Five years in and struggling with nerve damage / depression

[Badly Drawn Kano]

Hi, this is my first post, and I'm sorry it's such a miserable one. But I was diagnosed with type two diabetes in 2018, and have rarely dealt with it well. The first six months were probably the best where thanks to my then partner I changed my diet and managed to lose three stone, but then we split up and the pandemic took place. During the pandemic I was okay Sunday to Friday, but then would have a cheat day and massively overdo it, eating a ridiculous amount of biscuits, chocolate or cake.

To cut a very long story short, at the beginning of this year I finally had it under control, I was eating meals that consisted of vegetables and white meat, and I ate an apple if I needed a snack. Then a very traumatic event occurred where my mother told me of her suicidal impulses, and I began binge eating, trying to persuade myself that products like Siro Sugar Free cookies would be okay, even if I ate two or three packets.

In May I started getting stabbing pains in my fingers, googled it, and realised I was causing myself never damage, and I changed my diet again, it wasn't by any means an ideal diet, but I got in to the routine of having milk and cornflakes in the morning, chicken and microwaved half a packet of Sainsbury's Vegetable medley, and the same again in the evening but with beef or ham.

This slowly caused the stabbing / burning sensation to alievate, though it's never completely gone way, but at best I sometimes get a vibrating feeling in my fingertips on my right hand, and I thought I could cope with that.

And then I fell in love.
And she told me that she loved me too. But nothing could take place between us as she was married and had (adult) children, and that was that. I crashed and burned. Really struggled with suicidal ideation and came disturbingly close one night, and started binge eating again and the burning sensation returned to my fingers on both hands. Somehow I pulled through, I went to my GP, and they have referred me to a therapist (not CBT, as I've had that before and the therapist admitted she did not know how to treat someone with my issues) but the waiting list is at least four months long, she couldn't put a time on when I would be seen but made it clear it wouldn't be in 2023. Meanwhile I was put on the highest dose of anti-depressants (I've been on them for years, but have now moved from 40mg of Paroxetine to 50mg, and I have asked my Doctor if I could be put on a different kind of medication, but I have not heard a response yet), and I am doing slightly better.

I still have a huge problem when it comes to food though. I'm eating the diet of cornflakes / milk in the morning, vegetables / meat as a my main two meals, but I still find myself struggling on the snacking front. Right now I find I can eat twiglets and it causes some minor pain concerning nerve damage, but I am able to cope with that, even though I know this is not something I should be doing, and I'm very much in danger of causing longterm damage to my body.

TLR? - I'm not dealing well with type 2 diabetes at all. I do take Metformin twice a day, and I'm on a waiting list for therapy, and take a high dose of anti-depressants, but still struggle with food, especially snacking. And I guess what I want to know is there anything I can eat when it comes to snacking that won't cause nerve damage / the diabetes to worsen? I've tried nuts, berries, yoghurts, and dislike all, so is there anything which might be okay?

 

[Antje77]

I'm not dealing well with type 2 diabetes at all. I do take Metformin twice a day, and I'm on a waiting list for therapy, and take a high dose of anti-depressants, but still struggle with food, especially snacking. And I guess what I want to know is there anything I can eat when it comes to snacking that won't cause nerve damage / the diabetes to worsen? I've tried nuts, berries, yoghurts, and dislike all, so is there anything which might be okay?

Hi @Badly Drawn Kano , welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you're having a rough time, please try not to be too hard on yourself.

As for snacking, I'm not sure what foods you like, but what about cheese? (So many glorious cheeses to choose from, provided you like cheese of course.)
Pork scratchings? Egg mayo? A chicken leg? Dark chocolate (85% cocoa or higher)? Strawberries with double cream?

 

[Badly Drawn Kano]

Hi @Badly Drawn Kano , welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you're having a rough time, please try not to be too hard on yourself.

As for snacking, I'm not sure what foods you like, but what about cheese? (So many glorious cheeses to choose from, provided you like cheese of course.)
Pork scratchings? Egg mayo? A chicken leg? Dark chocolate (85% cocoa or higher)? Strawberries with double cream?

Thank you for your kind response, and yes, this really has been a quite awful year, the worst I've been through in a very long time. I feel that I'm (slowly, gently) emerging from the other side, but I still definitely have an issue with binge eating (something I've struggled with since I was a child, and something I've had a fair amount of therapy concerning).

