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Going It Alone

If one can't descriminate one has to live by faith alone!

Ignorance can lead to wrong decisions.
If I have doubts I can ask my daughter.
Twice in the last year she has told me not to take medications I was prescribed because they conflicted with my health situation.
D

Daibell said:
I think you place too much faith in medical professionals. In the UK we have to go thru our GP and many diabetics are managed, like me, just by their GP and/or DN. GPs cover a ridiculous range of conditions and become jack of all trades and master of none - they are not superhuman. Many GPs know little about diabetes which puts us at risk if we don't do our own homework. My first 'diabetes expert' GP knew very little about diabetes and my second one is an excellent GP but knew little about diabetes when she managed me and then handed me over to the real expert DN. Yes, if you have multiple conditions you need to take extra care but if you want to survive in this world you need to use a bit of your own intelligence and know which experts to use be it the GP or Dr Google
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ringi said:
I never said sodium increase potassium, I just said the reason for low potassium is often low sodium. (potassium is coming in at a slow rate from most people's diet)
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Your quibbling ringi I read what you said. You believe sodium is a universal cure all! :);)
 
lindisfel said:
Ignorance can lead to wrong decisions.
If I have doubts I can ask my daughter.
Twice in the last year she has told me not to take medications I was prescribed because they conflicted with my health situation.
D
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So you think we should listen to HCPs then give us 2 examples of why we shouldn’t and maybe a third as your daughter has countermanded your own HCP’s instructions!
I think I’ll go it alone thanks.
 
lucylocket61 said:
I sort of go it alone as my HCP's so far, except in the last 6 months, have refused to engage in any meaningful conversations about diet, or me not having statins or bp meds. I have tried for 6 year to have discussions and, except recently, have just ended up seething at being patronised, and not listened to, even with the evidence or my lowered HbA1c in front of them.

My previous DN's experience ends with them saying i will regret not taking statins etc, and that I cant possibly have lowered my HbA1c without having lost a lot of weight, it doesnt work that way. I have asked how they think I am faking my results, but get no answers except that maybe I was initially misdiagnosed. I wont go into the self testing reactions I get.

I haven seen a GP at all yet, not even on diagnosis. However, for other health issues, my HCP's are good.

However, I am not going blindly alone, in that I read a lot, look at videos and links highlighted on here, listen to the people posting and their experiences, and them try to either make informed changes or formulate questions to clarify stuff I learn.
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One would be going in blind if one didn't have a full suite of blood tests.
 
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bulkbiker said:
So you think we should listen to HCPs then give us 2 examples of why we shouldn’t and maybe a third as your daughter has countermanded your own HCP’s instructions!
I think I’ll go it alone thanks.
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Oh dear Bulkbiker I didn't think you just saw in black and white!:)

I thought the medications were contraindicated anyway.
The guidelines for blood pressure in the UK recommend a drug that causes heart failure.
I'm merely pointing out one has to be discriminating in this life.
I have more time for experience than I have for inexperience.

One doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I would be dead now if I had listened to a local hospitals treatment for stg 3 prostate cancer 15 years ago.
I went to see a specialists privately elsewhere and got five star radical treatment at a proper cancer centre on the n.h.s.
 
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For my diabetes care I use google to find multiple sources, this forum weighing more heavily than other sources, and I decide what I want to change in my care. I then speak with my HCP (GP-nurse with learning in diabetes, in my case) to see what she says. If she agrees, all is well, if she doesn't we try to find out why we have a different opinion. In the end, we've always met, and I hope it will stay this way.
Should we not be able to agree on something in the future, I'll ask to see a specialist doctor, as I have more faith in my own research than in hers.
On non-diabetic matters I usually do as doctor says, but only after googling the heck out of it and checking interactions with any current medicines or conditions. I did prevent a HCP from prescribing me something not suitable in my case and I always ask if any medication is necessary or could we see how things go for a couple more days.
 
lindisfel said:
Hi all,
I get the distinct impression that some of you guys believe we should guide our own journey with metabolic disease.
I feel this can be unwise and your medical professionals should be fully aware of the measures you are taking.

If one has more than one metabolic condition it is even more imperative we seek medical advice/help from outside this forum.
Virta health, much quoted by us all, is in the health business and people in States get insurance companies to pay for them going through the process of going low carb high fat with them, they are continually monitored.
I have have read of instances where potassium has dropped so seriously on keto, patients have died.
regards
Derek
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Ummm....what??

"I have have read of instances where potassium has dropped so seriously on keto, patients have died." So, how many? How frequent is this? Roughly what percentage of people on "keto" have died from potassium deficiency? And of those, how many were not under medical supervision?

Unless you can quote figures, this is just a "straw man" with no substance, designed to add a scare factor to managing your own eating.

I discuss my methods of BG control with my specialist diabetic nurse every 6 months but I manage my condition on a day-to-day basis without medical supervision.

I test for ketones using equipment I bought myself without medical supervision.

