Food combining?

Flane

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Prediabetes
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Hi, I am wondering if combining carbs with fats reduces blood sugar spikes and whether this could eventually reduce Hba1C? For example, wholemeal bread and peanut butter, oatcakes and cheese, porridge and Greek yoghurt etc? My level is 45 and I thought I ate "healthily" but perhaps not!
Many thanks.
 

filly

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Spicy food which is too hot. Nasty people who have no idea on your life journey but feel the need to comment and be cruel.
What is healthy for us and everyone else is the 64 thousand dollar question.
I adore porridge but haven't been able to eat it since pre diabetic. It is a question of trying, testing 2 hours after and seeing where you are.
That way you will be able to tell what foods affect you.
Very best of luck.
 

KennyA

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Hi, I am wondering if combining carbs with fats reduces blood sugar spikes and whether this could eventually reduce Hba1C? For example, wholemeal bread and peanut butter, oatcakes and cheese, porridge and Greek yoghurt etc? My level is 45 and I thought I ate "healthily" but perhaps not!
Many thanks.
Hi and welcome. There is what is called the "pizza effect" where for some people (I don't seem to be one of them) having fats and carbs together seems to slow down the digestion of carb, so that glucose arrives in your blood not quite so quickly. But it still arrives in the blood and has to be dealt with.

This might mean that the blood glucose levels don't rise quite so high in the short term (I hate the term "spike" for a perfectly normal thing like this) but stay elevated for much longer. My personal view is that a short-term rise which is done and over inside two hours is nothing for me to worry about, and it is exactly what happens in non-diabetic people. My usual example is that one small latte will take me from 5ish to 9.6 inside an hour (because of the lactose in the milk), but I'll be back to 5ish by 90 minutes. That, for me, is not a problem. I would be much more concerned if my BG went to (say) 7.5 and stayed there for four hours.


I think you might be able to control the rate at which glucose arrives in the bloodstream. The issue as far as HbA1c is concerned is that glucose in the bloodstream is what glycates the haemoglobin, and you need less of it to have less glycated Hb. I am not sure that changing the rate of absorption would do much to lower overall levels, which wouild result in a lower HbA1c. It might also have the opposite effect if carb consumption was to increase because you're not getting the post-food warning signal of a bigger rise in BG short-term.
 

lovinglife

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Hi, I am wondering if combining carbs with fats reduces blood sugar spikes and whether this could eventually reduce Hba1C? For example, wholemeal bread and peanut butter, oatcakes and cheese, porridge and Greek yoghurt etc? My level is 45 and I thought I ate "healthily" but perhaps not!
Many thanks.
Doesn’t work for me, I just go higher later for longer, the fat does slow down the rise from the carbs, but they still have to be dealt with eventually, google the “pizza effect” this may explain it better for you.

But like @filly says the only way to know if it’s ok for you is to test, if you do decide to try it I would advise testing at 3hrs also and maybe even 4hrs as testing at 2 hrs you may miss the rise & spike
 
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Flane

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Thank you all. That all makes sense. I haven't done any glucose monitoring but perhaps I should - with a CGM? Will research.
 

KennyA

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Thank you all. That all makes sense. I haven't done any glucose monitoring but perhaps I should - with a CGM? Will research.
Rather than splashing out straight away on a CGM I would maybe suggest starting off with a glucose meter. You'll need one anyway to check and calibrate what a CGM would be telling you. Once you've got the hang of what happens after eating various foods etc, CGM data will make a lot more sense and you should be able to separate the food impacts from the other things that will change your blood glucose.

One thing I would strongly recommend alongside testing is keeping a food and readings diary. I just used ordinary diaries, but there are ones specially designed and electronic ones, although I like having a paper record I can easily consult. I found that record invaluable in the early days and now I can look back and see how I was stumbling towards understanding how things worked. If you do use a CGM you'll need to have some notion of what was causing the ups and downs - food and what food? illness? temperature? stress? exercise? etc.
 

