Fat - is it really bad/good?

[ghost_whistler]

As i start consuming a considerable amount more fat (eating more meat during the day, about 3x, frying veg for dinner in butter, starting to use olive oil), I find myself really wondering about these claims. The health orthodoxy staunchly argues, for whatever reason (and i'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, I have to say), that fats are generally bad, particularly in excess. On the other hand there are those who say they are not bad, in fact they can be good.

Now how is a lay person like me, and possibly you, ever meant to know the difference. I'm not a doctor, dietitian, nutritionist, biologist, and I certainly don't have the luxury of being able to read the myraid books on this subject - and were I to do so the science within would fall on deaf ears since i'm no expert.

How do we know the truth, before we risk gambling on our healths - even for the best of intentions!

 

[BrianTheElder]

It's a very good question and you would be pretty stupid if you didn't have doubts.
At the start, you must trust your own judgement. Then, if things seem to work and you get the results, then you can start to believe.
I am an engineer, not a scientist, and I don't have a background in biochemistry. However, I do understand the scientific method and reading work by Zoe Harcombe and Jason Fung does a lot to convince me.
We must remain vigilant, there may be unexpected outcomes from some of the experiments we are conducting on ourselves!

 

[azure]

As I said on another thread when you asked, the decision is yours.

Eat as much or as little as you personally feel happy with.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I think the good folks on the keto reddits have had enough of my asking questions!

But unfrotunately, I must. This isn't a trivial subject, it's our very health, and the problem is that negative consequences of diets don't manifest instantly. They store up over time. That's the nature of fat-related problems - or at least so we're told!

 

[douglas99]

I found saturated fats really pushed up my cholesterol.
I eat Mediterranean, I don't eat high fat, I avoid saturated fat if I do eat fat.

All my blood results, cholesterol, kidney, liver, BMI, urine tests, are normal by mainstream definition, and I'm happy with them there.

 

[azure]

Precisely @ghost_whistler

Most diet boards have their share of people who misunderstand and put incorrect info, people who won't be swayed by any evidence because they've already made their mind up, and people with issues around eating.

Read as much as you can and make up your own mind. It's your health so your choice

 

[Lamont D]

All you have to do is up the fat, not eat loads of it, gradually raise the amount of natural fat.
I have found that polyunsaturated and vegetable oils are no good for me!

You do have to find your own levels and how you cook and what with.

 

[douglas99]

Read the arguments first though.

Go through the various sides to the arguments, decide who is the most correct, and set yourself targets.
Then find a diet to achieve those targets.
I was well supported by my HCP's, so I could change my diet, re test, and adjust accordingly.
(Hence I know the effect fats have on me)

Don't, eat, test, then find a way to justify the results of those tests.

Keep reading though, I tend to concentrate more on stuff that tries to prove me wrong, rather than prove me right, as I learn a lot more from being challenged, and can modify my diet if I need to, based on the new information.

 

[ghost_whistler]

As I said on another thread when you asked, the decision is yours.

Eat as much or as little as you personally feel happy with.

I am, I love a cooked breakfast. Sausage and avocado go so well together. But is it actually healthy?

 

[Resurgam]

If you have fairly high cholesterol you are likely to live longer, or at least not die from disease - at least that is what information on the World Health Organisation implies. old women - like me have the strongest connection between higher cholesterol and longer life.
Much work was done looking for connections between diet and illness, and it seemed that those with funding from certain interested parties didn't want it to be carbohydrate - Once a connection was declared, and it wasn't carbohydrate, people were happy to daemonise fat. Unfortunately there was no improvement in health. It was obviously the fault of the general public, not eating their carbs. Couldn't possibly be anything to do with the pure white sugar and flour on sale everywhere.

 

[douglas99]

If you have fairly high cholesterol you are likely to live longer, or at least not die from disease - at least that is what information on the World Health Organisation implies. old women - like me have the strongest connection between higher cholesterol and longer life.
Much work was done looking for connections between diet and illness, and it seemed that those with funding from certain interested parties didn't want it to be carbohydrate - Once a connection was declared, and it wasn't carbohydrate, people were happy to daemonise fat. Unfortunately there was no improvement in health. It was obviously the fault of the general public, not eating their carbs. Couldn't possibly be anything to do with the pure white sugar and flour on sale everywhere.

This is an example, of where you actually need to look at the curve of the graph first, then decide what a good cholesterol level is.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Read the arguments first though.

Go through the various sides to the arguments, decide who is the most correct, and set yourself targets.
Then find a diet to achieve those targets.
I was well supported by my HCP's, so I could change my diet, re test, and adjust accordingly.
(Hence I know the effect fats have on me)

Don't, eat, test, then find a way to justify the results of those tests.

Keep reading though, I tend to concentrate more on stuff that tries to prove me wrong, rather than prove me right, as I learn a lot more from being challenged, and can modify my diet if I need to, based on the new information.

