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Has anyone ever done a DIY glucose tolerance test and is it possible to do so?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by gardengnome42, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Because it is clearly not a measure of how many carbs one is eating. It is an estimate of the average blood sugars over an 8-12 week period. Not a foolproof one, but the best we have. It would be more accurate to say that it is a measure of how the body is responding to carbs and anything else being consumed.
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    If you are basing your decision making process on HbA1c outcomes, why are you running repeated glucose tolerance tests? They are different tests, measure different things and use different units.

    Why not pay for an HbA1c test from a private provider, as often as you like? There are several who offer the service in the UK at a very reasonable cost.

    At least that way you wouldn’t be running repeated glucose tolerance tests that may be damaging your pancreas further.

    ed. for typo
     
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    #42 Brunneria, Apr 15, 2021 at 4:15 PM
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  3. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    That's why i said " carbs cals", ie 333 calories from carbs at each meal (total 1000 calories from carbs a day.) 75 g carbs in the OGT is 300 cals, ie less than normal people eat at each meal
     
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    #43 Tannith, Apr 15, 2021 at 5:57 PM
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  4. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    I am basing my decision on all 3 outcomes of all 3 tests available to me, as they all have slightly different pros and cons. That's why I take FBGs every morning (but these are influenced by liver fat and sometimes by Dawn Phenomenon), plus OGT which I think is the most accurate measure of Beta Cell function available at home. Plus, what prompted me to re-start my diet, ie the HBA1C shock comment by @JimLahey, who pointed out that my HBA1C was much higher on the diabetic scale than I had previously realised - so I obviously needed to lose more weight because I had stopped before reaching my Personal Fat Threshold. Albeit without realising that at the time. I had not realised that my HBA1C put me in the diabetic range on at least one scale and firmly in the pre diabetic range in all the others I have seen. I trust the HBA1C itself but not the scale the NHS uses. However,it too, has it's drawbacks as it is in slow time and can't tell me for ages when to stop dieting. I need something more immediate. My own would not be distorted by low carbing as I eat around 55% carbs I think, though it's not something I look at often. For someone who was low carbing it would be difficult to tell how much of any improvement was caused by simply mechanical means ie less carbs input, as opposed to normal carbs being better processed by the beta cells. I would aim to get all 3 different tests into the normoglycaemic range before deciding whether or not the diet had worked. That may not be possible with HBA1C because of the period of time it covers (6weeks to 3 months) and the time it takes to get one in a pandemic.
     
  5. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    But an awful lot more than the 5% (of 50% carbs) ‘free sugars’ (12.5g carb) recommended in the same link you posted above.
     
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  6. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    I see a mod edited your post after I had replied. My point stands, including the one about spikes.

    I find your posts and logic confused and confusing so will drop trying to help you understand.
     
  7. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Meanwhile, back on track;

    No, I haven't done an ogt test as, unless under medical supervision, I consider them to be dangerous to my remaining beta cells.
     
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  8. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Not what I am doing, nor how I understand others. We are using it as a measure of how much glucose we have circulating and how much damage is likely to be occurring as a result. Simply counting carbs doesn’t do that. One person might eat 300 carbs a day and have the same hb1ac as me at 30 carbs a day.
    Can you point me toward a single anti weight loss person or where anyone expects it to works in days please?

    The U.K. and WHO use the same diagnostic levels and it appears Europe does too but I can’t find that for sure . USA use below 39 for normal and 48 for diabetes so a slightly wider prediabetic range. I’m struggling to find other reference ranges so would be interested if you can direct me to any that are lower and specifically any that diagnose sub 42 as diabetes. You’ve never actually said what the hb1ac level was you found unacceptable was, just under 42. Are you happy to share?

    And whilst you quote 2015 bnf guidance there are increasing numbers of sources that advocate lower levels of daily carbs, for the general population, let alone type 2 carb intolerant people. This response doesn’t address my point that different times, locations and cultures will have different recommendations so my point remains “what is normal?” Perhaps the reason we have so much diabetes now is in part at least due to faulty recommendations in the last 50 yrs which coincidentally that same period diabetes has increased massively in. Ere is much official support for this view too.
     
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  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    @Tannith

    as has been pointed out to you on this thread and on others, Low Carbing does not distort HbA1c results.
    You seem to have a misunderstanding of what the test is, and how it works.
    Perhaps you are confused with the fact people are asked to eat 150g carbs per day for 3 days before a glucose tolerance test?
    - Which has nothing to do with the HbA1c.

    I repeat my comment that you do not need to be dependent on the NHS for HbA1c tests since you can get them privately, through the post, as often as you like. No need to wait months or more between NHS HbA1cs, and no need to venture further than the post box.

    If you want to find out if your HbA1c is dropping, then an HbA1c test will actually give you that information.
    Whereas your glucose tolerance tests will not.
     