When it comes to snacking I love chocolate, biscuits, cake and crisps all of the worst things really, and all of those cause the burning sensation in my fingers to get much, much worse. Otherwise the only things you mention I like are double cream (but that's when I have had it with cake rather than any fruit) or chicken, but I eat that daily so it doesn't really appeal.

This is something I have frustrated my friends and family with, and I really wish it was different, but I've always had a sweet tooth and as much as I've tried to all but force myself to only eat healthy snacks I still fail far too often.

 

[Antje77]

When it comes to snacking I love chocolate, biscuits, cake, all of the worst things really, and all of those cause the burning sensation in my fingers to get much, much worse. Otherwise the things you mention I only like double cream, but that's when I have had it with cake rather than any fruit.

Do you bake?
If you do a google search on 'keto cake' (or on any food with 'keto' added) you'll get lots of recipes on cakes that won't mess with your blood glucose!

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @Badly Drawn Kano, and welcome to the forum.

Obviously you need a sustainable method of controlling your Blood Glucose (and perhaps weight). Short term methods just postpone the inevitable because T2 Diabetes control is a marathon, not a sprint.

You say that you dealt well with T2D in 2018, why can't you go back to eating that way again?
Which method were you using:
Low Carb (no calorie restriction)?
Intermittent fasting (either actual or simulated)?
Very low calorie then 'weight maintenance'?

I was a slim normal weight T2 Diabetic (TOFI). I still am except slimmer and in T2 Remission for about 3yrs now, with normal Blood Glucose readings for over 4yrs. Being slim I was drawn to Low Carb especially after I saw the success that Dr David Unwin's T2D patients were having with it.
Here's a link to the blog post which got me on my path to T2D remission:

The Nutritional Thingy

There’s a few things you should know. 1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested , so not just straight sugars, but starches...

josekalsbeek.blogspot.com

The first thing to say about snacks is try very hard not to snack. This is easier with Low carb or actual fasting: For fasting, fast long enough so you are no longer hungry (after the first couple of days we find we aren't hungry because we are using body fat as fuel). For Low Carb, just eat extra-large (but still low carb) meals to tide you over until the next meal - again this gets easy once 'fat adapted' and using your own body fat.

If you eat when bored, try to drink a low carb drink instead (water, black or green tea, etc.), or eat anything that is approx zero carb -for example eggs, cheese, meat, fish, olives, seeds (pumpkin seed, sunflower seeds, etc.)

 

[saky]

Hi, this is my first post, and I'm sorry it's such a miserable one. But I was diagnosed with type two diabetes in 2018, and have rarely dealt with it well. The first six months were probably the best where thanks to my then partner I changed my diet and managed to lose three stone, but then we split up and the pandemic took place. During the pandemic I was okay Sunday to Friday, but then would have a cheat day and massively overdo it, eating a ridiculous amount of biscuits, chocolate or cake.

To cut a very long story short, at the beginning of this year I finally had it under control, I was eating meals that consisted of vegetables and white meat, and I ate an apple if I needed a snack. Then a very traumatic event occurred where my mother told me of her suicidal impulses, and I began binge eating, trying to persuade myself that products like Siro Sugar Free cookies would be okay, even if I ate two or three packets.

In May I started getting stabbing pains in my fingers, googled it, and realised I was causing myself never damage, and I changed my diet again, it wasn't by any means an ideal diet, but I got in to the routine of having milk and cornflakes in the morning, chicken and microwaved half a packet of Sainsbury's Vegetable medley, and the same again in the evening but with beef or ham.

This slowly caused the stabbing / burning sensation to alievate, though it's never completely gone way, but at best I sometimes get a vibrating feeling in my fingertips on my right hand, and I thought I could cope with that.

And then I fell in love.
And she told me that she loved me too. But nothing could take place between us as she was married and had (adult) children, and that was that. I crashed and burned. Really struggled with suicidal ideation and came disturbingly close one night, and started binge eating again and the burning sensation returned to my fingers on both hands. Somehow I pulled through, I went to my GP, and they have referred me to a therapist (not CBT, as I've had that before and the therapist admitted she did not know how to treat someone with my issues) but the waiting list is at least four months long, she couldn't put a time on when I would be seen but made it clear it wouldn't be in 2023. Meanwhile I was put on the highest dose of anti-depressants (I've been on them for years, but have now moved from 40mg of Paroxetine to 50mg, and I have asked my Doctor if I could be put on a different kind of medication, but I have not heard a response yet), and I am doing slightly better.

