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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    The longer I've spent with this disease reading the research the more I realize there is a ton of overlap, however in principle it should be possible for most type 2s to completely reverse it with extreme caloric restriction. I now realize this is also a good idea for type 1s, if only to reduce insulin TDD and hypo risk, as well as improve A1C and blood sugar variance (this is very important, and something an A1C will not tell you. You need to measure it via your sugar meter with Excel or some other program). Lowering sugar variance is more important than achieving A1C below 7, that can be done despite having wild swings which is very damaging to your body, especially since it means you will have a lot of hypos to compensate for the highs.
     
  2. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Starting another fasting cycle today after coming back from vacation (put on like ten pounds! but it was worth it :) ).

    I'll be doing it on / off every other week.

    I'm also going to try to switch to Fiasp insulin and scam a script for Metformin too (helps gut dysbiosis which should help type 1s as well, there is evidence to prove that is does). Remember folks, even on ketosis and very low calories per day, you still need insulin, for digesting fat. But that insulin level should be much lower. I'm meeting with a research endo next month so I might be able to get the real FMD food to try it at least once and try to replicate it. This time I'm doing the usual avocado diet + vitamins, and liquidy onion / veggy soups.
     
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  3. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Been at it for quite a while now lost a lot of weight first high carb calorie meals today don't have any strips to test but it sure feels like I'm not diabetic anymore .Pins and needles gone.
    It sure wasn't easy had 5 days of the most horrendous depression don't know how I got throughout it.The body seems to fight the low carb calorie thing so had high blood pressure as well but as I'm thinner and still having the dreaded coffee I'm probably more sensitive to it.
    No turning back now.Doctor said no carbs or starch and so it shall be.Back to low or no carbs tomorrow almost banting diet so we shall see what happens now.Will update later
     
  4. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Good luck.
     
  5. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just some anecdotal personal experience.

    Having successfully ditched the Gliclazide and Januvia by cutting out bread, pasta, potato and rice so that my carb intake was down to about 40 gms a day (so my WeightByDate software says), usually, I was very disappointed when my Christmas HbA1c was much more than it should be.

    Fortunately my GP didn't insist on more medication straight away although it became obvious it didn't matter how strict I was with carbs, my body was quite happy converting protein and fats to glucose. Thanks to the Freestyle Libre I cold see that was happening many hours (sometimes as much as 8 hours) after eating. Basically my BG was all over the place.

    Reluctantly tried Januvia again but the side effects were a pain in the backside. In fact my BG was even worse when I took Januvia, much worse, so no idea what was happening there, so I stopped. The depression which might have been coincidence was awful, even a lovely holiday didn't help.

    I came back from holiday on May 20th, 6 kgs lighter than when I departed, 3kgs was probably down to dehydration, despite drinking lots of water on the flight. I took the decision to have a go at the Newcastle diet, severe calorie restriction, but decided to go into it slowly. I found that shakes were making my BG spike and although I should have investigated further to find something suitable decided to go without. Then I removed protein from lunch (had usually been chicken or fish), then removed protein from dinner (all meats, Quorn).

    The one thing I have noticed is that my BG is now very stable and will even tolerate a bit of meat now and again, whereas that had normally caused a spike. So, still only in the 4th week and although I've not been ultra strict (I sometimes nibble on celery LOL) there has obviously been a dramatic improvement in BG levels. The weight has dropped off slowly but nothing to make me shout whoopee, I experienced much greater losses when I started low carb.

    I'll keep going for another 4 weeks or so and then will try and re-introduce protein, bit by bit. As for complete reversal? Only true if I can eat the 250gms of a carb a day as recommended by NHS/NICE, otherwise I'm type II.
     
  6. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've been laying low on the FMD for a while as I've been cycling & doing serious gym workouts and I've put on 12 lbs from my recent best weight number. I did lose a weight scales and it did get away from me. Its been a while so yesterday I came back to FMD. I tested today and I got a 101mg/dl reading and my weight was down 1.2 lbs from the prior day. That's just over the diabetic threshold of 100. I'll enter it into my log but this FMD will be my second go around with FMD.. The FBG I got this morning was 16% BETTER than the same test two days earlier.. I may well have eaten too much yesterday with two avocados and several handful of nuts but clearly losing more than 1.2 lbs of weight would have started the autophagy process that Dr Longo has referred to in his work. I'll keep you all updated this week..
     
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  7. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I've never had success on insulin treatment either.
     
  8. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    New interview of Phd Valter Longo by Doctor Mercola with the pair of them discussing FMD in greater detail. This video is about 5 days old as of the 7/29/2017. Minutes 9-11 they are talking about burning visceral fat versus subcutaneous fat

    The comments of the video respondents are quite interesting too!

     
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  9. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I just came off 5 day FMD. I checked my FBGs each and every morning. My starting weight was 204 lbs. I finished with weight at 196.8 lbs. So clearly I must have been in ketosis given the severity of my weight loss. My FBG average over the 5-6 days of fasting was about 16-17% lower. My weight this morning is now 199 lbs. So this was my second full completion of my FMD. I am pleased. The above link is encouraging to watch and I'm out of town for a few days then at the end of August I'll start over on the FMD for third time. I think my health is improving..
     
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  10. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have just started my 5 day first FMD cycle. So far before dinner my BG was 4.6 which is the best reading before dinner I have ever had.

