Frowned at by Nurse when I mentioned LCHF

fene48 said:

For heaven's sake mate!
Before you dismiss the warnings about saturated fats ...

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I remember my reaction to reading that saturated fats were good for you. I'd just been diagnosed diabetic, and was reading Dr John Briffa's Escape The Diet Trap, in which he states exactly that. That can't be true, I thought, and was straight onto Google. My years of being lied to were starting to be over.

So, before you accept the warnings about saturated fats, a little self-education (or a lot, as in my case) might change your mind.
Gary Taubes' The Diet Delusion (aka Good Calories, Bad Calories) explains how sat fats came to be demonised in the first place. It's an illuminating read. Uffe Ravnskov MD summarises what Taubes details :

https://www.spacedoc.com/articles/saturated_fat_is_good_for_you_2

Here are a number of other avenues for you to follow up on :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?num......1c.1.64.hp..1.2.640.0..0i155i3.eUlHd-U2JSo

Is this scientific enough for you ?

https://chriskresser.com/new-study-puts-final-nail-in-the-saturated-fat-causes-heart-disease-coffin/
"a meta-analysis concluded that there is no relationship between the intake of saturated fat and the incidence of heart disease or stroke.
Let me put that in layperson’s terms for you:
Eating saturated fat doesn’t cause heart disease."

The demonisation of saturated fats is the reverse to 'heart-healthy' grains. They're both dogmas, unsubstantiated by proper research.

Believe what you want, but are you at least aware of the growing realisation about how saturated fats are actually good for us? Just like cholesterol is good for us (it's high triglycerides that are bad for us, and the best indicator as to whether our LDL is small-particled (and dangerous) or big-particled (and of no threat))

As I said before, there's much good information out there these days. All it takes is the time and effort to explore.
And an open mind.

Be well !
Geoff

Excellent Indy51! Congratulations Mrs Hutt


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app

This was the reaction 3 years ago when I was diagnosed. I was told that I likely had diabetes for years, but had been treated for IBS/stomach ulcers and other symptoms as different things until and eye test showed bleeding behind the right retina and a blood test flagged up very high blood sugar. I was told I would be on statins and Metformin by the second appointment and was given a file of information from The British Diabetic Association - years old xerox copied information!

I went away and searched on the Internet for different treatments for Type 2 diabetes.
The first interesting book I sent for was 'Dr Richard Bernstein's Diabetic Solution' - The complete guide to achieving normal blood sugars. It's a bit technical, but was a good start.

He is in his 80's - a type 1 diabetic on miniscule amounts of insulin and on the High Fat Low Carb diet and 'ate to the meter' - Tested his reaction to different amounts/portions of food by post prandial meter testing (2-3 hours after a meal) until he generally knew how much of a type of food/meal to eat. He helps 5000 diabetic patients with LCHF diet and lowering meds to match. It's the meds that cause the hypo's, so logically they have to be lowered when on this diet. He runs a diabetic lecture series on Youtube. He's much stricter than a type 2 diabetic needs to be, so I was glad to also get help from other USA Doc's I found online.

In the USA Doctors can do their normal 7 years or so training to be GP's, but then others go on to do a few more years training called Functional Medicine - which trains them to do more than match people's symptoms to pharmaceuticals. It trains them in lifestyle and diet and digestion. UK has to catch up in this area. UK's NHS Dr Ranjan Chatterjee went to USA to add Functional medicine to his GP training. Did a TV series here last year and helped many with life/diet advice, but got lots of criticism from old style dietitians and out-of-date Doctors despite the success he was getting. http://www.drchatterjee.co.uk/

I found many other Functional Medicine Doctors in USA who do free Web Seminars for diabetics.Dr Brian Mowll runs one every year. He specialises as a GP Diabetic coach and each year has over 30 different specialists and Doctors on his webinar promoting LCHF diet and explaining the science behind it. James Maskell also runs similar Webinars from The Functional Medicine Forum and encourages many Doctors to go to these to learn new breakthroughs in medicine and treatment: http://functionalforum.com/

I have been on this diet for 3 years now. I now have HbA1C of 41 mmol/mol, instead of 56-58 and prevented myseilf from going onto meds so far and hope to keep it that way for as long as I can. My retina has healed, IBS abated and the faschitis/itchy feet has stopped and I lost 2 1/2 stone in the first 10 months of being on this diet.