Sixpence

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Hi, I'm trying to get back on track with a low carb diet. I gave up for 5 years because I found it so difficult. After being told to combine carbs with fats to lower the spike I'm wondering if this is a good advice eg chips are better for me than boiled potatoes. When I'm out and about I often go for a ham and cheese toasted sandwich or a BLT on wholemeal bread if there's nothing else available but will this have the pizza effect too? Is it just that fat causes insulin resistance? I know testing is the answer but it's not always convenient as I use a meter not a CGM.
 

Angela64

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268
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Tablets (oral)
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T2 and PAF & now Haemochromatosis!
Hi, I'm trying to get back on track with a low carb diet. I gave up for 5 years because I found it so difficult. After being told to combine carbs with fats to lower the spike I'm wondering if this is a good advice eg chips are better for me than boiled potatoes. When I'm out and about I often go for a ham and cheese toasted sandwich or a BLT on wholemeal bread if there's nothing else available but will this have the pizza effect too? Is it just that fat causes insulin resistance? I know testing is the answer but it's not always convenient as I use a meter not a CGM.
No chips aren’t better than boiled:( Steamed or boiled is better but…. Still carby. Apparently frozen mashed potatoes can be better. I read a lot of things and it depends on different peoples reactions. I limit my chip consumption to about 6 I had fish n chips last night which I can remove most of the batter/bread crumbs.
Yes Low Carb High Protien is hard and we all fall off the wagon, get stressed and irritated BUT as my consultant Endocrinologist said ‘You’ve gotta live’ I try to remember this.
I have two books that might be useful for you, bought on Amazon - Carbs & Cals Carb & Calorie Counter by Chris Cheyenne & Yello Balolia supported by Diabetes UK AND GI & Calorie counter by Dr Winnie Chan.
I find them helpful. I do not bother with calories or fat, just the carb value. I eat fats and normal fat milk and yogurts, we need it.

If I’m in a positive mood, I try and adapt recipes to make them lower carb by substituting some ingredients.
 
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lovinglife

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Hi, I'm trying to get back on track with a low carb diet. I gave up for 5 years because I found it so difficult. After being told to combine carbs with fats to lower the spike I'm wondering if this is a good advice eg chips are better for me than boiled potatoes. When I'm out and about I often go for a ham and cheese toasted sandwich or a BLT on wholemeal bread if there's nothing else available but will this have the pizza effect too? Is it just that fat causes insulin resistance? I know testing is the answer but it's not always convenient as I use a meter not a CGM.
None of those would work for me and yes they would all have the pizza effect, in my opinion high carb high fat diet isn’t good for anyone diabetic or not, I always manage to find something to “modify” when I’m out, so for instance if all that was available was the BLT sandwich- I’d eat the filling but not the bread.

Why do you feel it’s not always convenient to test with your meter? I’ve never used a CGM in my 14 years only a meter and I test anywhere& everywhere- as long as your hands are relatively clean there shouldn’t be a problem. Is it because you feel uncomfortable testing in public? Believe me no one will notice and if they do your taking care of your health, which is far more important than:)
 

Chris24Main

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It's worth reflecting on the fact that the sugar industry first objected to the use of the term Glycaemic Index, but then got quite enthusiastically behind it.

Many in the space recommend thinking about the Glycaemic Load - which is to say as others are saying, it's all got to be dealt with one way or another ... the rate of change of blood glucose is one thing, but in many ways it's the rate of change of insulin (which you don't see) which is the problem.

If you ignore that and enthusiastically get behind the concept of GI exclusively (as the industry largely has done) - then you can advertise things as being "healthy" because they have additions that can change the GI, however marginally, and however differently people may actually respond.
 

kbdaddymack

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Hi, I'm trying to get back on track with a low carb diet. I gave up for 5 years because I found it so difficult. After being told to combine carbs with fats to lower the spike I'm wondering if this is a good advice eg chips are better for me than boiled potatoes. When I'm out and about I often go for a ham and cheese toasted sandwich or a BLT on wholemeal bread if there's nothing else available but will this have the pizza effect too? Is it just that fat causes insulin resistance? I know testing is the answer but it's not always convenient as I use a meter not a CGM.
I have found that having carb free days works well, but as soon as you introduce catbs back in again, you get the spikes, albeit a bit lower. Intermittent fasting and having fats helps lower the spikes. Eg instead of breakfast have a bullet proof coffee - i make mine with with coconut oil and butter blended- tastes like a latte and makes you feel full. At least it gives your body a few hours more without carbs.
 
