FURLOUGHED...... THEN LET GO

[Muzzer]

I was furloughed by my company back at the start of this and 3 weeks later they terminated my contract of employment. They had to give me 3 months notice.
They were paying me 80% of my salary and said it would return to 100% when I returned to work.
Now they have terminated my contract, they are now paying me 80% and said if I am still within my notice period when the company returns to work, they will put it back to 100% but until then, they will only be paying 80%

Because the furlough system was designed to keep people in work, I was unsure whether they should now be paying me 100% as I am not returning to work?
The Federation for small businesses say they should be paying 100%
The Citizens Advise say they should be paying 100%
ACAS say there is no precedent nor advise from the Government so they cannot say one way or the other
I consulted an employment Barrister who said they are advising all 460 of their clilents that 80% is correct.

So I really don't know where I stand

Anybody had any experience of this ?

 

[searley]

The only guidance is that they are to pay 80% with an optional topup to 100%

The only reason my company paid 100% from that start is that it prevents me looking for other work when furloughed on 80% I could seek other income.

 

[TriciaWs]

Gosh this looks complicated but hopefully you can identify which scenario fits your case?

https://www.outertemple.com/2020/05/notice-pay-when-on-furlough/

 

[Muzzer]

Gosh this looks complicated but hopefully you can identify which scenario fits your case?

https://www.outertemple.com/2020/05/notice-pay-when-on-furlough/

Thanks, that answered my question. I appreciate you spending the time to find that link.
Thanks again

 

[Muzzer]

The only guidance is that they are to pay 80% with an optional topup to 100%

The only reason my company paid 100% from that start is that it prevents me looking for other work when furloughed on 80% I could seek other income.

Thanks - As I understand things, you can look for work elsewhere to supplement income but you cannot work for your current employer whilst on furlough.
It transpires I am entitled to 80% because that is what I agreed to when management approached me. They didn't explain what alternatives I had other than to accept the 80% at that time. I still don't know what alternatives were available.
They could choose to pay me the extra 20% themselves but they didn't.
A few weeks later they gave me my 3 months notice as per my employment contract, they are paying this at 80% too which, it seems, is perfectly legal.
My argument was that the furlough scheme was designed to encourage employers to keep their employees on (not to get rid of them cheaply)

 

[Rokaab]

My argument was that the furlough scheme was designed to encourage employers to keep their employees on (not to get rid of them cheaply)

Looking at it from the other side though, I guess it's possible they did want to keep you on, but can't afford to when furlough is lifted, I think many companies may well find themselves in this position unfortunately.
It's possible they couldn't afford to pay you the extra 20% whilst you are on furlough either, but I don't know, and you may never find out.

Of course its also possible they are just being bad guys, but you have to consider they may be having to do it for the businesses continued existance

 

[Lamont D]

My contract comes to its end at the end of this month.
It is being replaced by a zero hours contract!
With no guarantee of full time work!
I have been employed by this company in many ways, part time, full time on hourly rate, then two and a half years ago contract as a member of staff!

I can understand it but am totally gutted!

How can anyone support zero hour contracts?

This government past and present are putting industrial relations back to the Victorian era!

Can't wait to retire!

Never claimed benefits in my life, can't claim, and struggling on income before all this!
What century are we in?

 

[DCUKMod]

My contract comes to its end at the end of this month.
It is being replaced by a zero hours contract!
With no guarantee of full time work!
I have been employed by this company in many ways, part time, full time on hourly rate, then two and a half years ago contract as a member of staff!

I can understand it but am totally gutted!

How can anyone support zero hour contracts?

This government past and present are putting industrial relations back to the Victorian era!

Can't wait to retire!

Never claimed benefits in my life, can't claim, and struggling on income before all this!
What century are we in?

LamondD, are you actually going to be going back to work at the end of this month, or not?

If not, then you could consider asking your employer to extend your furlough a further month? From August, those still on furlough receive the same level of pay, but employers are expected to meet the employer elements of NI contributions.

If you are going back to work, it seems unlikely they will retain you on a contract, but not ask you to actually do any work at all.

If I recall correctly, you work in sport in some context. As I understand it, many clubs and sporting organisations are really feeling the impacts of 3 months without business revenue, but still with business fixed costs to pay.

I think we're in for a bumpy ride from all of this. COVID-19 will be responsible for far more than ill-health and way to many premature deaths.

 

[Lamont D]

LamondD, are you actually going to be going back to work at the end of this month, or not?

If not, then you could consider asking your employer to extend your furlough a further month? From August, those still on furlough receive the same level of pay, but employers are expected to meet the employer elements of NI contributions.

