Type 2 Have you reversed your T2?

[serenity648]

I don't think that's quite correct. Yes, 1/3 (maybe even a bit more than 1/3) of the "healthy" plate shown is starchy food. But if you take the "healthy" plate literally then 1/3 of your food intake by weight is supposed to be starch, another third mostly veg (with little starch, protein, or fat), 1/4 beans/legumes (and a tiny amount of fish/meat), and the rest dairy, and a tiny amount of chemically processed veg oil, then I suspect this adds up to the majority of your calories being from carbs.

Zoe Harcombe looked at the eatwell plate and calculated it has more 60% of daily calories coming from carbs. So for women, that would mean at least 300 g of carbs and for men 375 g.

good point. I hadnt factored those in. Thank you.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

https://choosemyplate-prod.azureedg.../MyPlateDailyChecklist_2000cals_Age14plus.pdf

this is the American version - recommending the equivalent of 6 slices of bread a day or 6 oz grains based on 2000 cas a day. Which equates to around 175g of carbs for women and 200g carbs for men. The portion sizes are seen when you scroll down to the daily checklist.

So I took the recommendations by the USDA (straight from your link) of how much to eat of what for a 2,000 calorie a day diet, ran it through http://www.calorieking.com/ and this is what I got:

 

[Mark_1]

I spoke to a NHS diabetes dietitian a few weeks ago who told me that the guidelines they are issued are, that you should aiming for around 130g, but no more, carbs a day for a man. This was based on the eat well plate. Although she also said that in her own opinion but not the NHS less than this would be better.

 

[Daphne917]

So how did you do it?
And Mbaker, what proportion of your weight at the time was the 10kg you lost?
I am trying a 900, (sometimes to 1000) cal version of ND. As Mbaker suggested on another thread I am now including a 20min walk most days. I am on day 18. I am hoping this will reverse my preDiabetes. As opposed to "treat"it by keeping the sugars down on a temporary basis with metformin or low carb diet (some people combine the two). I understand both bring sugars down but sugars go straight back up as soon as you stop either metformin or low carbing.

@Tannith even before diagnosis I never ate a lot of sugary things such as sweets, biscuits and chocolate however I did eat low fat, a lot of fruit and 'brown' everything such as bread, pasta and rice. It wasn't until I started researching that I realised that what I considered to be a healthy diet was, in fact, causing my BS to rise so I got myself a meter and began testing. In addition on diagnosis my hba1c was 48 but 6 weeks of statins increased it to 54 - after I stopped taking them my BS reduced to an hba1c in the 30s.

 

[hooha]

Have you reversed your T2? If so please share how you did it.

I did the Newcastle Diet re Prof Roy Taylor. Googled Guardian newspaper uk, Richard Doughty type 2 reversed and there , with a little help from the video posted by Carlos Cervantes was my starting point. Then on Butter makes your Pants Fall Off I found , under ' U turn type 2 diabetes ' seveal good links to the Newcastle lectures. Later I discovered LCHF and watched the youtube presentation by dr Troy Stapleton, then on to Low Carb in 60 seconds...etc

 

[hooha]

I have no idea if I have reversed my T2 or not. I haven't had an HbA1c in the diabetic range since April 2014 (twice yearly tests). All my feet and eye checks are normal, my cholesterol and blood pressure are normal, my other blood markers are normal, my ALT and Gamma GT are excellent, my BMI is 21 and my waist to height ratio is perfect. My finger pricks are almost all in the non-diabetic range apart from when I've experimented with too many additional carbs - and there is the rub.

You will have to define the word "reversed" before I can answer properly.

Very low carb, above moderate protein, rest fats. Not a great deal of exercise apart from dog walks. I have been diet only since the start.

Hi Bluetit your story sounds just like mine. The problem is the experimentation . In my case after too many drinks I might raid the fridge and scoff the kids sweets and biscuits...Otherwise no problem. Oh --sometimes high morning readings are a puzzle. Dawn Phenomenon ?

 

[hooha]

@jlm I'm am confused as you about opinions on cholesterol levels!
However as far as your blood sugar levels are concerned, can I ask why you've decided to reintroduce chick peas, quinoa and rice, aren't these all high carbohydrate foods? This may account for your higher blood sugars plus of course you've stopped your Gliclazide.
Since I have adopted a low carbohydrate diet in May I've lost 20kg, I'm also on Metformin and I believe that that helps too. Meat, eggs, cheese and dairy are all a large part of my low carb diet. I wonder why you've given up this group of foods?

Hi Rachox - I believe chick peas have a very low glycaemic load.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Bluetit your story sounds just like mine. The problem is the experimentation . In my case after too many drinks I might raid the fridge and scoff the kids sweets and biscuits...Otherwise no problem. Oh --sometimes high morning readings are a puzzle. Dawn Phenomenon ?

High morning readings that happen "sometimes" are most likely the after effect of something you ate the previous day. People that suffer with DP see it every day, not "sometimes". Personally, I've never suffered with it to any great degree, even straight after diagnosis. However, very occasionally I may see a low 6 in the morning, and I believe that is too much protein at my evening meal the night before.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Rachox - I believe chick peas have a very low glycaemic load.