I just politely smiled when the diabetic nurse told me not to be afraid of carbs and diabetic meds. I was so glad Diabetes UK has caught up with this way of eating, she does respect them. Learning that 80% of the bad cholesterol that sticks to arteries/ causes amyloids to clog the brain is created via the mechansisms of excess dietry carbohydrates - triglycerides from the liver going to stored fat and glycating cells to make them sticky, disfunctional, malabsorbant to proper nutrients and then causing a host of inflammatory chronic diseases, as well as diabetes, is a revelation that others need to understand.

librarising said:

I remember my reaction to reading that saturated fats were good for you. I'd just been diagnosed diabetic, and was reading Dr John Briffa's Escape The Diet Trap, in which he states exactly that. That can't be true, I thought, and was straight onto Google. My years of being lied to were starting to be over.

So, before you accept the warnings about saturated fats, a little self-education (or a lot, as in my case) might change your mind.
Gary Taubes' The Diet Delusion (aka Good Calories, Bad Calories) explains how sat fats came to be demonised in the first place. It's an illuminating read. Uffe Ravnskov MD summarises what Taubes details :

https://www.spacedoc.com/articles/saturated_fat_is_good_for_you_2

Here are a number of other avenues for you to follow up on :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?num......1c.1.64.hp..1.2.640.0..0i155i3.eUlHd-U2JSo

Is this scientific enough for you ?

https://chriskresser.com/new-study-puts-final-nail-in-the-saturated-fat-causes-heart-disease-coffin/
"a meta-analysis concluded that there is no relationship between the intake of saturated fat and the incidence of heart disease or stroke.
Let me put that in layperson’s terms for you:
Eating saturated fat doesn’t cause heart disease."

The demonisation of saturated fats is the reverse to 'heart-healthy' grains. They're both dogmas, unsubstantiated by proper research.

Believe what you want, but are you at least aware of the growing realisation about how saturated fats are actually good for us? Just like cholesterol is good for us (it's high triglycerides that are bad for us, and the best indicator as to whether our LDL is small-particled (and dangerous) or big-particled (and of no threat))

As I said before, there's much good information out there these days. All it takes is the time and effort to explore.
And an open mind.

Be well !
Geoff

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Geoff,

I truly respect your right to have an opinion and do what you are comfortable with. All I was saying is that there is a lot of rubbish on Google.

One place you might like to check out is the Mayo Clinic and their latest article on the Mediterranean diet. A meta analysis of over 1.5 million people and the results on saturated fats makes interesting reading. Does an organization like the Mayo Clinic and the size of the research give it just a bit of cred??? I know its a Yank site, but putting that aside they seem to have some real brain power - unlike myself. And yes, I recognize and acknowledge the human weakness for picking out items etc which agree with my opinions ( to change one's mind is about as challenging as persuading an atheist that there is a God).
After reading that article (and a few others) its seems to me that the medicos just might know more than we give them credit for.

So all the best Geoff. I will stick to my Mediterranean diet and hope to die of something other than heart trouble. Maybe in the next cycle of existence we can compare notes. No offense mate - I certainly did not want to start and extended ping pong game.

Look after yourself and prosper.

fene48 said:

hope to die of something other than heart trouble

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Like what for instance?

I guess I've never understood the fear of heart disease as sudden cardiac death is about the closest chance any of us get to a fast death, even more so if it happens in our sleep. When I compare it to alternatives like MS and other ghastly chronic autoimmune conditions that kill slowly, inch by agonising inch or some of the really aggressive and nasty cancers, sudden cardiac death sounds like a walk in the park by comparison

When I hear stories like a recent one of a woman acquaintance who'd been dancing, eating, drinking and having a ball at a party who suddenly clutched her chest and keeled over and no amount of resuc could bring her back, my immediate thought was "lucky devil - what a way to go".

