Folate deficiency

Jeannette50

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Both my husband and I were diagnosed with low folate this month. Our Lab reference is 3-5 and our results werre 2.8 and 2.7 respectively- this set me on my research path. There appears to be no consistent reference range in the UK even when using the same measure. Our lab and Teeside uses ug/L and yet Teeside Lab ref is 1-20. This cannot be right and that is just for starters in terms of my research. Folic acid is a synthetic formulation of the form the body uses from food and the synthetic form has some quite serious potential to cause harm. The most worrying thing I came across with regards to folic acid was the fact that not enough is known about the long term effects especially with people who may have colon issues or other un-diagnosed conditions - GPs themselves are concerned that folic acid is being over prescribed because the low end of the reference levels are too high:
Given that not enough studies (or enough detail) has gone into folic acid on sufficient ranges of people I am very wary of this supplement. The only area of research that I feel is comprehensive for folic acid is for pregnant women - even then I see that many pregnant women opt for a supplement that does not have the issues that folic acid does. While I see that there are papers stating that folic acid is better absorbed than purer folate supplements, I also see papers stating the opposite! What is more most people appear to be prescribed folate (5mg which is very high) based on blood test using serum folate which does not give an accurate reading of the body stores. "Since both Folate and vitamin B12 deficiency can cause macrocytic anemia, appropriate treatment depends on the differential diagnosis of the deficiency. Serum Folate measurement provides an early index of Folate status. However, Folate is much more concentrated in red blood cells than in serum so the red blood cell Folate measurement more closely reflects tissue stores. Red blood cell Folate concentration is considered the most reliable indicator of Folate Status." I will end with this - I believe that neural tube defects in babies have reduced considerably since the use of folic acid. However more natural folate may have the same effect and be overall safer given tha mothers are supposed to supplement while breast feeding also, so a fair length of time. I am of an age that when I had my children no supplements were given and no dietary advice either (I ate well but just ate what I wanted - some healthy and some not, by today's standards). Both my children grew up fit and healthy. I had included some useful links but could not post them - error 'spam' came up. So sorry but you should easily find this info online.
 
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Tophat1900

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Hiu @hill4332
I hope the following might clear up some of the confusion, based on what I could source and not as professional advice or opinion: There are two folate tests - serum folate and RBC folate. Serum folate is said to be less accurate than the RBC(red blood cell) folate readings as far as establishing if the body is short of folate. Serum is the fluid in blood less the cells in the blood. The red blood cell seems to reflect what is happening in the rest of the cells of the body.

Thanks for posting this. I had my last RBC done 10 days ago. Reference range on the report is (4.2 - 6.0) mine was 5.4

So I am going to assume my folate is fine, I do take a B-vitamin complex which contains 90mcg of folic acid. So I'm guessing my b12 would most likely be okay, but wonder about folic acid impact on B12
 

kitedoc

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Hi @Tophat1900, good question. My understanding is that taking folate can use up some the vitamin B12. If one's serum b12 levels are low, then the extra folate might tip the scales towards B12 deficiency.
That is why the two tests (folate + B12) are performed at the same time.
see labtestsonline.com B12 and folate tests.
Best Wishes from muggy Adelaide (weather-wise )!!!
 

Tophat1900

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Hi @Tophat1900, good question. My understanding is that taking folate can use up some the vitamin B12. If one's serum b12 levels are low, then the extra folate might tip the scales towards B12 deficiency.
That is why the two tests (folate + B12) are performed at the same time.
see labtestsonline.com B12 and folate tests.
Best Wishes from muggy Adelaide (weather-wise )!!!


I have read that site and used it a lot. My understanding of B12 serum tests is they are not so great reliability wise, but the methylmalonic acid (MMA) and homocysteine (HC) are more accurate tests for B12 deficiency. So, I will probably ask about getting those checked if need be. Waiting on other results after telling my doctor about poor sleep, forgetfulness, and a few other things. So had B12 done today, along with thyroid and other levels.

It's muggy here too, but always is in the summer on the east coast NSW/Qld border. :)
 

Amanda G

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There is a big difference between folic acid and methyl folate.

If you have, as a lot of people do, an MTHFR mutation, then you need a daily dose of the latter and none of the former.

Ô
I have followed low carb diet for quite a while but Hba1c just getting worse. (56). I recently found i had low folate. ( indeterminate 3?)

I just looked at my 123 and me result and it appears i have a MTHFR mutation. And i also found this paper which says broadly that low folate is related to insulin resistance and decreased insulin manufacture..

Associations of MTHFR C677T polymorphism with insulin resistance, results of NURSE Study (Nursing Unacquainted Related Stress Etiologies) Motahareh Kheradmand1, Zhila Maghbooli2, Sedigheh Salemi3 and Mahnaz Sanjari4,5*
Open Access

I cannot add a link to the paper because i am a new member and havent made enough posts....... however, i am hoping that, for me, the inability to process folic acid, might be the answer to the diabetes type 2 and the weight. I have just begun taking methyl folate daily.