In what way is this wrong?
 
lindisfel said:
Oh dear Bulkbiker I didn't think you just saw in black and white!:)

I thought the medications were contraindicated anyway.
The guidelines for blood pressure in the UK recommend a drug that causes heart failure.
I'm merely pointing out one has to be discriminating in this life.
I have more time for experience than I have for inexperience.

One doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I would be dead now if I had listened to Carlisle hospitals treatment for stg 3 prostate cancer 15 years ago.
I went to see a specialists privately elsewhere and got five star radical treatment at a proper cancer centre on the n.h.s.
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I don't but you seem to keep providing us with evidence that HCP's (with I'm sure the notable exception of your daughter and a few others) are an unreliable bunch - then ask why we seek our own way? I would say that from your experience its patently obvious why blind trust in HCP's may be fatal. The third highest cause of death in the USA? Prescription drugs. I rest my Doctors bag.
 
LittleGreyCat said:
Ummm....what??

"I have have read of instances where potassium has dropped so seriously on keto, patients have died." So, how many? How frequent is this? Roughly what percentage of people on "keto" have died from potassium deficiency? And of those, how many were not under medical supervision?

Unless you can quote figures, this is just a "straw man" with no substance, designed to add a scare factor to managing your own eating.

I discuss my methods of BG control with my specialist diabetic nurse every 6 months but I manage my condition on a day-to-day basis without medical supervision.

I test for ketones using equipment I bought myself without medical supervision.

In what way is this wrong?
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I didn't say you were wrong.
Use your own judgment if you think you know best.
Why do Phinney's patients have medic guided low carb high fat and keto?
They make a multi million business out it and you say you don't need medical help.

I personally know the keto diet could cause serious problems with patients with Primary Aldosteronism which is perhaps 10% of all resistant hypertensives and blanket advice is not something I would follow.
 
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lindisfel said:
I didn't say you were wrong.
Use your own judgment if you think you know best.
Why do Phinney's patients have medic guided low carb high fat and keto?
I personally know the keto diet could cause serious problems with patients with Primary Aldosteronism which is perhaps 10% of all resistant hypertensives.
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No response on the incidence of death by low potassium, I note.
 
LittleGreyCat said:
No response on the incidence of death by low potassium, I note.
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Well just look up deaths due to PA which causes low potassium.

How many lives are saved by keto as opposed to low carb?

I am sure there are plenty die from hypokalemia but the cause for hypokalemia may not be recorded.
 
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lindisfel said:
Why do Phinney's patients have medic guided low carb high fat and keto?
They make a multi million business out it and you say you don't need medical help.
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Two factors
  • Look at how many drugs most of them are on.
  • Most people do not have the motivation to do it without a lot of surport
They can only make a muti million business out of it, due to how over priced drugs and inslin is in the USA.
 
lindisfel said:
Well just look up deaths due to PA which causes low potassium.

How many lives are saved by keto as opposed to low carb?

I am sure there are plenty die from hypokalemia but the cause for hypokalemia may not be recorded.
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Remember that the medical establishment is trying very hard to prove the keto is unsafe, so we would know it if there was any real issues.
 
ringi said:
Two factors
  • Look at how many drugs most of them are on.
  • Most people do not have the motivation to do it without a lot of surport
They can only make a muti million business out of it, due to how over priced drugs and inslin is in the USA.
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Sad, no help then for the millions of diabetics in the UK then?

It to be hoped when the treatment plan rolled out nationwide by Dr.Unwin and others is applied there will be HCP's available to guide patients safely through its pitfalls.
 
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lindisfel said:
Some of you guys are close to having cult mentality. It all black and white to some.
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a cult mentality is blindly following someone or something with little or no evidence.

i do not see that here on this thread, I see people asking your for your evidence, with the backdrop of their evidence that they have listed.
 
If mainstream medical and dietary advice had better track record for treating type 2 diabetes, there would have been little need for forums like this, especially since the tools and knowledge are hardly new...just dismissed as fads...for the last few decades.

http://www.diabetes.org/research-an...ss-to-research/type-2-diabetes-remission.html
Over 7 years, 1.47 percent of the entire group had a partial remission, 0.14 percent had a complete remission, and 0.007 percent had a prolonged remission. Overall, 1.60 percent of the entire group (4.6 percent of those who had been diagnosed for less than 2 years) had some sort of remission. People who were older than 65 years of age, were African American, had been diagnosed for less than 2 years, had an A1C of less than 5.7 percent at the start of the study period, or were taking no diabetes medicines at the start of the study period were more likely to have a remission.
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I wonder what real choice you have if you want to find the way back to good health. It's so frustrating that the HCPs are mostly constrained by following the guidelines of the day in their respective professions. If you want to see what happens when they don't, you don't need to look much further than Gary Fettke, an Australian Orthopaedic surgeon who's been muzzled and told that even if what he claims turns out to be the truth (low carb, healthy fat, avoid fructose), he still wouldn't be able to talk about it, because it isn't his area of expertise. He is not allowed to give nutrition advice to his diabetic patients whose feet are crumbling away or suffering from other very serious complications of this disease. It makes for very interesting reading. I'm so looking forward to the day when I can accept the guidance of my HCPs without putting my long term quality of life at risk.
 
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