Galja said:

I actually read that Mayo newletter on the Mediterranean diet but was howling at what they thought the Mediterranean diet is

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I am glad you have a sense of humor Geoff. After all they are just a bunch of ignorant, uneducated, self serving, self opinionated Yanks who cant tell their left from their right and know which is up.
I am looking forward to your take on the Mediterranean diet.

Indy51 said:

Like what for instance?

I guess I've never understood the fear of heart disease as sudden cardiac death is about the closest chance any of us get to a fast death, even more so if it happens in our sleep. When I compare it to alternatives like MS and other ghastly chronic autoimmune conditions that kill slowly, inch by agonising inch or some of the really aggressive and nasty cancers, sudden cardiac death sounds like a walk in the park by comparison

When I hear stories like a recent one of a woman acquaintance who'd been dancing, eating, drinking and having a ball at a party who suddenly clutched her chest and keeled over and no amount of resuc could bring her back, my immediate thought was "lucky devil - what a way to go".

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True. But my genes make that the likeliest cause of death for this feather duster. Hence my looking for less likely ways to exit this world.

fene48 said:

For heaven's sake mate!
Before you dismiss the warnings about saturated fats, check out the Joslin Diabetec Centre, Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins, Harvard Medical School, American Cardiologists Association for a start (by the way I am not a Yank but an Aussie). There is certainly a place and need for blogs like this - problem being too many people reading blogs and sites where where misinformation is in the majority.
Do you REALLY think all those medical people are idiots, or that it is just a great conspiracy to keep us T1's and T2's hooked on tablets.
You are quite right that there is a lot of good information out there, but please check your fact out at reputable sources.

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Hi Fene48.... I was diagnosed 18 months ago... D2 is in my family but as I have always been slim it was a bit of a shock... I started researching the same day, because I refused the medication I was offered and had to do something to help myself... I came across DCUK, began LCHF and have controlled my numbers perfectly ever since by testing everything I eat for the first time - if it goes over 130 (about 7.1) I never eat it again, or in very small portions as a treat and I generally keep my numbers between 80 and 120 max... my triglycerides are 0.5 from 1.8... that happened in the first three months of LCHF... I have zero calcification..... I am a firm believer now that anything that turns to sugar in your mouth is bad for you if you have diabetes... or even if you don't!! The up-side of it all is that I love the cheese, cream, eggs etc that I had not allowed myself for years - along with most of the people I know.... my mind is so much clearer, my reactions are amazing after years of dropping things on my feet and I have loads of energy now... I hope you do read all the good stuff that the guys here have been posting for you.... they are not preaching from an ivory tower honey, they've all been there and done that.... and got the T-shirts...

fene48 said:

For heaven's sake mate!
Before you dismiss the warnings about saturated fats, check out the Joslin Diabetec Centre, Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins, Harvard Medical School, American Cardiologists Association for a start (by the way I am not a Yank but an Aussie). There is certainly a place and need for blogs like this - problem being too many people reading blogs and sites where where misinformation is in the majority.
Do you REALLY think all those medical people are idiots, or that it is just a great conspiracy to keep us T1's and T2's hooked on tablets.
You are quite right that there is a lot of good information out there, but please check your fact out at reputable sources.

Click to expand...

I think you could do reading this...https://doc.research-and-analytics....=MFT6JQWS+4FvvuMDBUQ7v9g4cGa84/gpv8mURvaRWdQ=

fene48 said:

I am glad you have a sense of humor Geoff. After all they are just a bunch of ignorant, uneducated, self serving, self opinionated Yanks who cant tell their left from their right and know which is up.
I am looking forward to your take on the Mediterranean diet.