They are about 16% carbohydrate, which will all convert to glucose, whatever the GI. It depends how many you have, of course.

 

[Heretic1]

Hi Rachox - I believe chick peas have a very low glycaemic load.

One of my 'healthy swaps' was that me and the wife now 'snack on Cucumber and Carrot Batons ... but with hummus (which is chickpea based), of all differing flavours - much better than crisps! ... and sooooooo tasty!

I am sure there are those that will scream that hummus and Carrots are voodoo food ...... but it works for me! In fact sat here now with Lemon and Corriander hummus, Sweet Chiili hummus etc mmmmmm .... and of course a G&T - watching the beautiful sunset!

 

[hooha]

High morning readings that happen "sometimes" are most likely the after effect of something you ate the previous day. People that suffer with DP see it every day, not "sometimes". Personally, I've never suffered with it to any great degree, even straight after diagnosis. However, very occasionally I may see a low 6 in the morning, and I believe that is too much protein at my evening meal the night before.

Something I ate the night or day before ? Wish I knew .
I have been busy busy busy trying to research my type 2 condition. This whole business of insulin resistance is driving me nuts trying to understand it. Then the info on the web can sometimes be very frustrating. Trying to do a simple experiment :

e.g trying to find the calories and carbs in an egg custard tart [ yum yum ] when the various sites quote calories from 120 up to 489. per '' serving '' without specifying how many grams of tart. And now that I have started to test more frequently [ trying to really get to grips with it all ]

I find going to bed after a day of low carb and normal eating, I have a level of say 86 or 90 but in the morning before eating it might be 96 or 100 or once or twice 105.... I have decided this is the dawn phenomenon dumping sugar out into the blood... I came to that conclusion because the blood levels don’t seem to have much relation to what I have been eating. I did think that maybe I was getting a delayed reaction, but surely not 48 hours later ?

Something I came across - although beer has carbs , it is possible that the alcohol content keeps the liver busy metabolising it and thus the liver does not produce so much blood glucose during the night, thus a low morning reading. On the other hand , no booze, early night, might have a bad dream or some other stress, resulting in higher levels than expected ?

Interesting that you say DP usually happens often rather than ‘ sometimes ‘ .
Believe me it's annoying and when I started I was so happy to have a clear plan to follow...ie The Newcastle Diet re Prof Roy Taylor etc.
Now trying to fine -tune things, confusion is creeping in. I suspect this is when some people crash or get the ' burnout ' problem , but I will not surrender. Thanks be for this site, and knowledgable people , and the internet and blood monitors and modern technology . Just imagine where I’d be if I’d lived 100 years ago, or even if I’d been diagnosed some 15 or 20 years ago with unhelpful drs. We can’t all be self -helpers like Dr Bernstein . I’d have been sunk without my trusty PC and access to the web.

 

[hooha]

They are about 16% carbohydrate, which will all convert to glucose, whatever the GI. It depends how many you have, of course.

I found a site called diet and fitness today and they quote the glycaemic load of chickpeas as very low, around 2 to 6 . I think the carbs converting to glucose doesn't matter as long as it happens slowly ? I try to eat low carb less than 100 gram a day , sometimes only 30 grams but so far it is only by cutting out obvious carbs like the fast starches. I eat lots of vegetables . And of course hommos, chick peas, beans, even yogurt with fairly low sugar. [ I cant find any locally which has less than 6.4 g of carbs per 100 g of yogurt.] Then oatmeal , flax seeds ,banana, cashew nuts, all push the carbs up.

 

[hooha]

One of my 'healthy swaps' was that me and the wife now 'snack on Cucumber and Carrot Batons ... but with hummus (which is chickpea based), of all differing flavours - much better than crisps! ... and sooooooo tasty!

I am sure there are those that will scream that hummus and Carrots are voodoo food ...... but it works for me! In fact sat here now with Lemon and Corriander hummus, Sweet Chiili hummus etc mmmmmm .... and of course a G&T - watching the beautiful sunset!

Hi - sunset ? You must be somewhere in the Med ? Perhaps Spain or Greece or points East... It's dark where I am and it is raining !

 

[Mbaker]

So how did you do it?
And Mbaker, what proportion of your weight at the time was the 10kg you lost?
I am trying a 900, (sometimes to 1000) cal version of ND. As Mbaker suggested on another thread I am now including a 20min walk most days. I am on day 18. I am hoping this will reverse my preDiabetes. As opposed to "treat"it by keeping the sugars down on a temporary basis with metformin or low carb diet (some people combine the two). I understand both bring sugars down but sugars go straight back up as soon as you stop either metformin or low carbing.

Hi @Tannith my diagnosis weight was 98 kgs, so not that much weight loss compared to others. My results might be skewed because after an intense cycle of 40 minutes I would do an immediate 3 set multiple exercise weights set, so I might of built some muscle thereby increasing my weight (I was doing the cycling and weights twice a day). When I went full LCHF I lost a further 2 kgs, then went heavier on the weights and added 4 Kg's.

