, and now it is well and truly broken, so I stick to eating the good stuff.
 

Chook

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I have an occasional encounter with carby things and it never turns out good.

For instance a couple of weeks ago i visited a very elderly old friend who had baked my pre-diagnosis favourite cake. I didn't want to disappoint her so I ate the chunky slice given to me. Within an hour i was struggling to keep my eyes open, I fell asleep on the sofa when I got home and finally tested about three hours after eating the cake and BG was sky high so heaven knows what it was like at one or two hours. I then spent the next couple of hours thirsty and oh so tired and irritable. Not an experience I want to repeat.
 
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Prem51

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@Adm_Mad Many of us were terrified after googling the possible diabetic complications after first being told we were diabetic.
I certainly was and it gave me the motivation to immediately cut down on sugar, carbs and alcohol as much as possible. I lost weight and reduced my HbA1c by my 3 month retest. After my next 12 month retest when I had got into the non-diabetic range (39) I did relax and started increasing my carb intake, though still a lot less than I used to consume.
My weight and bg readings have since crept up, though both are still lower than when I was diagnosed.

I would suggest you continue your low carbing at least until your retest in July. See what your HbA1c figure is like then before experimenting with adding carbs. Small amounts will not make much difference. You would have to try reasonable amounts of foods/drinks and test before eating, then two hours later to see how they have affected your bg.
 
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nomoredonuts

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Yep @Adm_Mad Wot they said!
In an earlier response I mentioned baby-steps...;)
I was one of (I suspect) many people who were so angry at becoming diabetic that I wanted to try anything and everything to get rid of it. Once I started low-carbing, the new regime fell into place and although I miss many things, I would settle for a low BG reading over most of them. You see, I don't love bread, pasta, chocolate (donuts!) any less. But I want life more than I want sugar!
 
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1spuds

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After my first initial diagnoses for type 2 diabetes (FBG about 20) Am quite confident that most of us with T2D will benefit more from following the blood glucose monitor than from near useless programs designed to extract maximum cash and inflict ever increasing anguish. This internet site and others like it will hopefully cause the mainstream medical community to finally implement positive change to a broken T2D treatment program that effectively does not work.
Well said and I agree 100%!!!!!!
 

1spuds

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Yep @Adm_Mad Wot they said!
In an earlier response I mentioned baby-steps...;)
You see, I don't love bread, pasta, chocolate (donuts!) any less. But I want life more than I want sugar!
SMART SMART SMART. That is the bottom line.

So much excellent advice in this thread IMO.
 
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