I still have a huge problem when it comes to food though. I'm eating the diet of cornflakes / milk in the morning, vegetables / meat as a my main two meals, but I still find myself struggling on the snacking front. Right now I find I can eat twiglets and it causes some minor pain concerning nerve damage, but I am able to cope with that, even though I know this is not something I should be doing, and I'm very much in danger of causing longterm damage to my body.

TLR? - I'm not dealing well with type 2 diabetes at all. I do take Metformin twice a day, and I'm on a waiting list for therapy, and take a high dose of anti-depressants, but still struggle with food, especially snacking. And I guess what I want to know is there anything I can eat when it comes to snacking that won't cause nerve damage / the diabetes to worsen? I've tried nuts, berries, yoghurts, and dislike all, so is there anything which might be okay?

Instead of corn flakes and milk, you could try almond slivers, shredded coconut, cinnamon powder with almond/coconut milk. Meat and veggies are Okay.
You could make flax seed, choco cookies at home. They are very delicious...

 

[ianf0ster]

Even whole oat porridge (though it spikes the Blood Glucose of many Type 2 Diabetics) is better breakfast for a Type 2 Diabetic than Cornflakes.
But a zero carb breakfast like eggs, cheese, meat, fish would be much better still.

 

[Badly Drawn Kano]

Hi @Badly Drawn Kano, and welcome to the forum.

Obviously you need a sustainable method of controlling your Blood Glucose (and perhaps weight). Short term methods just postpone the inevitable because T2 Diabetes control is a marathon, not a sprint.

You say that you dealt well with T2D in 2018, why can't you go back to eating that way again?

Firstly, thank you to everyone who has replied, I had to unexpectedly visit a family member and so was unable to log in to respond.

As for what happened in 2018, well, essentially my girlfriend monitored everything that I ate, and made me feel terribly guilty when I had days where I ate anything unhealthy / sugar based. Unfortunately we split up in 2019, and ever since then it's been a terrible mess.

I do understand what you're saying when it comes to a sustainable method, and the way I'm currently living is going to end badly, but the problem is that while I have days that I can do that, when depression hits I crumble and collapse. I used to have a fair few vices (nicotine, alcohol, a certain herb that Amsterdam is famous for, casual sex) and I don't have any of those now, the only thing left that gives me a similar high is sugar / food that is bad for me.

I wish I had more self-control, and I hope that when I eventually see a therapist that is something I can get help with, but right now as much as I hate to admit it I give in with alarming ease, and as I only live a five minute walk from the nearest supermarket, can obtain food that is bad for me for the majority of my waking hours.

 

[plantae]

I'm not type 2 so take what I say with a grain of salt (is salt ok?).

The first thing I'd do is stop feeling guilty if you still are. Yes, perhaps what you're eating is not "the best" (I don't know and I'm not here to judge). But feeling guilty about eating "bad" foods I don't think is helping anyone. What you eat is important of course but don't beat yourself up about it so much that it makes you feel guilty, that's just probably going to make you more depressed and maybe feed into the cycle (i.e. more depressed, eat more "bad" food).

Anti-depressants are something you could talk to your therapist about but have a proper conversation -- they can have side effects as well

Diabetes (and diet) is hard. You gave up smoking, alcohol, a certain herb and casual sex. I'm not trying to sound glib but weren't those harder to give up than making dietary changes (I still can't give up smoking and the casual sex thing would be nice but I'm not lucky)?

From what I've read on here, low carb eating is the way to go. It's actually quite enjoyable if you can get used to it

Edit: there is low sugar/carb chocolate in my country which I have every night. Is that an option where you are?

 

[ianf0ster]

OK, perhaps you are trying to do too much, too fast.
If you can make just one change at a time and just concentrate on that for long enough for it to become a habit. Then often your tastes will change and you won't find what you used to eat so nice anymore.
I used to eat ordinary milk chocolate, I found white chocolate (Nestle's Milky Bar - showing my age) too sweet. I switched to dark chocolate, then to high cocoa solids chocolate, then to 85% and 90% cocoa solids chocolate, so now even ordinary dark chocolate is just sickeningly sweet to me I can't stand it!
The same with sugar in tea, then with milk in tea. Now I drink either green tea (which tastes weird if you put milk in it) or ordinary black tea as it comes i.e. just teabag and hot water.