I found that dropping Metformin did not raise my blood sugars, but I think I was quite "reversed" when I began to reduce the dose and eventually just stopped (this was very liberating as it proved self regulation, the timing is in my signature); I am aware of a person who was on my DESMOND course who tried coming off Metformin with no other lifestyle changes and had to go back on which is not a surprise. By definition if low carbing is stopped, high carb must be what is in operation, which is likely to raise blood sugar.

I still have work to do as my body fat is between 13.5 and 15% depending on which of my 3 scales are accurate (I want 9% for vanity reasons second and first to have a bigger buffer between wellness and diabetes) and my visceral fat is between 7.5 and 8%, which is in the normal range (<12) but I want to achieve want 5%. Glad to hear you have taken up walking as this is sustainable and beneficial to overall health. I am doing on top of my physical regime 30 days of 100 push ups which have to be completed in a 10 minute window, I am 3 days in. I think you will do very well with your goals.

 

[Tannith]

Hi @Tannith my diagnosis weight was 98 kgs, so not that much weight loss compared to others. My results might be skewed because after an intense cycle of 40 minutes I would do an immediate 3 set multiple exercise weights set, so I might of built some muscle thereby increasing my weight (I was doing the cycling and weights twice a day). When I went full LCHF I lost a further 2 kgs, then went heavier on the weights and added 4 Kg's.

I found that dropping Metformin did not raise my blood sugars, but I think I was quite "reversed" when I began to reduce the dose and eventually just stopped (this was very liberating as it proved self regulation, the timing is in my signature); I am aware of a person who was on my DESMOND course who tried coming off Metformin with no other lifestyle changes and had to go back on which is not a surprise. By definition if low carbing is stopped, high carb must be what is in operation, which is likely to raise blood sugar.

I still have work to do as my body fat is between 13.5 and 15% depending on which of my 3 scales are accurate (I want 9% for vanity reasons second and first to have a bigger buffer between wellness and diabetes) and my visceral fat is between 7.5 and 8%, which is in the normal range (<12) but I want to achieve want 5%. Glad to hear you have taken up walking as this is sustainable and beneficial to overall health. I am doing on top of my physical regime 30 days of 100 push ups which have to be completed in a 10 minute window, I am 3 days in. I think you will do very well with your goals.

Thank you Mbaker. How long did you do Newcastle for? I am impressed with all your exercise but its not for me I'm afraid - I'm too old!

 

[Mbaker]

Thank you Mbaker. How long did you do Newcastle for? I am impressed with all your exercise but its not for me I'm afraid - I'm too old!

I haven't done the Newcastle Diet, this is what I would have done had I not been ignorant of its existence. It is scandal that the options are not routinely provided (and whilst I am at it the better general guidelines are not provided, I did not know that drinking a litre of Delmonte orange juice a day, loads of grapes a banana and home made unsweetened white flour pancakes, followed at lunch by home made soda bread and a typical home made meal with either pasta, rice of potatoes was too much carbohydrate). I think Type 2's should be offered the following ideally under guidance:

1. LCHF, either via:
   1. Meat / Fish / Vegetables etc
   2. Vegan
   3. Vegetarian
2. 1 above with exercise if possible
3. 1 and 2 with Intermittent Fasting
4. Newcastle Diet
   1. Followed by 1, 2 or 3 above
5. Metformin
6. Metformin and Sulphonylureas
7. Insulin

I believe that LCHF and the Newcastle Diet should be offered at the same level, but from 5 to 7 should be utilised in that order if the other choices do not work (perhaps in the minority or severely diabetic / insulin resistant). I believe options 1 to 4 perhaps in combinations will work for circa 80% of Type 2's.

It is not necessary to do so much exercise for Type 2 reversal / management, exercise provides an additional angle for general health and additional glucose uptake by muscles without an insulin response. You are never too old for exercise, but this should be undertaken under medical advice and maybe a baseline examination. However a walk after a meal will help diabetics. I often watch My 600 lb Life (as I eventually want to assist my wife in her health care business, so I want to understand the phycology of addiction); some of these bed ridden people use light dumb bells to improve muscle mass.

 

[Heretic1]

Hi - sunset ? You must be somewhere in the Med ? Perhaps Spain or Greece or points East... It's dark where I am and it is raining !

Nope @hooha ...... The green and pleasant land that is North Derbyshire!

Doing exactly the same again this evening, but no G&T this time ..... A nice glass of Merot instead,

 

[S0RTED]

I 'reversed' my T2 and lost over 5 stone by eating under 50g's of net carbs per day for 6 months and then reducing this to Ketogenic levels of under 20g carbs per day. My daily eating regime is definitely vlchf.

I'm now still losing around 0.5- 1 pound a week but every few weeks I'll have a treat day where I'll allow myself Fish and chips or similar as I've found that this helps reset my metabolism and break the weight stalls. Within a day or so of these treats I'm always back in ketosis. I guess I'm now what they call fat adapted.