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Fasting BGLs how to get them lower?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Deediabetic, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. Deediabetic

    Deediabetic · Active Member

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    Hi all

    My BGLs are great and within range for the day and get lower and into the low 5s by the late afternoon. My post prandial dinner BGLs are always in the 6's but no matter what I do my morning fasting BGLs are always higher than my BGLs during the rest of the day. My post prandial breakfast reading is always lower than my morning fasting BGL. I know about 'dawn phenomenon' and 'foot on the floor' but I'm wondering what I can do to get those fasting numbers down or if this is common for type 2s?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Master

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    When were you diagnosed? If fairly recently, you’ll likely find that FBG levels come down in due course - it’s often the last number to come down and what you describe isn’t uncommon.

    I’ve been using a Libre for some time and consistently the period of the day where my BG is highest is between 6am and 12 noon. The lowest is between midnight and 6am. This applies no matter what range I’m in overall, whether I’m eating once or twice a day and doesn’t vary according to the amount of exercise. Yes, individual readings pre and post prandial or pre and post exercise may vary, but these overall trends are consistent.

    If your levels are generally where you want them to be, I wouldn’t fret about FBG. It’s affected by so many things - sleep, stress and so on too.


    Edited for typo
     
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    #2 Goonergal, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:49 AM
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
  3. catinahat

    catinahat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Personally I have come to the conclusion that along with many other natural bodily functions there is nothing I can do to influence my fasting numbers. After 7 year's of low carb, intermittent fasting and HbA1c consistently in the mid 30's my fasting numbers are still the highest of the day. The only thing I've found that will give me fasting numbers I'm happy with is a few glasses of wine or a nice single malt the evening before, a very enjoyable strategy but I doubt that poisoning my liver every night is a practical solution.
    So I decided to ignore my fasting levels, let my body do it's thing and concentrate on fighting the battle's I have a chance of winning.
     
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  4. Deediabetic

    Deediabetic · Active Member

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    I was diagnosed end of June. I wouldn't worry so much it's just that we are trying to start a family and when I visited the specialist diabetic pregnancy unit at my local hospital to get the go ahead to try conceive, they gave me table with BGL targets to keep to during pregnancy. I've managed to keep all within those targets 99% of the time except for my fasting BGLs. I've been trying hard to keep the fasting BGLs down and it's really frustrating because nothing seems to work. I think I'll just have to live with it because it seems no matter what I do, my body just won't play ball. :/
     
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  5. Deediabetic

    Deediabetic · Active Member

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    Haha.... I'll have to try the low carb booze one day. We are trying to get pregnant so alcohol has been banished for the foreseeable future!
     
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  6. OB87

    OB87 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Try a low carb snack before bed. I was pregnant recently and noticed my fasting were starting to rise, as I had to keep it under 5.2 I started having a snack before bed and it worked and I was usually in the 4s when I woke up. Small bit of cheese or cheese spread on low carb crackers or nuts.
     
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  7. Robbity2

    Robbity2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Like others, I usually ignore my fasting glucose figures as my liver has had many years experience of setting me up for the day, so I let it be, and mainly concentrate on my pre and post meal figures which for the most part are under my control. My FBGs can vary from low 5s to high 7s but are usually in the sixes, but most importantly, they have little or no effect on my actual HbA1c results.

    I used to wear an original Libre occasionally, and I found that if I was eating a slightly more strict low carb (< 50g carbs, normal full fat) diet my overall levels were more stable and I tended not to see a morning liver dump bump.
     
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  8. SheilaCanning

    SheilaCanning Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've been struggling with the same thing. My fasting blood is consistently 8.4. The rest of the day I can go as low as 5.5, have an average of 6.4 ish which goes up to 7.7. At my last diabetic review, I was told I am now prediabetic so it all seems like it's going well. I agree with catinahat that if I have some sparkling wine the night before that's when it will drop which lovely tho' it is is clearly not a good idea! It sounds like you are doing really well otherwise so I think it's just one of those pesky things our bodies do to us which is out of our control. Try and relax about it.
     
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  9. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I have a multi-faceted approach to diabetes management, biased towards exercise and those Doctors (Dr Ted Naiman, Dr Shawn Baker Dr Jamie Seaman, Dr Garbriel Lyon) and Keto leaning sportsmen and women, who have had blood sugar issues themselves, and or who actively treat clients.....and get results.

    Two things to try are to move your last meal of the day to an earlier time (mine is somewhere between 15:00 and 16:00 most days). Maybe I will get a few hisses for this, but also reducing fat (Dr Naiman is the authority on this method, where he says there could be a delay in the glucose rise due to fat suppression, i.e. dietary fat being is excess of what is being used). I would say the less fat option is potentially applicable if a person has what could be considered excess body fat that can be used in place of dietary fat - the fat would be replaced with lean protein.
     