I mentioned this to my doctor but she was really patronising and didnt want to know. :-(

Amanda x
 
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HSSS

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Ô
I have followed low carb diet for quite a while but Hba1c just getting worse. (56). I recently found i had low folate. ( indeterminate 3?)

I just looked at my 123 and me result and it appears i have a MTHFR mutation. And i also found this paper which says broadly that low folate is related to insulin resistance and decreased insulin manufacture..

Associations of MTHFR C677T polymorphism with insulin resistance, results of NURSE Study (Nursing Unacquainted Related Stress Etiologies) Motahareh Kheradmand1, Zhila Maghbooli2, Sedigheh Salemi3 and Mahnaz Sanjari4,5*
Open Access

I cannot add a link to the paper because i am a new member and havent made enough posts....... however, i am hoping that, for me, the inability to process folic acid, might be the answer to the diabetes type 2 and the weight. I have just begun taking methyl folate daily.

I mentioned this to my doctor but she was really patronising and didnt want to know. :-(

Amanda x

Interesting. So if you cannot process folic acid what is the answer? In this instance does supplementation work or is that just more unprocessed amounts passing through your body.
 

Brunneria

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Interesting. So if you cannot process folic acid what is the answer? In this instance does supplementation work or is that just more unprocessed amounts passing through your body.

There are a few different forms of folate/folic acid available, and supplements in different amounts. So there are several to try. Some are more easily absorbed.

I did some reading and settled on ‘optimised folate l-methylfolate’ 1000mcg per tab. But even with these big doses, I needed to take 2 tabs a day to raise my levels up to the bottom of the normal range. Because I don’t absorb it like normal ppl do.
I’m now on 1 tab a day unless i start to feel tired again, at which point i go back to 2 for a while.

Personally, I don’t think the cheap ordinary supplements sold in highstreet type shops are worth taking. For me, anyway.
 

Amanda G

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Interesting. So if you cannot process folic acid what is the answer? In this instance does supplementation work or is that just more unprocessed amounts passing through your body.
If you cannot process folic acid, you need methyl folate. Folic acid is converted to folate by a process of methylation. ( at least thats how i understand it from the paper, please correct me if i am wrong)
 

Amanda G

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There are a few different forms of folate/folic acid available, and supplements in different amounts. So there are several to try. Some are more easily absorbed.

I did some reading and settled on ‘optimised folate l-methylfolate’ 1000mcg per tab. But even with these big doses, I needed to take 2 tabs a day to raise my levels up to the bottom of the normal range. Because I don’t absorb it like normal ppl do.
I’m now on 1 tab a day unless i start to feel tired again, at which point i go back to 2 for a while.

Personally, I don’t think the cheap ordinary supplements sold in highstreet type shops are worth taking. For me, anyway.
Ah! I am taking 400 mcg per tablet and was wondering if i should take more to boost levels.. its only been a week... can you point me in the direction of dosage advice please. My b12 wasnt great but i thought i would do the folate first.

Thank you..
 

Brunneria

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Ah! I am taking 400 mcg per tablet and was wondering if i should take more to boost levels.. its only been a week... can you point me in the direction of dosage advice please. My b12 wasnt great but i thought i would do the folate first.

Thank you..

I can’t really. Sorry!

The bottle i have says 1 tab a day. So that is what I started on, then upped it after a while because I wasn’t seeing ANY benefit. And after a couple of weeks I started to feel... less weighed down/tired. So I stuck with it for a few months, and then when I eased off (went on hol and forgot to take my supplements, cough!) the feeling came back. So I started went up to 2 tabs again.

Subsequent blood tests have shown that I have moved from being VERY deficient to being just into the normal range. There is a long way to go before I hit the middle of the normal range.

But I am uncomfortable with the idea of anyone basing their dosing on my experience. I have the aforementioned malabsorption, and I really doubt that my experience would align with anyone else’s. Although having said that, I really hope you get your dose right and it helps. It has certainly made a difference for me. :)
 
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Winnie53

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Interesting and informative discussion.

I recently paid to have a lot of lab work done, most of which doctors don't check. My homocysteine level is 9.9 - (normal is 10.4 umol/L here in the USA. So now I'm wondering if I have one or more of the MTHFR genes, also if my folate and/or B12 is low. If you Google "Chris Kresser neuropathy" or "RHR: What Causes Neuropathy - And How To Treat It", he explains quite a bit, here's the link...

https://chriskresser.com/what-causes-neuropathy-and-how-to-treat-it/

He does mention folate but is more focused on B12.

I checked prices. I can have my B12 and folate levels checked for $139 or my methylmalonic acid (urine) checked for $180. Not sure. I've already laid out $750 for testing.

I haven't been taking my B-complex made from whole foods for a while now, so am also wondering if I should do above testing before or after resuming taking the B-complex. (And if I do respond to the B-complex, am going to assume that the genetic testing or taking the methylated B vitamins won't be necessary).

My concern is brain health, not just the neuropathy. I have to work, and I have to keep my brain working so I can continue to work.

This is a very complex area to dive into.