I occasionally still snack from boredom - I still haven't fully overcome that, but I only snack on low or zero carb stuff (95% chocolate - 14gms of carbs per whole 100gm bar), or cheese of olives or nuts (unlike you I like nuts).
We all use different coping mechanisms - you just need to find one that works for you!

Corrected typo mistake - now showing correct amount of carbs in a 100gm 95% Lindt bar.

 

[Ditzy47]

As ianf0ster said, one step at a time. I do believe the first step should be breakfast. Starting your day with cornflakes is bound to lead to snacking. It’s a high carbohydrate meal. You get the high glucose from the cornflakes on an empty tummy. This inevitably sends your blood sugar high and then a swift fall afterwards. Think of it in The way that a drug addict gets high and then when it wears off is desperate for the next fix. Similarly, oats will give a high glucose result so really you would be best to have wholewheat, seeded bread topped with maybe avocado and eggs/beans/mushrooms cooked in extra virgin olive oil or a combination of those. Protein breakfasts are much better at curbing the later cravings. The whole wheat and seeds take a while to break down into glucose so you don’t get that steep drop off, keeping you full for longer.

I am also type 2 and my wake up call was when my retinal screening showed some damage. I really really do not want to go blind.

 

[KennyA]

As ianf0ster said, one step at a time. I do believe the first step should be breakfast. Starting your day with cornflakes is bound to lead to snacking. It’s a high carbohydrate meal. You get the high glucose from the cornflakes on an empty tummy. This inevitably sends your blood sugar high and then a swift fall afterwards. Think of it in The way that a drug addict gets high and then when it wears off is desperate for the next fix. Similarly, oats will give a high glucose result so really you would be best to have wholewheat, seeded bread topped with maybe avocado and eggs/beans/mushrooms cooked in extra virgin olive oil or a combination of those. Protein breakfasts are much better at curbing the later cravings. The whole wheat and seeds take a while to break down into glucose so you don’t get that steep drop off, keeping you full for longer.

I am also type 2 and my wake up call was when my retinal screening showed some damage. I really really do not want to go blind.

I agree with the sentiment but bread and beans are themselves both carb-heavy items.

 

[Ditzy47]

I agree with the sentiment but bread and beans are themselves both carb-heavy items.

But the whole grain and the seeds in the bread, the fibre in the beans (reduced sugar ones) together with the fat from the avocado mean that the glucose release is slow, keeping your stomach full for longer and avoiding the spike that does the damage and leads to snacking.

 

[KennyA]

But the whole grain and the seeds in the bread, the fibre in the beans (reduced sugar ones) together with the fat from the avocado mean that the glucose release is slow, keeping your stomach full for longer and avoiding the spike that does the damage and leads to snacking.

That's the GI concept. It may work for you.

For me, high GI or low GI has no effect. It's the carbs. Replacing one set of carbs with another achieves nothing. And it's not the "spike" that does the damage - it's elevated BG levels over time.

 

[ianf0ster]

For me the GI does have some meaning, but not enough to be relied upon. I still need to test for myself with my BG meter. We T2's are a diverse group and unlike @KennyA I find that for the most part it's a combination of GI and GL which are the biggest factors for me. Though I still seem to get higher BG readings (and for longer) from raw carrots than the GI and GL would lead me to expect!

 

[saky]

I get polyphagia/hyperpahgia (frequent hunger) if I eat too many carbs(>80g). If I eat frequently also, I feel hungry. Salads, big bowl of stir fried veggies, greens and then handful of almonds/peanuts for lunch and dinner keeps me full for long periods.

 

[AndBreathe]

@Badly Drawn Kano - I'm not going to make any comment on your diet, because plenty others have gone there, but I would like to touch on your disordered eating, if I many.

Firstly, there's a lot of it about. Lots of folks on here have spoken about it; one way or another. That you identify with it in the first place is a good thing. I'm rather hoping others might touch base with you on it.

It might be helpful, and if not, amusing to watch this video, which carries the label of food addiction, but that of course is a category of disordered eating. Disordered eating is not an amusing topic, but the presentation is light. The audience at the event were health professionals, and others interesting in generally being healthy

Stick around and feel your way forward.

