Fats and arteries - fry up vs Mediterranean

Cowboyjim · Oct 31, 2012

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121030062007.htm
Further confirmation of the obvious?

A single junk food meal -- composed mainly of saturated fat -- is detrimental to the health of the arteries, while no damage occurs after consuming a Mediterranean meal rich in good fats such as mono-and polyunsaturated fatty acids, according to researchers at the University of Montreal-affiliated ÉPIC Center of the Montreal Heart Institute. The Mediterranean meal may even have a positive effect on the arteries.

The first was composed of salmon, almonds, and vegetables cooked in olive oil, of which 51% of total calories came from fat (mostly monounsaturated fatty acids and polyunsaturated fats.)
The second meal consisted of a sandwich made of a sausage, an egg, and a slice of cheese, and three hash browns, for a total of 58% of total calories from fat: extremely rich in saturated fatty acids and containing no omega-3s.

The study also revealed that participants with higher blood triglyceride levels seemed to benefit more from the healthy meals.

Indy51 · Oct 31, 2012

Of course, bread in one meal and not in the other. Of course, it couldn't possibly be the wheat/gluten, now could it?

:lol:

IanD · Oct 31, 2012

Indy51 said:
Of course, bread in one meal and not in the other. Of course, it couldn't possibly be the wheat/gluten, now could it?

:lol:

Of course not - it was the hash browns.

Why did they not try the third option - the first meal fried in lard?

It looks like a VERY quick way of assessing potential problems with food, without infliction a long term diet on people.

GraceK · Oct 31, 2012

Cowboyjim said:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121030062007.htm
Further confirmation of the obvious?

A single junk food meal -- composed mainly of saturated fat -- is detrimental to the health of the arteries, while no damage occurs after consuming a Mediterranean meal rich in good fats such as mono-and polyunsaturated fatty acids, according to researchers at the University of Montreal-affiliated ÉPIC Center of the Montreal Heart Institute. The Mediterranean meal may even have a positive effect on the arteries.

The first was composed of salmon, almonds, and vegetables cooked in olive oil, of which 51% of total calories came from fat (mostly monounsaturated fatty acids and polyunsaturated fats.)
The second meal consisted of a sandwich made of a sausage, an egg, and a slice of cheese, and three hash browns, for a total of 58% of total calories from fat: extremely rich in saturated fatty acids and containing no omega-3s.

The study also revealed that participants with higher blood triglyceride levels seemed to benefit more from the healthy meals.

My brother in law is Spanish ... has lived on the Mediterranean diet all his life ... he's mainly a fish eater, doesn't smoke ... drinks in moderation ... he has ulcers, has had 3 heart attacks and one stroke so far. My sister in law also Spanish has had 2 strokes ... other sister in law has had a perforated ulcer ... my ex husband also Spanish ... lived on the same diet ... appears to be in better physical health but lives on his nerves and is permanently bad tempered and has a very, very short fuse. These are all people born and bred to the Mediterranean diet - Meditteraneans get sick too, they have allergies, weaknesses and are prone to the same problems we have with the chemicalisation of our food.

Indy51 · Oct 31, 2012

I also wonder what oil was used for the frying of the hash browns, etc? Maybe corn oil/cottonseed/soy oil - some dreadful Omega 6 swamped chemically treated oil?

noblehead · Oct 31, 2012

Cowboyjim said:
Further confirmation of the obvious?

Indeed it is Sir :roll:

Thanks for posting Cowboy

Cowboyjim · Nov 2, 2012

http://www.medilexicon.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=252230

More "nice work if you can get it" science... scoffing sarnies for research... :crazy:

"Just one day of eating a fat-laden breakfast sandwich - processed cheese and meat on a bun - and "your blood vessels become unhappy," says Heart and Stroke Foundation researcher Dr. Todd Anderson, director of the Libin Cardiovascular Institute of Alberta and head of cardiac science at the University of Calgary. "

"Remember that whether you eat at home or go to a restaurant, you're still in charge of what you eat. So consider all the choices, and try to cut down on saturated and trans fats, calories and sodium. That's one of the keys to decrease your risk of heart disease and stroke."

Good advice for norms and DM's alike... but why are they repeating the studies of what seems well understood? 8)

Patch · Nov 2, 2012

They're not comparing fats, they're comparing Fats + carbs vs. Fats.

So they can tell if damage is being done from a person eating ONE meal??? That's some awesome science right there - the heart health equivalent of eating to your meter.

These people wouldn't DARE do the same comparison between a salmon and a rib-eye steak meal with no additional carbs.

I'd love to see the results of a comparison of THESE 2 meals:

Salmon
Almonds
Veggies cooked in Olive Oil

Vs.

Rib-eye Steak
Almonds
Mushrooms cooked in butter.