    How many cycles have people found work best and at what interval? I was thinking six a month apart?
     
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  11. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Fleegle

    I have to pay for all my test strips so I'm a bit sparing of them. I usually only test in the mornings but I am cycling almost every day and then in a gym for 4-5 hours / week too. So I'm putting my back into it. As for exactly the number of cycles PhD Valter Longo has only recommended 3 sessions with them being spaced out once a month. I doubt that there is anything wrong with doing this each and every month for 6 or more months. I know I am expecting to do this each month until about Christmas time..
     
  12. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Another video for the science nerds:

    Interview with Dr Rhonda Patrick and Dr. Guido Kroemer on Autophagy, Caloric Restriction Mimetics, Fasting & Protein Acetylation:


     
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  13. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Well I'm long overdue for an update -

    It's been 6 months since I started doing the FMD with avocados, that's 6 sessions of 5 days each.

    And my conclusion is - it isn't working for me unfortunately.

    Session 1 got me some reasonably impressive results but since then there have been no really meaningful improvements that have built on the previous result, in fact my A1C has gone slightly worse.

    Although each diet session got slightly easier to do as I went on, I found every single one tough going and I seem to have developed a loathing of avocados !

    So I'm giving the FMD up as a bad job, it ain't working for me - however I wish the rest of you who are trying it out every success.

    My personal guess is that my autoimmune response is undoing any benefit that the diet gives me, and that my initial notable result from diet 1 (which does seem to have lasted) was probably due to a loss of visceral fat helping my insulin sensitivity.

    So I have now switched back to my tried & trusted 5:2 diet with a once or twice a week HIT session. That holds my weight down (I have always put the weight on very easily, even long before my T1 diagnosis - If I don't put some daily effort into weight management I know the pounds will pile back on).

    I am also trying to get a lot more probiotics and prebiotics into my diet, and I'm supplementing with potato starch, which is helping me sleep better.

    Well the FMD was an interesting experiment, and I hope that at least some of you guys will get positive end results out of it.

    Cheers - Dave.
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Have you ever tried regular fasting? i.e. just taking in liquids (water black tea and coffee)? Now you have exercised your fasting muscle with the FMD and are hopefully lowering your carb intake on your 5 eating days you may find it quite easy (also will give you a break from avocado).
     
  15. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Disappointed to hear that.

    Would you mind sharing what your typical refeeding diet is like?
     
  16. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Yes, for short periods - I have occasionally done 24 hr fasts whilst doing "basal runs" and when doing my 5:2 diet I only eat one meal on the diet days, in the evening, so that would be water fasting for around 19 - 20 hours twice a week.

    Dave.
     
  17. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Just regular food, I try to keep it "healthy" most of the time - i.e. a med style diet but I do occasionally indulge in things I really shouldn't. I'm not low carbing as such but I do try to avoid having large portions of white carbs on my plate. I certainly eat a lot less refined carbs than I did a couple of years ago.

    However, the odd pizza and the occasional beer does sometimes slip past the net !

    I'm also doing homemade sauerkraut, milk kefir, & cider vinegar, having the occasional stewed apple with cinnamon, and supplementing with raw potato starch n the evenings (helps me sleep better)

    Dave.
     
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    #217 Mr Whippy, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:09 PM
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  18. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Mr Whippy

    I prayed for your return to full health yesterday whilst out on my daily ride. I know of another T1, who is still young and I've prayed for his health too. These diseases are the most difficult to live with. I see a pizza store every afternoon I go out riding. I've yet to get a slice of pizza from that store. I have had two mild hypos while out riding recently. I treated myself to a slice of pizza but no beer on one of those occasions. I will try again this week to do an FMD, but it is as you've said not the easiest thing in the world to do.. .

    Good luck to us all. We need all of God's love to help us on our journey of life..

    LBB
     
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  19. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I got around to doing the best I could on another FMD for 5 days. My diet was avocados / nuts with lots of water and I managed to cycle 117 miles this week (about a normal amount of riding for me) I lost about 4lbs of weight during the FMD.. On the 5th day I woke to test my FBG and the batteries on my meter were worn out. I didn't have any hot spares, so I've not tested for an FBG in over a couple of weeks.

    However on the positive side I'm fast approaching 4500 miles of cycling since February of this year. I estimate that I've done more than 6000 miles since last September 2016. My neuropathy is feeling way better but I get mild tingling first thing in the morning but does dissipate within a couple of hours of getting up and moving around. I have to say I am way healthier than I was 3 years ago when I was diagnosed with my T2DM.

    I'll do another FMD in about 3-4 weeks and by then I'll have new batteries and test strips too. After that session I'll get a new HbA1c done too.. I'll keep you all in the loop... Good luck to everyone who's out there trying!
     
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  20. VictorVillalobos

    VictorVillalobos Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi Dave, I followed your posts from May this year. Overall, your evaluation of the initial benefit makes sense. BUT, After reading Longo-s papers I evaluated how long could it take for a body with minimal remanents of beta-cells to recover, even if FMD is working. The truth is that it would be an exponential curve. At the beginning, even if it works, it would be so small that it could be not perceived. Over time, though, it would be like a snowball, taking speed and the improvements would become more evident. Also, rather than using HbA1c, it might be useful to measure morning C-peptide. I wish you the best and hope to contact through particular messages later on.
     
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