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Fasting micmicking diet

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by kokhongw, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is a pretty good video on the benefits of extended fasting AND the importance of refeeding (simulating stem cells regeneration, rebuild lean mass, increases IGF1)...


    The patent for the protocol for diabetes is here...http://www.google.com.sg/patents/US20150004280
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
    #1 kokhongw, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:46 AM
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  2. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  3. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    That's a terrific interview, thanks for sharing that. Talk about informative. I don't know how anyone can watch something like that and not be stunned at how smart and knowledgeable these scientists are. This stuff is legit. Watching Dr Longo answer those questions makes me very confident in the potential of this discovery and its widespread applicability.

    I checked out some of her other monologues and interviews on Youtube too, there's a good one about optimum vitamin D supplements to take. It's LOL-worthy how she breaks down how many people are vitamin deficient and this means they aren't eating their veggies.

    I'm doing FMD as we speak, at the end of day 3 / 5, it's hard to sleep on an empty stomach. Gonna eat a couple almonds before bed. Headaches tell me ketosis is here.

    In that video Dr Longo also mentions metformin and resveratrol. I'm taking the latter but also wonder about the former. I think fasting 5 days a month is safer than metformin and likely has more benefits due to evolution. Also, it was interesting to see that 7 day fasting followed by mediterranean died is apparently much more effective.

    Metformin being upgraded by the FDA to an anti-aging drug is exciting too. I could probably get on it if I wanted, but I'll wait for a few more FMD sessions gone by before deciding.
     
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  4. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I wonder if perhaps taking metformin only during FMD would accentuate the yo-yo effect.
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    yo-yo to the loo and back I guess...
     
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  6. himtoo

    himtoo Type 1 · Well-Known Member
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    as a long term type 1 -- what is your current regime of MDI ( multiple daily Injections )
    Ie: total background units of long acting insulin and total daily units of bolus insulin for any meals consumed or correction doses ??
     
  7. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I take Lantus for overnight and Humalog for short-acting.

    Normal: 15 units of Lantus and ~40-50 ish of Humalog (depending on meals and sugars). I eat LCHF but also drink red wine here and there which has extra sugars and calories.

    FMD: 10 Lantus, ~30 ish of Humalog.
    No booze, no meats or proteins. Basically just 2 avocados per day. Next FMD I will reduce this to 1 avocado per day + a few chips and nuts.

    My actual timing of insulin shots is typically right before a meal or maybe an odd correction here and there. I'm not a strict Bernstein "never do corrections" follower. I'd rather a slight risk of insulin OD to bring my sugars down faster. I might try switching to a faster insulin soon to stop wanting to do this and eliminate another self-induced cause of hypos.

    Since going LCHF I've cut my total daily insulin in half, and GLP-1 (Victoza) brought that down further. I used to take 20 Lantus and up to 80 units of Humalog on an average day (much more when sick).

    My fasting sugars have been excellent during FMD. Like waking up with 7-8 max and most of the day around 4-6.

    I will stop taking resveratrol at the end of my FMD sessions to potentially try and enhance the yo-yo effect, and eat more carbs than normal too during re-feeding. From the video, it's the re-feeding which is when regeneration is happening (obviously).

    I think what you really want is to switch out of ketogenic mode, at least for a few days post-FMD during re-feeding phase, to maximize IGF-1 potential. It doesn't make sense to me to leave FMD just to go back to my normal very low carb diet.

    Next FMD I might even try taking more resveratrol (cutting it out again post-fasting). I'm also considering 7-day FMD with maybe the last 24 hours being a total water-fast.

    Regarding re-feeding, on the CureT1D site I've shared several papers regarding weaning, i.e. when babies start eating solid foods their beta cells need to mature, fast, and that's kind of what I'm expecting FMD to achieve when switching between ketogenic or fat-based diet to carb-based. Although I'm against eating high carb generally I think in the few days post-FMD I will "cheat" and this will be a "good thing" with regards to regeneration. It won't be too bad considering I have GLP-1 to slow down digestion hence smooth out sugar spikes due to carb ingestion, so give my body less of a shock. Maybe GLP-1 is indeed counterproductive to take during re-feeding.