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  10. AGC_68

    AGC_68 · Well-Known Member

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    Hey there @Mbaker

    I agree broadly with what you are saying.
    People forget that the 1st law if thermodynamics does still apply. Consume more energy than you need and eventually your bloods glucose levels and fat levels will reflect this excess of energy. Too much fat or sugar in the blood are both not good for you long term. Both will in different ways lead to the same end point of insulin resistance (IR).

    I think if you are a newly diagnosed T2, at a point where your BGLs are very high it makes a lot of sense to pay attention to reducing your carb intake dramatically, you want your BG and insulin to come down. You will inevitably have to up your fats a little and you might want to keep protein a little lower than people like Naiman suggest to start with so that you tackle the high glycaemic state initially. Once your glycaemic and insulinemic state is in a better place start upping the protein a bit more. However, you must still pay attention to energy balance. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If your average energy consumption is more than your body expends (fat, carbs, or even protein) then you are back on the road to IR. The good thing about protein of course, is that it is bloody hard to eat too much of it as it really fills you up. But if you wanted to, you could still take in a fat and carb cocktail that takes you well over you energy requirements. All of that, unchecked over time, will eventually lead to higher BG levels and insulin resistance.

    You cannot get past the fact that you do need a certain amount of protein to maintain the physical structure of your body's lean mass, you have to eat at least that much protein. More protein than that won't do most people any harm, BUT we are all different, therefore it is wise to track the consequences of changes you make in your diet, people's genetics and physiologies are different and their underlying health conditions are different. These affect how the macronutrients they consume are metabolised and that affects the levels of glucose, fats and insulin in their blood. Lifestyles, diets, medications may have to change accordingly.

    For me the take home message when dealing with T2 is:
    • eat enough complete protein to maintain your body's physical structure (non negotiable)
    • do not consume more total energy than you need, in the long term you must maintain energy balance at a healthy bodyweight (non negotiable - unless you have sound medical or lifestyle reasons to increase the amount of energy you have in storage)
    • balance you carbs and fats in a way that allows you to maintain a healthy state (blood glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides) but also enables an intake of essential micronutrients (vitamins and minerals), fibre to feed the microbiome etc. (balance negotiable to some degree - but essential fatty acids must be consumed, that is not negotiable)
    • if despite doing the best you can with the above your genetics or any underlying health conditions require supplemental or medicinal support use that support. The goal is to be healthy for yourself and your family. Some people with T2 feel bad if they have to go on meds. They really shouldn't. Do the best that you can with diet and lifestyle, but if you need meds and supplements take them. Be healthy.
    Some people forget that the 1st law of thermodynamics always applies. Always. This doesn't mean that macronutrient ratios make no difference, nor that tweaking those ratios cannot bring massive health benefits and make losing weight easier due to the way our physiology and brain chemistry has been formed by evolution. But it does mean that you cannot take in more energy than you need no matter what your macronutrient ratios are. You will always have to pay the piper his due, more energy taken in than you expend = more energy stored = problems down the line when that storage exceeds safe limits in terms of sugar levels and fat levels. Track your stats and keep adapting your lifestyle, diet and if needed, meds too, according to your stats.
     
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    #10 AGC_68, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:51 AM
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  11. AGC_68

    AGC_68 · Well-Known Member

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    The short and long term consequences of upping protein intake on IR and BG levels are hard to disentangle from other factors. But most studies do show that, long term, for most people upping protein intake without increasing your total calorie intake, has a lot of benefits both for IR and weight loss.
    @Mbaker as a fellow martial arts and exercise enthusiast with T2, you might enjoy reading this:
    "High dietary protein intake, reducing or eliciting insulin resistance?"
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2014123#:~:text=sensitivity improving strategy.-,Dietary proteins have an insulinotropic effect and thus promote insulin,glucose clearance from the blood.&text=3-,In the long term, however, a high dietary protein intake,risk of type 2 diabetes.
     
  12. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. "Associated" means nothing as far as I am concerned, RCT's are a little better. There have been plenty of protein overfeeding studies and the results are increased fat loss, no results report increased risk of diabetes.

    I take my protein knowledge for Don Layman (via and with Gabrielle Lyon) and Stu Philips. I have no problem with real observational data such a legacy and in particular active tribes; but for relevance what my results show are my guide.

    Here's my todays food intake, at least 200 grams of protein at around 190 lbs:

    19.01.22.BD.JPG
    I am happy with the below results which do not indicate IR

    19.01.22.BG.JPG

    Whilst I have a con-founder of working out (which reduces IR also), this is a lifestyle for me.
     
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