Type 2 Fasting but still high? why?

[kimyeomans]

I recently got the free trial Libre 2 system in order to understand and improve control of my BS. First week I thought I would carry on as 'normal' and observe what patterns emerge, then week 2 use it to apply some kind of control, ie fast and exercise to bring down high's. I am currently towards the end of the first week during which I had seen significant spikes after certain foods, as to be expected. However I am now experiencing continuous highs unexpectedly. For example, yesterday I had my last meal at around 6.00pm chicken and vegetables, I generally follow a low carb diet. Throughout the evening I got persistent alarms, 13+ and settled down around 1.00am although still high 10 to 11 until this morning. What concerns me, is I did deep breathing exercises (normal for me) which was followed by a sharp rise 13+ so went for a bike ride, continued to rise to 15?? I have not yet eaten today to try to bring it down, but at 12.30 still at 12.6?
I have checked against finger pricking, may be a point or 2 out but still high.
medication is metformin
Anyone got any ideas what may be going on?

 

[Lamont D]

Exercise is so good for your body's health.
But it can cause the spikes you are referring to.
As you use energy, your body naturally provides more from glucogenisis.
As you have just started low carb, your body still wants the energy you get from food from carbs, sugars.
Until you give your body time to adjust to your new dietary regime, it will still be acting upon vigorous exercise.

If it is still rising whilst fasting, are you drinking something other than water?
If you have milk or sugar in it, this may be the cause.
What vegetables do you have. Starchy veg have a impact on your BG levels.

It will eventually start to come down with dietary and intermittent fasting.
It does take time.

In my experience, walking is really brilliant for BG control.
I can't do too much exercise, especially strenuous stuff.
So after eating, around fifteen minutes after, a walk for fifteen minutes, is known to help regulate the the high spikes.
Some T2s just can't do fasting or exercising, it is so individual. Everyone is different.

Take your time into all what is happening. It won't happen overnight.

Best wishes.

 

[Lainie71]

I cannot fast that well, my levels will just keep rising. I tend to just grab some pecan nuts to to stop the rise. I do exercise and I think I am very low carb now. If I push myself too hard with the cardio my bg will rise but fall pretty quickly afterwards. I tend to do a lot more weights now and outdoor runs when I can, if I cannot run I use the spin bike. I am generally in the 5s during the day. My fasting morning levels are anything from 6 - 7.5 region. I tend to have my main meal around about 2pm work permitting and if I do get hungry in between, I will have green tea, cucumbers or some type of meat. Works for me but it took time. Stick with it, its worth it

 

[Chris24Main]

Hi @kimyeomans - in some ways I was where you are now about a year ago - after making a firm decision, I thought I had cracked it after a few days, and a year on I'm still discovering whole swathes of things I know nothing about; whatever is going on in your body - it has taken years to get to this stage, so one of the key things is learning to give yourself time to change.

Marathon, not a sprint, whatever analogy floats your boat, but try to find a way to settle in for the long run.

With blood glucose at these levels, it is concerning - but concerning mainly if they stay that way for many years from now. You have time to get on top of this, you have time to figure out what works for you...

Doing what you are doing is the first step, you're doing great...

 

[MrsA2]

I recently got the free trial Libre 2 system in order to understand and improve control of my BS. First week I thought I would carry on as 'normal' and observe what patterns emerge, then week 2 use it to apply some kind of control, ie fast and exercise to bring down high's. I am currently towards the end of the first week during which I had seen significant spikes after certain foods, as to be expected. However I am now experiencing continuous highs unexpectedly. For example, yesterday I had my last meal at around 6.00pm chicken and vegetables, I generally follow a low carb diet. Throughout the evening I got persistent alarms, 13+ and settled down around 1.00am although still high 10 to 11 until this morning. What concerns me, is I did deep breathing exercises (normal for me) which was followed by a sharp rise 13+ so went for a bike ride, continued to rise to 15?? I have not yet eaten today to try to bring it down, but at 12.30 still at 12.6?
I have checked against finger pricking, may be a point or 2 out but still high.
medication is metformin
Anyone got any ideas what may be going on?

It's rare but not unheard of for a T2 to then go and get T1 . Are you also checking ketones? If so and those high too, get to hospital ASAP.

If no or low ketones and bg doesn't start going down I'd suggest getting medical opinion

Another possibility is that you are brewing some sort of infection/illness

Could also be that libre is failing.

Keep monitoring, keep aware and don't be afraid to go hospital

 

[KennyA]

I recently got the free trial Libre 2 system in order to understand and improve control of my BS. First week I thought I would carry on as 'normal' and observe what patterns emerge, then week 2 use it to apply some kind of control, ie fast and exercise to bring down high's. I am currently towards the end of the first week during which I had seen significant spikes after certain foods, as to be expected. However I am now experiencing continuous highs unexpectedly. For example, yesterday I had my last meal at around 6.00pm chicken and vegetables, I generally follow a low carb diet. Throughout the evening I got persistent alarms, 13+ and settled down around 1.00am although still high 10 to 11 until this morning. What concerns me, is I did deep breathing exercises (normal for me) which was followed by a sharp rise 13+ so went for a bike ride, continued to rise to 15?? I have not yet eaten today to try to bring it down, but at 12.30 still at 12.6?
I have checked against finger pricking, may be a point or 2 out but still high.
medication is metformin
Anyone got any ideas what may be going on?

