That is why I can't understand why people on here seem to use HBA1C as anything but a measure of how many carbs they are eating, which they could do by weighing them
This is what I am going by:
On average, normal HbA1c for non-diabetics is < 36 mmol/mol (5.5%). For people with diabetes, an ideal HbA1c level should be 48 mmol/mol (6.5%) or lower. A HbA1c measurement of between 36 and 48 mmol/mol means that the individual it at a very high risk of developing Type 2 diabetes, termed ‘pre-diabetes’.@ jimlahey pointed out that mine was too high and by some scales actually in the diabetic range, though I think in others (they do vary) just at the top of prediabetic. As I have said before I think the NHS sets the bar too high at 42 mmol/mmol which it calls "normal". Jim pointed out that many scales would call that prediabetic and some even diabetic. I should like to be safely within the normal range. No I did not suggest "tricked", just fooled, as in being foolish enough myself to take them at their word instead of looking up the scales myself and finding what was a sensible measure. Health services often set the bar too high to avoid having to treat as many people. I think the American scales are the worst for this. Jim also kindly pointed out the conversion charts between the old and the new numbering of HBA1C, and also how it converted into average blood sugar
https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-HbA1c.aspx
That's why i said " carbs cals", ie 333 calories from carbs at each meal (total 1000 calories from carbs a day.) 75 g carbs in the OGT is 300 cals, ie less than normal people eat at each mealthere are 4 calories per gram of carbs, so the daily amount of carbs, based on 1000 cals, is 250g A DAY.
I am basing my decision on all 3 outcomes of all 3 tests available to me, as they all have slightly different pros and cons. That's why I take FBGs every morning (but these are influenced by liver fat and sometimes by Dawn Phenomenon), plus OGT which I think is the most accurate measure of Beta Cell function available at home. Plus, what prompted me to re-start my diet, ie the HBA1C shock comment by @JimLahey, who pointed out that my HBA1C was much higher on the diabetic scale than I had previously realised - so I obviously needed to lose more weight because I had stopped before reaching my Personal Fat Threshold. Albeit without realising that at the time. I had not realised that my HBA1C put me in the diabetic range on at least one scale and firmly in the pre diabetic range in all the others I have seen. I trust the HBA1C itself but not the scale the NHS uses. However,it too, has it's drawbacks as it is in slow time and can't tell me for ages when to stop dieting. I need something more immediate. My own would not be distorted by low carbing as I eat around 55% carbs I think, though it's not something I look at often. For someone who was low carbing it would be difficult to tell how much of any improvement was caused by simply mechanical means ie less carbs input, as opposed to normal carbs being better processed by the beta cells. I would aim to get all 3 different tests into the normoglycaemic range before deciding whether or not the diet had worked. That may not be possible with HBA1C because of the period of time it covers (6weeks to 3 months) and the time it takes to get one in a pandemic.If you are basing your decision making process on HbA1c outcomes, why are you running repeated glucose tolerance tests? They are different tests, measure different things and use different units.
Why not pay for an HbA1c test from a private provider, as often as you like? There are several who offer the service in the UK at a very reasonable cost.
At least that way you wouldn’t be running repeated glucose tolerance tests that may be damaging your pancreas further.
ed. for typo
That's why i said " carbs cals", ie 333 calories from carbs at each meal (total 1000 calories from carbs a day.) 75 g carbs in the OGT is 300 cals, ie less than normal people eat at each meal
I see a mod edited your post after I had replied. My point stands, including the one about spikes.That's why i said " carbs cals", ie 333 calories from carbs at each meal (total 1000 calories from carbs a day.) 75 g carbs in the OGT is 300 cals, ie less than normal people eat at each meal
Not what I am doing, nor how I understand others. We are using it as a measure of how much glucose we have circulating and how much damage is likely to be occurring as a result. Simply counting carbs doesn’t do that. One person might eat 300 carbs a day and have the same hb1ac as me at 30 carbs a day.That is why I can't understand why people on here seem to use HBA1C as anything but a measure of how many carbs they are eating,
Can you point me toward a single anti weight loss person or where anyone expects it to works in days please?A lot of anti weight loss people seem to think if it doesn't work in days
"so would be interested if you can direct me to any that are lower and specifically any that diagnose sub 42 as diabetes. You’ve never actually said what the hb1ac level was you found unacceptable was, just under 42. Are you happy to share?"Not what I am doing, nor how I understand others. We are using it as a measure of how much glucose we have circulating and how much damage is likely to be occurring as a result. Simply counting carbs doesn’t do that. One person might eat 300 carbs a day and have the same hb1ac as me at 30 carbs a day.