You know, Nelson Mandela was a very wise man who is believed to have said, "Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how many times I fell down and got back up again." I'd say you have got up more times that you have fallen, so stick with it.

He also said, "It always seems impossible until it's done." I'm with him on that.

 

[Badly Drawn Kano]

I'm sorry i haven't responded to so many kind replies, to be honest just writing it all out made me realise how ****ed up it all was and sent me spiralling, but hopefully tomorrow or at the weekend I'll be in a better place and can start trying some of the suggestions out and see if my very, very horrible brain can be in any way retrained to have a different attitude towards food.

 

[Badly Drawn Kano]

I'm not type 2 so take what I say with a grain of salt (is salt ok?).

The first thing I'd do is stop feeling guilty if you still are. Yes, perhaps what you're eating is not "the best" (I don't know and I'm not here to judge). But feeling guilty about eating "bad" foods I don't think is helping anyone. What you eat is important of course but don't beat yourself up about it so much that it makes you feel guilty, that's just probably going to make you more depressed and maybe feed into the cycle (i.e. more depressed, eat more "bad" food).

Anti-depressants are something you could talk to your therapist about but have a proper conversation -- they can have side effects as well

Diabetes (and diet) is hard. You gave up smoking, alcohol, a certain herb and casual sex. I'm not trying to sound glib but weren't those harder to give up than making dietary changes (I still can't give up smoking and the casual sex thing would be nice but I'm not lucky)?

From what I've read on here, low carb eating is the way to go. It's actually quite enjoyable if you can get used to it

Edit: there is low sugar/carb chocolate in my country which I have every night. Is that an option where you are?

Giving up smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done, it was two weeks of feeling physically miserable (and sometimes like my skin had fire ants crawling all over it), but as with the herb (which wasn't fun to quit, but easier) it came down to a question of money, I was smoking so much that a choice had to be made between "Do I quit these things, or do I stick with them and end up homeless?". Casual sex wasn't something I quit by choice either, I had a friend with benefits situation but then she met her current partner and it came to an end, and now the anti-depressants I'm mean that I'm unable to have sex more than once a week as it is (and I've now reached an age where I no longer want casual sex, but a longterm loving partner), and I quit alcohol because I went out earlier this year for a friend of a friend's birthday, he drunkenly started a fight and it's a miracle he wasn't killed, they beat him in such a way that it was terrifying (I'm pretty sure all were either in the military or at least had been) due to the way they were hitting him, and I hid in the corner absolutely terrified, and haven't touched a drop since.

I know the above is all a bit extreme but the main reason I quit my vices are due to no longer being able to afford them, I'm physically unable to indulge, or slightly traumatised by what I saw, whereas crisps, croissants, chocolate, etc, etc, aren't an issue and as they're my only way to get a high it seems I'm really struggling, despite the physical pain it causes me.

I will do my best to go low carb, and I'm in the UK, London, out of interest, what's the low sugar / carb chocolate you have each day?

@Badly Drawn Kano - I'm not going to make any comment on your diet, because plenty others have gone there, but I would like to touch on your disordered eating, if I many.

Firstly, there's a lot of it about. Lots of folks on here have spoken about it; one way or another. That you identify with it in the first place is a good thing. I'm rather hoping others might touch base with you on it.

It might be helpful, and if not, amusing to watch this video, which carries the label of food addiction, but that of course is a category of disordered eating. Disordered eating is not an amusing topic, but the presentation is light. The audience at the event were health professionals, and others interesting in generally being healthy

Stick around and feel your way forward.

You know, Nelson Mandela was a very wise man who is believed to have said, "Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how many times I fell down and got back up again." I'd say you have got up more times that you have fallen, so stick with it.

He also said, "It always seems impossible until it's done." I'm with him on that.

Thank you for the above too, I'd not heard of the phrase disordered eating before, but will look in to it.

 

[Badly Drawn Kano]

Do you bake?
If you do a google search on 'keto cake' (or on any food with 'keto' added) you'll get lots of recipes on cakes that won't mess with your blood glucose!

Oops, I meant to incorporate that in the above post, but while I haven't baked in about twenty odd years I used to be quite good at it, so that does sound like it's worth giving it a shot.

I'm really sorry again that I haven't responded to everyone, it's been an unexpectedly busy time, but I have read them all and will try many of the tips when it comes to diet to see what suits me best, and thank you for taking the time out to reply to me.