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Chris24Main

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Couldn't agree more, having had exactly that this morning...!
 

KennyA

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Hi, I'm trying to get back on track with a low carb diet. I gave up for 5 years because I found it so difficult. After being told to combine carbs with fats to lower the spike I'm wondering if this is a good advice eg chips are better for me than boiled potatoes. When I'm out and about I often go for a ham and cheese toasted sandwich or a BLT on wholemeal bread if there's nothing else available but will this have the pizza effect too? Is it just that fat causes insulin resistance? I know testing is the answer but it's not always convenient as I use a meter not a CGM.
Rises in blood glucose are to be expected after eating carb in any quantity. This is perfectly normal. It is not a "spike". I'd reserve that term for an abnormal, unexpected, and large rise. Personally, my approach is that to reduce both the rise in blood glucose and to shorten the time BG is elevated, the best thing is not to eat the carb in the first place - that's what works for me. It's quite convenient for the food industry to convince people to focus on "preventing" a higher rise that might last only a matter of minutes, rather than a slightly lower rise that may persist for hours. The damage from elevated levels of glucose are to do with higher levels over time. It's not really clear which has most impact, as I've never found any research on it.

However if you look at the BG profiles of non-diabetic people, it seems to be absolutely clear that after carbs they will experience short-term rises to comparatively high levels, which do not last long. If that's the "normal" profile, that's the one I'd prefer to follow.

btw - Dietary fat doesn't cause insulin resistance. Dietary fat is not digested to glucose, so does not stimulate an insulin response. If no insulin response, no increase in insulin resistance.
 

Sixpence

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Thanks for your replies everyone. I think I'm just going to go back to the old rule of protein + few carbs = ok, protein + fat = ok. carb + fat = disaster!
 

Pat5496

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I suggest reading the book The Glucose Revolution (get it on Amazon etc.) and/or The Glucose Goddess Method (by the same author). I regularly follow the hacks she suggests and it has made a significant difference in managing spikes.
 
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I suggest reading the book The Glucose Revolution (get it on Amazon etc.) and/or The Glucose Goddess Method (by the same author). I regularly follow the hacks she suggests and it has made a significant difference in managing spikes.
My personal opinion is that we need to be somewhat wary of
the advice offered by so many of these internet "influencers",
particularly those that're health related, and additionally with a
vested financial interest in marketing their products—such as
the self-styled "Glucose Goddess".

People here might like to check out Doctors outraged by Glucose Goddess' $65 'snake oil' supplement that claims to help you eat what you want and stay skinny - but does it work?
 

BoldItalic

Member
Messages
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Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Hi, I am wondering if combining carbs with fats reduces blood sugar spikes and whether this could eventually reduce Hba1C? For example, wholemeal bread and peanut butter, oatcakes and cheese, porridge and Greek yoghurt etc? My level is 45 and I thought I ate "healthily" but perhaps not!
Many thanks.
I don't know the answer yet but I'm hoping to find out next month. I've been on lo-carb for a couple of years and kept my HbA1C to 41 (diagnosed at 50) but I've lost weight and my BMI dropped to around 16 which is worrying. I've been referred to a dietician who firmly believes that it's only peak glucose levels that matter and duration of peaks doesn't. She also believes in eating snacks between meals and that eating more fat and protein at the same time as carbs will reduce the effect so is urging me to eat more of everything to put on weight. I've been obediently doing that for two months now, and after another month I will get an HbA1c test done to see if it's true. I have put on about 4kg so that's working. Doing finger-prick tests, I'm getting 5 peaks a day instead of three but the peaks are indeed shorter - maybe 4 hours instead of 6 - going from a baseline of 5 to a maximum of around 8 which I can't complain about. On that basis, maybe the HbA1c won't be so bad. Fingers crossed.
 