Both sound delicious (and healthy) to me. Anyone wanna guess what "results" they might encounter if they compared these meals?

phoenix · Nov 2, 2012

Not unlike Ron Krauss's study I mentioned on another thread this week.

we fed the same beef product to two groups. Lean beef, low in fat, without any added saturated fat. For one group, we added lots of dairy fat, to increase saturated fat. For the other group, we kept saturated fat low, but kept total fat basically the same by using an unsaturated fat–basically olive oil. So between the two groups, let’s say the difference was the equivalent of a cheeseburger versus a lean hamburger dressed with olive oil

.
These were in the context of a fairly low carb diet
(31% CHO, 31% protein, 38% fat, high sat fat was 15% sat fat, lower sat fat was 8% sat fat.
what did they find ?
http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/04/ ... t-depends/
and
http://ctsi.ucsf.edu/news/about-ctsi/li ... rt-disease

borofergie · Nov 2, 2012

phoenix said:
(31% CHO, 31% protein, 38% fat, high sat fat was 15% sat fat, lower sat fat was 8% sat fat.

31% Carbohydrate is not a fairly low carb diet: it's 225g of carb on 3000kcal a day. You'd have to eat less than 2000kcal a day to get anywhere near 150g of carbohydrate which is the upper bound of what can reasonably be called "low-carb".

A "slightly lower carb diet" which is glycolitic is completely different from a "proper low carb diet" which is ketotic. If you're over filling your liver with glycogen, and utilising secondary disposal pathways then the diet is more representative of a high-carb diet than a low-carb one.

phoenix · Nov 2, 2012

Stephen,
Krauss says he was keeping the carbs low

The punchline is that we expected that because these diets have low carbohydrate, when we fed the high saturated fat level along with the red meat, we would see a pretty benign metabolic risk profile. Just as we did with low saturated fat and red meat

You can argue that with him.
The main point though is that they didn't vary them as in the experiment quoted above

borofergie · Nov 2, 2012

phoenix said:
You can argue that with him.

Think he'll listen to me?

lucylocket61 · Nov 2, 2012

Is this US red meat, where the cattle are fed a carb rich diet of corn and supplements rather than grass fed? If so, the "healthy" red meat eaters would still be consuming more cabs (indirectly) than the ones with the lean meat, as the carbs are in the fat of the meat which is marbled through the steak.

Or I could be wrong.

borofergie · Nov 2, 2012

lucylocket61 said:
Is this US red meat, where the cattle are fed a carb rich diet of corn and supplements rather than grass fed? If so, the "healthy" red meat eaters would still be consuming more cabs (indirectly) than the ones with the lean meat, as the carbs are in the fat of the meat which is marbled through the steak.

Or I could be wrong.

It's possible. The Krauss stuff is interesting. I wonder if it's down to the dairy. Although grain fed meat is supposed to be lower quality (because of non-optimal O6:O3 ratios). If it has any effect at all, I doubt you'd be able to detect it in a short term experiment.

lucylocket61 · Nov 2, 2012

Milk has carbs, doesnt it? so that would also increase the carb load on the saturated fat and meat eating group.

phoenix · Nov 2, 2012

They used the same beef in each arm of the study, so the fat composition of the beef wouldn't have varied .
When carbohydrates are converted to fat they become fat.
Grass fed beef is leaner than grain fed beef. It also has a higher omega 3 content which is (they think) protective against heart disease. Fortunately most European beef is grass fed for most of the year.

Oops just seen your follow up Lucy. Most cheese doesn't have many/any carbs; depends on variety. In a carefully done experiment (Krauss is a very well respected researcher) this would have been taken into account in the calculations.

lucylocket61 · Nov 2, 2012

Most cheese doesn't have many/any carbs; depends on variety.

I was thinking of the milk consumption he mentioned.

so, in words of one syllabul please, what was the conclusion? I have boggled my brain again (its been an unpleasant day)

:crazy:

(and how do I spell syllabul? spellchecker has also decided to go awol)

anna29 · Nov 2, 2012

lucylocket61 said:
Most cheese doesn't have many/any carbs; depends on variety.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of the milk consumption he mentioned.

so, in words of one syllabul please, what was the conclusion? I have boggled my brain again (its been an unpleasant day)

:crazy:

(and how do I spell syllabul? spellchecker has also decided to go awol)

Hi Lucy...
hope this helps - syllable ...

lucylocket61 · Nov 2, 2012

thanks anna - its been driving me mad!!!

borofergie · Nov 2, 2012

lucylocket61 said:
Milk has carbs, doesnt it? so that would also increase the carb load on the saturated fat and meat eating group.

Milk has carbs, cheese has very few.

Hardcore Paleoers will tell you that dairy is a neolithic food stuff. It would be very interestng to me, if it turned out to be "non-optimal".

Stephen

Fats and arteries - fry up vs Mediterranean

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