My experience is that fasting and exercise is more likely to provoke my liver into raising my BG, at least temporarily. As I've been in ketosis for the best part of five years it works a little differently for me, but it's still a general principle that if more fuel is needed (as when you cut other fuel sources via fasting or need additional via exercise) our livers will see that we get it.

BG levels are set and maintained by our livers, and what our livers think we need is sometimes at odds with what we'd prefer. If your liver has been used to running with higher BG levels, it will do its best to keep them at what it considers to be "normal". So for me in the beginning, my liver was constantly pushing my BG upwards. This is not necessarily the problem it seems, as the liver is using stored fuel to do it.

And eventually, the liver will learn that we can get by with lower levels - it took my liver about four or five months to learn to do that.

 

[Melgar]

During your fast were you drinking enough fluids? It’s surprising how much fluid is in the food we eat so I’m guessing one has to drink extra to compensate. I’ve just gotten over, what I can only describe as flu symptoms, high temp 103) , aching body , feeling nauseous. I didn’t eat for over 4 days yet my blood sugars were around 17 mmol/ls. I think it was a combo of my liver giving my immune system extra energy and not drinking enough fluid.

 

[Chris24Main]

@Melgar - It's exactly that - it kind of can't be anything else, and for me I'm seeing more and more that our glucose-regulation system is primarily designed to produce glucose - not get rid of it. (of course when I say designed, I mean evolved to).

My entire monitoring system, such as it is, is based around the idea that by eating to keep insulin down, I should be gradually converting to fat metabolism, and that this should result in a steadier baseline of blood glucose, and a higher level of fasting ketones. I know that doesn't work for you for various reasons, but in my study of a population of 1 - the numbers seem to me to be undeniable - where 8 months ago, exercise would produce lots of additional glucose, even after fasting for a whole day (there should not be any available stored glucose as glycogen) - now, my blood glucose is stable, and I produce more ketones - for the same exercise conditions.

@kimyeomans - I also cannot say that what work for me will work for anyone else, but I can say for sure, that in my case, it was at least six months of plugging away at this (in the hope that my understanding of this was correct, and absent any support) without any real sense that anything was changing - before I got any kind of feedback that it was working. It just takes time, but I'm more and more convinced of this - we focus on glucose, but if you eat and live (meaning you cannot ignore sleep and stress) to reduce insulin rather than glucose; it makes it easier to see the wood from the trees (is this thing to be ignored or taken seriously? - does it affect insulin?) and takes some of the pressure off, because it simply cannot be "fixed" overnight.

Exactly what you do, will be specific to you...
Anyway - that's my 2c.

On fasting days - I do drink quite a lot, and take nearly 2grams of crushed Himalayan salt (Himalayan simply because it will contain more than just a dose of refined sodium chloride, so it tastes better, and should contain a mix of other trace elements).

 

[kimyeomans]

Apologies for not responding sooner, for some reason I thought I would get an email notification, thought I was being ignored!
Wow, what a plethora of advice! but certainly reassuring that its not just me. The general takeaway is to 'give it time' which I will continue to do.
I mentioned I have the 'free trial' libre 2,

Exercise is so good for your body's health.
But it can cause the spikes you are referring to.
As you use energy, your body naturally provides more from glucogenisis.
As you have just started low carb, your body still wants the energy you get from food from carbs, sugars.
Until you give your body time to adjust to your new dietary regime, it will still be acting upon vigorous exercise.

If it is still rising whilst fasting, are you drinking something other than water?
If you have milk or sugar in it, this may be the cause.
What vegetables do you have. Starchy veg have a impact on your BG levels.

It will eventually start to come down with dietary and intermittent fasting.
It does take time.

In my experience, walking is really brilliant for BG control.
I can't do too much exercise, especially strenuous stuff.
So after eating, around fifteen minutes after, a walk for fifteen minutes, is known to help regulate the the high spikes.
Some T2s just can't do fasting or exercising, it is so individual. Everyone is different.

Take your time into all what is happening. It won't happen overnight.

Best wishes.

Thanks for the good advice. Veg is mainly broccoli, greens etc, some carrots. I have a blocked artery so walking is limited except golf which is stop / start, and does bring down BG. I do take milk with tea and coffee, will cut that out, I also have green tea and hibbiscus tea. I do like a beer, and the odd gin, guess they will have to go as well!
thanks again

Exercise is so good for your body's health.
But it can cause the spikes you are referring to.
As you use energy, your body naturally provides more from glucogenisis.
As you have just started low carb, your body still wants the energy you get from food from carbs, sugars.
Until you give your body time to adjust to your new dietary regime, it will still be acting upon vigorous exercise.