I don't think that's an effective methodology. It shouldn't be about personal opinion, it should be about evidence based science, which is an approach I believe is very important. People have positive feelings about all sorts of stuff that we all know is bunk - and that's fine as far as it goes. it's not about being the thought police, but we're talking about facts here.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

I don't think that's an effective methodology. It shouldn't be about personal opinion, it should be about evidence based science, which is an approach I believe is very important. People have positive feelings about all sorts of stuff that we all know is bunk - and that's fine as far as it goes. it's not about being the thought police, but we're talking about facts here.

Yes but a fact for me and my body is different then for others on this forum.
For example, I can not have any grains. None. No rice, barley, quinoa,corn, or wheat. Even a small amount will spike my BG. I have tested it over and over.
But I can have a small amount of sugar and it doesn't spike me.
Now that's a fact for me but I wouldn't presume it to be so for any one else.
I eat full fat yougurt and cream in my coffee but I don't eat much animal protein. I have had my Cholesterol checked and it's all good.
That works for me. But for others it might not.
All you can do is research and find what works for you through testing. Every ones body is different and we have to find what works for us.

 

[douglas99]

I don't think that's an effective methodology. It shouldn't be about personal opinion, it should be about evidence based science, which is an approach I believe is very important. People have positive feelings about all sorts of stuff that we all know is bunk - and that's fine as far as it goes. it's not about being the thought police, but we're talking about facts here.

The problem with accepting 'evidence based science' at face value, is that anyone can provide alternative facts as the evidence. And then the article is written very much based on personal opinion.
So, read both sides, and decide for yourself who is actually presenting evidence, and who is manipulating it for an agenda.
If you can find the absolute answer, that's good.
Otherwise, I'll settle for who is most correct, based on the different studies, and also presentations of the same evidence from both sides.

But remember, not everything on the internet is true.

 

[Michael4450]

Little Carbs, eating food without added sugar help I don't take medication- What can I eat to survive?

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't think that's an effective methodology. It shouldn't be about personal opinion, it should be about evidence based science, which is an approach I believe is very important. People have positive feelings about all sorts of stuff that we all know is bunk - and that's fine as far as it goes. it's not about being the thought police, but we're talking about facts here.

The trouble is.. no diet study will ever be reliable unless you lock people in a room and feed them exactly what you are experimenting and even if you could do that ( almost impossible these days) then I'm guessing a number of those people would have different results to the majority.
If you are worried about fats and cholesterol then first you need to find out whether you believe what has been written about cholesterol and dietary fats. Do they have an impact and should you care?
Once you have got your head around that then you can start looking at the effect fats have on you. That is the dilemma - what works for me may not work for you. There is no right answer. I have found something that works for me.. my overall cholesterol has gone up slightly but I don't care because I don't think it is relevant.
I have lost weight and have decent blood sugar control without hunger. So far it has been easy. Loosing the next couple of stone will not be easy as it has taken a few months to lose the most recent one. However as I am eating this way (ultra low cab high fat) for the rest of my days then that's fine.. I'm a work in progress.. an ongoing self experiment. I would suggest that you read around and decide to try something for say 6 months and get all the tests before you start then get another set done after 6 months. Test all the while and record what you eat and your own test results to see how your body reacts to foods. I'm afraid there are no easy answers its more an educated leap of faith.
Good luck!

 

[azure]

I am, I love a cooked breakfast. Sausage and avocado go so well together. But is it actually healthy?

There is no definitive answer to that, as I'm sure you must know. Read the studies, check who funded them, etc, etc and see what approach sits best with you.

I've already mentioned the carb percentage of ancient diets on your Paleo thread, so if you think following that kind of diet is a good idea, then you have guidance. I can't find the actual web page where I read that, but I presume it had a percentage for fat too, and protein.

If you have other priorities or other diets that appeal more, then eat those, or try a blend of diets.

You asked a simple question - is fat healthy - but the answer isn't simple.

 

[AndBreathe]

@ghost_whistler - The scientific view on fats is changing.

For me, I have no issues consuming fats, in general, however, what I do try to avoid where at all possible, if manufactured fats, commonly called, trans fats.

Fats fill us and taste good, but the key is to use the fat as a balancing mechanism, when eaating a reduced carb diet. Where trouble undoubtedly lies is a high carb, high fat diet.

 

[chalup]

There is a series of videos, most of them quite short, on this thread that may be well worth your while to watch. They will answer a lot of your questions and maybe give you some new things to think about. It is well worth the time put into them.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/prof-tim-noakes.102885/

 

[Prem51]

Little Carbs, eating food without added sugar help I don't take medication- What can I eat to survive?

Hi @Michael4450 and welcome to the forum. There is a section on Recipes and Nutrtion, and have a look at the 'Type 2s What have you eaten today' thread for ideas for what you can eat.