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Chris24Main

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My personal opinion is that we need to be somewhat wary of
the advice offered by so many of these internet "influencers",
particularly those that're health related, and additionally with a
vested financial interest in marketing their products—such as
the self-styled "Glucose Goddess".

People here might like to check out Doctors outraged by Glucose Goddess' $65 'snake oil' supplement that claims to help you eat what you want and stay skinny - but does it work?
It is funny isn't it, how quickly the outrage and attacks kick off? particularly when so much of the food industry is about selling us things that we don't really need.

I've read Jesse Inschaupés book, listened to her personal story, and seen her interviewed many times. I don't do Instagram, though I believe that this is her main channel. I also read that article and filed it under the general "how dare this person challenge the narrative" line of reaction. I find her genuine, engaging and empathic. Her personal focus is more on reducing glucose spikes in the context of mental issues and aging - all of which is backed up by pretty good science. No, that cake isn't going to become any more nutritious, but there is a reasonable argument that if you have the supplement prior, there will be slightly less effect from the sugar rush. Better not to have the cake at all, but this article isn't arguing for banning cake.

Most of the current nutritional guidelines across the world can be pretty well traced back to the need to sell industrially refined vegetable oils, a strategy that worked amazingly well, but without any scientific backing to suggest that it was ever positively good.

You also have to consider the source - in this case the balanced, well researched and ethically pure platform of factual, evidence-based reporting that is the Daily Mail.

"It's beyond dangerous!!" - love that quote, and the article goes on to attack the supplement for not doing things that nobody claims it does.

Personally - I'm not in the market for buying the supplement. But - I do think that much of what she suggests in terms of behaviour around food and eating (I'm just the wrong generation for the term 'hacks') - are all based on good science, and definitely, in my opinion, worth trying. I do some, don't do everything.
 

SimonP78

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536
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
Edit: see discussion in the following posts - it looks like what I have read, or at least my interpretation of it, is not true, so please discount the content of this post.
btw - Dietary fat doesn't cause insulin resistance. Dietary fat is not digested to glucose, so does not stimulate an insulin response. If no insulin response, no increase in insulin resistance.
afaiu having high triglyceride levels in the blood stream does increase insulin resistance - whether or not there's a response from the pancreas doesn't matter, it changes how sensitive the receptors are to insulin.

Or at least that was my understanding from reading some papers some time back.

I may well be wrong and am more than happy to be stand corrected - I've not dug into this in any detail as it didn't really concern me (I was looking for something else).

It may be that the studies are confusing causation and correlation (possibly due to the general difficulties of understanding quite how the processes work), or they are skewed (many involve people who already have T2).

Even if there is a link, I don't know whether the magnitude of the effect is even comparable to other causes of insulin resistance such as high glucose diets, lack of exercise, etc.
 
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SimonP78

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536
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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I've read Jesse Inschaupés book, listened to her personal story, and seen her interviewed many times. I don't do Instagram, though I believe that this is her main channel. I also read that article and filed it under the general "how dare this person challenge the narrative" line of reaction. I find her genuine, engaging and empathic. Her personal focus is more on reducing glucose spikes in the context of mental issues and aging - all of which is backed up by pretty good science. No, that cake isn't going to become any more nutritious, but there is a reasonable argument that if you have the supplement prior, there will be slightly less effect from the sugar rush. Better not to have the cake at all, but this article isn't arguing for banning cake.
I must admit I wasn't overly keen on her after reading a promo article in the Daily Mail (not my paper, promise!) in which, as you say, she outlined a range of things which sounded eminently sensible and obvious (though perhaps this is the side effect of having had to think about such things for nearly 40 years). But, then when she got onto justifying the supplement or whatever she was trying to sell (vinegar and books iirc), there was no justification and she seemingly just said she's a scientist so knows what she's talking about so should be trusted.

Lots of proverbial red flags there, but perhaps it was a case of a poorly written piece, and there is useful underlying science to whatever she's trying to sell but there wasn't space in the article.

Quite some time after reading the above article the books came up on Amazon's 99p offer so I purchased them both and must get around to reading them so I can make an informed comment based on more than a Daily Mail article and my gut feeling!