If you are going back to work, it seems unlikely they will retain you on a contract, but not ask you to actually do any work at all.

If I recall correctly, you work in sport in some context. As I understand it, many clubs and sporting organisations are really feeling the impacts of 3 months without business revenue, but still with business fixed costs to pay.

I think we're in for a bumpy ride from all of this. COVID-19 will be responsible for far more than ill-health and way to many premature deaths.

Hi,
I've not been told yet!
There have been redundancies but it's only the start!
Yes, I work in football and my club is suffering due to a lack of income due to covid 19!
I was the only one that did my work, but I have no doubt they will ask for volunteers to do some of the work done by staff.
I just don't know!
I just feel as though my long and continuous work life with the club is not been appreciated!
Just can't plan for the future and I have lots of bills like everyone else!

Keep safe

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi,
I've not been told yet!
There have been redundancies but it's only the start!
Yes, I work in football and my club is suffering due to a lack of income due to covid 19!
I was the only one that did my work, but I have no doubt they will ask for volunteers to do some of the work done by staff.
I just don't know!
I just feel as though my long and continuous work life with the club is not been appreciated!
Just can't plan for the future and I have lots of bills like everyone else!

Keep safe

if you have a long relationship with the club, you could ask for a "meeting" to discuss it your position - on the basis you want to plan appropriately.

Of course, it's unlikely a meeting would be face-to-face, but Zoom, Teams or any of the other video calling systems can work well. On those you can see the faces, expressions and to an extent the body language of the other person, unlike the flat medium of solely the spoken word. Just make sure you prepare beforehand, so that you can be sure all your points are addressed.

If you do have such a "meeting", I suggest you either have them follow up with the main points in writing, or conversely, make meeting notes and share them with your employer, asking them to confirm it forms a record of the meeting. That could be important later.

One thing I will say is many businesses are facing challenges, the like of which neither they, nor anyone else has experienced before.

My take on what your employer has done is, if your contract was up for renewal, they have put in place an arrangement offering them (the business) as much flexibility as they can manage.

Frustratingly, it could be nothing more than savvy business sense, with their accountants and lawyers behind it.

Try not to feel bitter about it. Try to garner more information.

 

[Lamont D]

if you have a long relationship with the club, you could ask for a "meeting" to discuss it your position - on the basis you want to plan appropriately.

Of course, it's unlikely a meeting would be face-to-face, but Zoom, Teams or any of the other video calling systems can work well. On those you can see the faces, expressions and to an extent the body language of the other person, unlike the flat medium of solely the spoken word. Just make sure you prepare beforehand, so that you can be sure all your points are addressed.

If you do have such a "meeting", I suggest you either have them follow up with the main points in writing, or conversely, make meeting notes and share them with your employer, asking them to confirm it forms a record of the meeting. That could be important later.

One thing I will say is many businesses are facing challenges, the like of which neither they, nor anyone else has experienced before.

My take on what your employer has done is, if your contract was up for renewal, they have put in place an arrangement offering them (the business) as much flexibility as they can manage.

Frustratingly, it could be nothing more than savvy business sense, with their accountants and lawyers behind it.

Try not to feel bitter about it. Try to garner more information.

Thanks for that, I have already put things into motion that you have covered.

However, my club announced redundancies yesterday. Which I'm totally gutted about, but so far, not me!
I would have thought that because of the furlough system, the club could have held off a couple of months longer, to see situation then.

Just think that industrial relations are being used by a government that treats workers really poorly!

 

[Rokaab]

I would have thought that because of the furlough system, the club could have held off a couple of months longer, to see situation then.

I'm guessing its because there's a time period of consultation that has to be done in redundancies (depends on how many are being made redundant I think), so if they think they wont be able to keep people when furlough is lifted they're having to make them redundant now as redundancies can take a while.
Note: that my understanding of how it works, but I may be wrong.

 

[DCUKMod]

@Lamont D - I totally agree with @Rokaab relating to the consultation period. For some it will be a longer process than forothers.

To be honest, I don't see how any government could be expected to foot the country's wage bill for much longer. The economic cost has already been ginagerous.

I'm so sorry that this is hitting you personally, but the bigger picture and the short term economic outlook is pretty shocking to be honest.

 

[Lamont D]

I agree to some (mostly!) Extent!

Not to be political, but as usual the lower classes in this country are again getting hurt where it hurts most! I'm not saying that some others aren't, but this has been no coincidence after ten years of political dogma, that this virus is hitting the elderly in care homes the most!

How can Boris say that the government response has been a success in any way at all!
60,000+ excess deaths is another feather in its cap! (Enough!)
And it's got a long way to go yet!