    I asked Dr Longo about maximizing the yo-yo effect by taking metformin and/or resveratrol only during fasting then cutting it out during re-feeding, and eating more carbs during the days that follow fasting for the same reason. I started taking GLP-1 before I went very low carb and it helped smooth out lunchtime sandwich-induced spikes before I cut out even bread during lunch too. I really like the idea of eating carbs as a reward for getting through an FMD cycle, since I rarely eat them (and won't beyond a few days max regardless).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #7 Hoping4Cure, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:41 PM
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  8. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

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    @Hoping4Cure I must admit I pretty much hope for a cure every single day. Type 1 is wearing week after week, year after year. But I'll also admit your very informative insulin use summary above surprised me. I was - rightly or wrongly - not expecting you to be on such high doses. Do you have insulin resistance too?

    To be honest, I don't get why you're so excited about this. Waking with a BS of 7-8 max? That would disappoint me personally. I like to wake in the 5s and almost always wake below 6.5.

    I can possibly see the FMD working for some Type 2s maybe but I can't see it working for Type 1.
     
  9. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I don't need or expect FMD to be a full cure, but I know it improves my sugar control and well-being so that's a good enough reason alone to continue it. I'm not perfect at controlling this disease, hence my desire to have it cured (one would think that would be obvious?). I also drink moderately, which is my main source of extra carbs which I'm not giving up any time soon (I need to live a little, and don't have any other vices). My morning sugars when not FMDing are likely higher than they could be due to drinking red wine.

    I do think the evidence in the scientific literature in favour of fasting in general is solid and so health benefits outside of curing type 1 are also welcome. So it makes sense to do this even if it doesn't cure my disease.

    Besides, I've had type 1 for two and a half decades, and they told me once my insulin production was gone it was gone for good. Not the case, it turns out. I'm making insulin again...how many other people here can say that? Perhaps many...but, how many type 1 diabetics get their c-peptides checked, or even think of asking for it done? People go on mini-honeymoons and have periods of lower insulin requirements, but do they think, hey, maybe I should check my beta cell function? No, they do not. So being armed with knowledge that c-peptides rise and fall over the course of ones' lifespan opens up the question: what is causing theses waves? And how can one take advantage of this?

    Maybe the culture is different in the UK, but in Canada, I've had several doctors be incredulous when I showed them my test results showing I managed to kick-start my pancreas back into the detectable range / non-trivial range too.

    So I think I'm doing pretty good, overall, not perfect but good. I at least know that my peak c-peptide value is around a third of the fasting level of a non-diabetic. This is definite progress and moving things in the right direction, yes, towards an eventual cure. And several other type 1s on my blog have reached up to 1.6 ng/ml. That is within normal range. One even stopped needing short-acting insulin. (not sure if that's still the case, but even if it's temporary gains it is still something to build on).

    I'm also taking drugs like verapamil, GLP-1 and a host of vitamins and foods which are friendly to the gut microbes which are deficient in type 1s, and I'm also convinced, again by several studies, showing that gut dysbiosis is either a central cause or a central effect of this disease, and that treating it directly should have benefits towards reducing auto-immunity.

    I'm also inhaling insulin nasally, which is being tested as we speak (in humans) to improve the immune system's tolerization to the insulin molecule, and have had numerous, direct, email conversations with researchers on the topic. So there is plenty of reason to be hopeful and indeed proactive.

    I tried a bunch of regeneration agents over the years (GLP-1 is known to regenerate beta cells according to several studies, as is PPI / Gastrin, Harmine HCL, etc), but I think using the body's natural way of rebuilding cells from scratch is likely the best way, especially since it (supposedly) also reduces auto-immunity and gets rid of damaged/stressed beta cells which, again, according to the scientific literature, are creating junk insulin which is what might be causing the auto-immunity in the first place. All of these papers I've shared on my blog and learned from over the years. I don't just read the media reports I get the original papers (often purchasing them when I can't reach the primary researchers directly). And then I ask questions about the papers where it's unclear. Surprisingly, researchers sometimes do answer me.