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Err, not me who wrote that reply you're responding to : (

Finsky said:

I think you could do reading this...https://doc.research-and-analytics.csfb.com/docView?language=ENG&source=ulg&format=PDF&document_id=1053247551&serialid=MFT6JQWS+4FvvuMDBUQ7v9g4cGa84/gpv8mURvaRWdQ=

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Thanks I definitely will- by the way is this site in the same league as the ones I mentioned?

Fair enough Susikav, each to his own. It is really hard to ignore the warnings about saturated fats and cardiac/circulatory problems. It seems to me we are trading one form of complication for another. However, I truly wish you all the best if it works for you and hope you do not have any long term problems from the LCHF.
Regards Fene

My hubby, since Christmas, has shed just over 2 stones on lchf (actually, I'd say 'moderate' fat to be fair) and a month or so ago came off Victoza. His practice nurse is complimentary about his loss, but he's not really discussed his diet in detail - thought it best not to as she was saying what a difference the drug had made for him... Since coming off it, he's continued to lose.

A friend I accompanied to the dietician though had a horrendous appointment. She's t2 and needs to lose some 6st. They gave her a year of monthly 1:1 appointments, but ill health prevented her attending one. Following their diet had done little for her, so she decided to cut carbs and suddenly the weight started to shift and the bg improving. At the appointment she was roundly praised until asked about her food intake at which point she confessed to her low carb diet. She was told in no uncertain terms to STOP this immediately and to follow the NHS guidance of one third of a plate of starchy carbs at every meal. I despair.

fene48 said:

Thanks I definitely will- by the way is this site in the same league as the ones I mentioned?

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That is matter how you judge the 'league'. If you look at end of that article...there is list of references, can't get much more than that with varied sources....more there is research done by different bodies..less chance there is any possible contradicting influences when research results are reported. I suspect that bigger the institution...more 'back scratching' there is going on with the 'big boys'..it is case of 'follow the money'....call it conspiracy or something else..but it is quite clear what has been going on for YEARS with many other things...statins...sugar....man made fats...lists of these things go on and on..
But...all the research done will speak volumes and evidence is there if you choose to believe it. 'Merits' and titles don't sell the facts for me.

Saturated fat is the best!

Finsky said:

That is matter how you judge the 'league'. If you look at end of that article...there is list of references, can't get much more than that with varied sources....more there is research done by different bodies..less chance there is any possible contradicting influences when research results are reported. I suspect that bigger the institution...more 'back scratching' there is going on with the 'big boys'..it is case of 'follow the money'....call it conspiracy or something else..but it is quite clear what has been going on for YEARS with many other things...statins...sugar....man made fats...lists of these things go on and on..
But...all the research done will speak volumes and evidence is there if you choose to believe it. 'Merits' and titles don't sell the facts for me.

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I guess I must be missing something guys. But just for safety I think I will stick with the qualified mob.

fene48 said:

I guess I must be missing something guys. But just for safety I think I will stick with the qualified mob.

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Yep..indeed.
I have just looked 'merited' Joslin Diabetic Centre's nutritional recommendations for diabetics....all I have to say, if you rate their recommendations and think they are correct...well, good luck to you! I definitely won't be following their advise..NHS advise, although in similar lines but not quite so UNHEALTHY haven't done any favours for me.
I wish all the best for you.......

For those worried by heart disease, you might want to keep an eye out for a new documentary called "The Widowmaker".

One of our members, Ivor Cummins (aka Fat Emperor) gave a lecture prior to a screening of the documentary in Dublin on 11 May 2016 on the root causes of heart disease and the test that could save your life (the CAC - coronary arterial calcium score):

Indy51 said:

For those worried by heart disease, you might want to keep an eye out for a new documentary called "The Widowmaker".

One of our members, Ivor Cummings (aka Fat Emperor) gave a lecture prior to a screening of the documentary in Dublin on 11 May 2016 on the root causes of heart disease and the test that could save your life (the CAC - coronary arterial calcium score):

Click to expand...

How right you are. Also the cardiac MRI is pretty good too. Apparently the resolution is a bit better than .5mm. But ****, there is the cost.