Can you point me toward a single anti weight loss person or where anyone expects it to works in days please?
The U.K. and WHO use the same diagnostic levels and it appears Europe does too but I can’t find that for sure . USA use below 39 for normal and 48 for diabetes so a slightly wider prediabetic range. I’m struggling to find other reference ranges so would be interested if you can direct me to any that are lower and specifically any that diagnose sub 42 as diabetes. You’ve never actually said what the hb1ac level was you found unacceptable was, just under 42. Are you happy to share?
And whilst you quote 2015 bnf guidance there are increasing numbers of sources that advocate lower levels of daily carbs, for the general population, let alone type 2 carb intolerant people. This response doesn’t address my point that different times, locations and cultures will have different recommendations so my point remains “what is normal?” Perhaps the reason we have so much diabetes now is in part at least due to faulty recommendations in the last 50 yrs which coincidentally that same period diabetes has increased massively in. Ere is much official support for this view too.
Plus, what prompted me to re-start my diet, ie the HBA1C shock comment by @JimLahey, who pointed out that my HBA1C was much higher on the diabetic scale than I had previously realised -
Yes I could stop my 1000 cal diet at any time. But the risk would be grave. We have only around 4 years post diagnosis to have a reasonable chance of reversing our T2 with this diet. I have already lost one of my "nine lives" as it were, by doing the diet in 2017 but stopping before it was finished. There is such a short window of opportunity that it would be madness to give up before it was finished. I doubt if I'll ever get another chance. And I certainly absolutely dread the prospect of a lifetime of T2 that can no longer be reversed.You can stop your 1000 calorie diet at any time, if you wish.
There is no guarantee that your beta cells will ever be restored to normal function, especially if you stress them regularly with glucose tolerance tests.
Just because 'reversal' happened to a % of people in the controlled environment of a clinical study does not mean that it will happen to you, repeatedly, after recurring bouts of very low calorie eating - especially after you have added time, weight, blood glucose fluctuations, a continued carb intake, as well as the repeated stress of glucose tolerance tests since your first attempt to reverse your diabetes. You say you are still T2. So each of those stressors has an added impact on your pancreas, which is obviously struggling to cope with the amount of carbs you are currently eating.
From what I have seen when you post the results of your home glucose tolerance tests, the differences between test results are so small they are within the +/- tolerance of your meter. Spreading those tests out by months rather than weeks, or doing the test annually would place far less stress on your body.
The glucose tolerance test is intended to be used in specific medical need, and is no longer supported by the NHS as a diagnostic tool (except in during pregnancy). Repeated home tests, out of personal curiosity, would definitely not be supported by the NHS.
Ed to add the blue text.
This is making assumptions that I am not clear is applicable in all instances. Where is the 4 year cut off evidence?Yes I could stop my 1000 cal diet at any time. But the risk would be grave. We have only around 4 years post diagnosis to have a reasonable chance of reversing our T2 with this diet. I have already lost one of my "nine lives" as it were, by doing the diet in 2017 but stopping before it was finished. There is such a short window of opportunity that it would be madness to give up before it was finished. I doubt if I'll ever get another chance. And I certainly absolutely dread the prospect of a lifetime of T2 that can no longer be reversed.
I am dieting fairly gently so my weight loss will be slower than people who cut 500cal or more from their BMR (which is the calorie reduction most diets recommend). My FBGs are Ok, and have been for a while (though still not quite non diabetic, they are near enough). As to my OGT results they were terrible when I started for the second time - and in the full blown diabetic range. They are now at the bottom of the pre diabetic range, and have dropped a whole 1.1 in the last 2 and a half weeks! I am very pleased with this big drop in such a short time and believe tit means that I am getting there and that the diet is at last working for me. 1000 cals a day is an easy diet to do as it is not drastic at all. I shall continue until I have reached my Personal Fat Threshold, which I am guessing will be around the time my OGTs get down to about the middle of the non diabetic level.
Post edited by moderator to remove unsubstantiated accusations
Isn't this just a hypothesis (i.e. guess) by Professor Taylor which he uses to justify cherry picking his candidates for his study? As @Andydragon says, his own experiences disprove this 'fact'.We have only around 4 years post diagnosis to have a reasonable chance of reversing our T2 with this diet.
Good point but that's a different thread.The whole point of this thread is asking if low carb hasn't worked for some and the answer clearly is yes, some T2s it doesn't work for, for full reversal. But even if it doesn't resolve to non diabetic levels its impact as general anecdotally does seem to have strong evidence and I am sure medical studies too
Oops!Good point but that's a different thread.
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