If it is still rising whilst fasting, are you drinking something other than water?
If you have milk or sugar in it, this may be the cause.
What vegetables do you have. Starchy veg have a impact on your BG levels.

It will eventually start to come down with dietary and intermittent fasting.
It does take time.

In my experience, walking is really brilliant for BG control.
I can't do too much exercise, especially strenuous stuff.
So after eating, around fifteen minutes after, a walk for fifteen minutes, is known to help regulate the the high spikes.
Some T2s just can't do fasting or exercising, it is so individual. Everyone is different.

Take your time into all what is happening. It won't happen overnight.

Best wishes.

 

[kimyeomans]

It's rare but not unheard of for a T2 to then go and get T1 . Are you also checking ketones? If so and those high too, get to hospital ASAP.

If no or low ketones and bg doesn't start going down I'd suggest getting medical opinion

Another possibility is that you are brewing some sort of infection/illness

Could also be that libre is failing.

Keep monitoring, keep aware and don't be afraid to go hospital

Hi
Thanks for this response, I checked ketones, negative. But BS still higher than I like, averaging 9.5 to 10.5 not quite so spikey.
I don't feel unwell, and will seek some medical advice from my diabetic nurse. Although I don't find her that knowledgeable, hadn't heard of the Newcastle diet, or remission by severe fasting.
I am very concerned about going from T2 to T1, I don't know if I am deteriorating or maybe its because I never monitored so closely before?

 

[kimyeomans]

I cannot fast that well, my levels will just keep rising. I tend to just grab some pecan nuts to to stop the rise. I do exercise and I think I am very low carb now. If I push myself too hard with the cardio my bg will rise but fall pretty quickly afterwards. I tend to do a lot more weights now and outdoor runs when I can, if I cannot run I use the spin bike. I am generally in the 5s during the day. My fasting morning levels are anything from 6 - 7.5 region. I tend to have my main meal around about 2pm work permitting and if I do get hungry in between, I will have green tea, cucumbers or some type of meat. Works for me but it took time. Stick with it, its worth it

Thanks Lainie, good advice

 

[Lamont D]

Apologies for not responding sooner, for some reason I thought I would get an email notification, thought I was being ignored!
Wow, what a plethora of advice! but certainly reassuring that its not just me. The general takeaway is to 'give it time' which I will continue to do.
I mentioned I have the 'free trial' libre 2,

Thanks for the good advice. Veg is mainly broccoli, greens etc, some carrots. I have a blocked artery so walking is limited except golf which is stop / start, and does bring down BG. I do take milk with tea and coffee, will cut that out, I also have green tea and hibbiscus tea. I do like a beer, and the odd gin, guess they will have to go as well!
thanks again

As my alcoholic FiL once told a specialist, it's not the alcohol, it's what you have with it, that is making me ill.
Beer is definitely not recommended, but straight gin should be ok.
In coffee, I am reliably informed that cream is good, as it's low carb.And
The tea is great without the milk, but if you have to. Test it on your CGM with full fat milk.

Golf is good.
If you find yourself not being able, cos of the weather. A short walk or stopping to look at something, or even doing climbing a few stairs at a time, something like that.

Take it easy on yourself.

 

[KennyA]

Apologies for not responding sooner, for some reason I thought I would get an email notification, thought I was being ignored!
Wow, what a plethora of advice! but certainly reassuring that its not just me. The general takeaway is to 'give it time' which I will continue to do.
I mentioned I have the 'free trial' libre 2,

Thanks for the good advice. Veg is mainly broccoli, greens etc, some carrots. I have a blocked artery so walking is limited except golf which is stop / start, and does bring down BG. I do take milk with tea and coffee, will cut that out, I also have green tea and hibbiscus tea. I do like a beer, and the odd gin, guess they will have to go as well!
thanks again

Normal beer is fairly carby and a rare treat for me these days. The good news is that there are several zero carb beers around, and they have got a lot better. The best in my experience are the four that Westbrook's Brewery do - either zero or 1g carb per 330ml. A bit more expensive and only available, afaik, by mail order.

Spirits are zero carb - just don't use anything sugary or a fruit juice to mix them with.

 

[KennyA]

Hi
Thanks for this response, I checked ketones, negative. But BS still higher than I like, averaging 9.5 to 10.5 not quite so spikey.
I don't feel unwell, and will seek some medical advice from my diabetic nurse. Although I don't find her that knowledgeable, hadn't heard of the Newcastle diet, or remission by severe fasting.
I am very concerned about going from T2 to T1, I don't know if I am deteriorating or maybe its because I never monitored so closely before?

T2 and T1 are different conditions. T1 is an autoimmune issue, and it is possible for someone with T2 to develop T1 but it's not the T2 "turning into" T1. The person would have both conditions. I've never met anyone this has happened to, and I can't think of anyone on the forums either.

 

[MrsA2]

, I checked ketones, negative. But BS still higher than I like, averaging 9.5 to 10.5 not quite so spikey.

Going in the right direction. More time needed perhaps?