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  10. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    "so would be interested if you can direct me to any that are lower and specifically any that diagnose sub 42 as diabetes. You’ve never actually said what the hb1ac level was you found unacceptable was, just under 42. Are you happy to share?"
    "For people without diabetes, the normal range for the hemoglobin A1c level is between 4% and 5.6%. Hemoglobin A1c levels between 5.7% and 6.4% mean you have a higher chance of getting diabetes. Levels of 6.5% or higher mean you have diabetes.

    https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/guide/glycated-hemoglobin-test-hba1c"
    I myself didn't find it unacceptable, hence I stopped the diet as I thought I was OK. It was @JimLahey on here who gave me the heads up & told me that it was not very good, and in the prediabetic range.You can look up his comment on here. I can't get hba1c done again now (pandemic) hence I use OGT, which in any case I find more reliable.
     
  11. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    @Jim Lahey your name is getting a lot of mentions in this thread. Care to comment? Unfortunately you were linked to incorrectly in other posts, so you may not be aware of this.

    this now locked thread gives the whole conversation on this subject between Tannith and Jim: bhttps://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/why-wont-the-nhs-tell-you-the-secret-to-treating-diabetes.178134/page-6# starting at post #102 (you may have to scroll up a bit on the page to find post #102.


    However, as I read it, Jim's comment was based on HbA1c results, whereas Tannith is basing her HbA1c on her fasting blood tests. Tannith, at that point your conversations with Jim your HbA1c was 39. Has that changed?

    Tannith, I think you may be equating fasting blood levels to HbA1c. The two are not the same thing.
     
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    #51 lucylocket61, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:25 AM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  12. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    Yes I could stop my 1000 cal diet at any time. But the risk would be grave. We have only around 4 years post diagnosis to have a reasonable chance of reversing our T2 with this diet. I have already lost one of my "nine lives" as it were, by doing the diet in 2017 but stopping before it was finished. There is such a short window of opportunity that it would be madness to give up before it was finished. I doubt if I'll ever get another chance. And I certainly absolutely dread the prospect of a lifetime of T2 that can no longer be reversed.
    I am dieting fairly gently so my weight loss will be slower than people who cut 500cal or more from their BMR (which is the calorie reduction most diets recommend). My FBGs are Ok, and have been for a while (though still not quite non diabetic, they are near enough). As to my OGT results they were terrible when I started for the second time - and in the full blown diabetic range. They are now at the bottom of the pre diabetic range, and have dropped a whole 1.1 in the last 2 and a half weeks! I am very pleased with this big drop in such a short time and believe tit means that I am getting there and that the diet is at last working for me. 1000 cals a day is an easy diet to do as it is not drastic at all. I shall continue until I have reached my Personal Fat Threshold, which I am guessing will be around the time my OGTs get down to about the middle of the non diabetic level.

    Post edited by moderator to remove unsubstantiated accusations
     
    #53 Tannith, Apr 16, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2021
  13. Andydragon

    Andydragon Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is making assumptions that I am not clear is applicable in all instances. Where is the 4 year cut off evidence?

    As I have already highlighted, I was diabetic T2 for over a decade and was able to reverse it seems without any reduction in food intake or significant restricting calories. Not saying there wasn't but in the order of 2000 to 2500, nowhere near 1000.

    1000 unsupervised a day is against pretty much all medical advice I have ever seen, and it's sustainability seems questionable to me. You say it's not drastic, but it really is, even going on BMR which unlikely anyone is lying on the sofa all day it is Beyond recommended levels for many people. I can't imagine any body height/age where < 1000 is okay
     
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    #54 Andydragon, Apr 16, 2021 at 11:14 AM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  14. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Isn't this just a hypothesis (i.e. guess) by Professor Taylor which he uses to justify cherry picking his candidates for his study? As @Andydragon says, his own experiences disprove this 'fact'.
     
  15. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Good point but that's a different thread.
     
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  16. Andydragon

    Andydragon Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oops!
    totally right, thanks for the catch!! I updated my post, which makes your reply out of date so compounded the issue probably.
     
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  17. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi everyone,

    This topic has wandered far from its original question, which was has anyone done a DIY GGT.

    We are reaching the point that the same two or three subjects, pushed by two or three posters, are spreading like an infection into thread after thread until multiple threads look and sound interchangeable. It is quite understandable why @Andydragon thought he was posting on another thread!

    So I am asking people to have the courtesy to check that their posts are relevant to the original post.
    If they wish to discuss another subject, they can choose an appropriate thread or start one on their subject of choice.
    If that subject is not directly relatable to diabetes, they can start the thread in the General Chat sub forum.

    Further off topic posts will be deleted.
     
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  18. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    No, I have never done an OGTT and never would. I don't see the sense in having needless carbs. I am happy to be guided by my meter and HbA1c.
     
  19. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    @Tannith this is the USA lowest level for prediabetes as I previously quoted = 39mmol. The U.K. and many other countries start this classification at 42mmol.

    more practically if you are using OGTT in lieu of hb1ac have you actually attempted to get an hb1ac from your surgery or simply assumed you cannot? I’ve had 3 since the pandemic began (DN nurse agreed to quarterly testing). NICE guidelines state you should have 6 monthly tests and an annual review at least.
     
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