    This much is known from the literature: weak cells are culled first during fasting, leaving the strong to survive. Kind of like forest fires clearing the way for bigger trees to have more space to grow even more, or a wolf-pack culling the herd.

    There are plenty of concrete reasons for me to think type 1 will be cured, perhaps not due to FMD alone but perhaps in conjunction with repairing my gut disbiosis, tolerizing to the insulin molecule, and so on. I also just got in a bunch of fish oil pills and other vitamins from Amazon, to follow the news from yesterday posted here at diabetes.co.uk.

    lenty of type 1s and type 2s take these pills, but do they take it in very high doses as indicated by this study? Probably not. So being proactive here could also take care of one of the other antibodies in my system (islet cell antibodies, or IA-2 I believe). So I'm fighting against anti-insulin and anti-islet cell auto-immunity now, as well as glucotoxicity (verapamil), as well as culling damaged beta cells which are likely stimulating auto-immunity on their own, leaving on my (proven) health beta cell population to have a good chance at survival. I'm also taking dextrometrorphan which has been shown to improve signalling for glucose-mediated insulin production (at least in type 2 diabetics, but the more I read the more I find out there is a ton of overlap between the two diseases).

    For the type 1 / type 2 overlap, I found out literally six years ago, from the Victoza study, that GLP-1 doesn't benefit just type 2s but also type 1s, and doctors at the time didn't know why. But I tried it and it cut my sugar averages and variance instantly. Like, overnight. I only stopped it for a while because of side effects but when I went back on it later on it was fine. Now I wouldn't even consider not taking GLP-1, I would steal to get it if I had to. It has been life-changing for my ability to live comfortably with my disease.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #9 Hoping4Cure, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:08 PM
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  10. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

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    I'm not saying Type 1 won't be cured - I'm optimistic it will be :) And hopefully as soon as possible!

    All I was saying was that I personally don't believe the FMD will be that cure, and, having seen your enthusiasm I honestly was expecting more concrete results. That's meant as an objective comment not a personal criticism of you or your control or application.

    I agree the source of Type 1 is more than likely related to the gut :) I've taken probiotics for years (and other supplements including high quality fish oil) and I've made sure to breastfeed all my children as I think the gut dysbiosis starts early. It was the one thing my consultant told me to do to reduce my children's chances of getting Type 1, but I was going to do it anyway.

    There are many, many interesting avenues of research related to the gut, and I wish more could be done faster. I've had Type 1 almost as long as you and it's been long enough.
     
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  11. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    My 4th FMD cycle is about to end in ten minutes, gonna order some Indian food :)

    Refeeding is the best part of this diet. Delayed gratification is so sweet, eating after a period of (relative) famine. Have to eat sloooowly though, it hurts the stomach to stuff it too fast after it's shrunk.

    I removed the resveratrol pills from my remaining pill organizer and won't take them again until my next FMD cycle, and then I'll double it to 4 pills a day. Although it would be useful to get confirmation from Dr Longo if my idea of min-maxing the yo-yo effect by taking resveratrol (and eventually metformin) only during FMD is a good idea.

    I also added vitamin C and fish oil, 2X recommended dose (so 6 pills a day) and see how that goes for a while. I might titrate the dose upwards from there if I feel OK after a month or two on this new regime.

    Aside from all this, I've been reading a lot more about ketogenic diet and realized recently I've been probably eating too much protein and not enough fat to reach + sustain ketosis. But I'm also very interested in ketosis cycling to coincide with FMD cycles.

    The main thing for me that's hampering DIY hacking of my immune system and disease, is my inability to measure my beta cell function either directly or indirectly. Directly via c-peptide level (which as you know coincides with endogenous insulin production), or indirectly via HOMA (blood glucose and blood insulin levels can be used to deduce beta cell function through a formula. There's even an app -- see HOMA thread on my blog for details unless that hasn't already been talked about on this forum).
     
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