HCLF for T2D

[Lotties]

This guy advocates HCLF for reversal of T2D.

No backup of science but recommends avoiding processed food which I agree with. Otherwise not so much. I spent 3 years eating this way but still have IR and poor metabolic response to carbs along with deranged liver enzymes in tests (ALT & AST) Raw fruit and veg(form of HCLF) did get rid of my thrush symptoms within 2 weeks and keep my weight stable (but no loss). It was hard work to get 50g protein for me, and calcium. Hard to avoid seed oils if not strict.
High fat AND High Carb together are a definitive problem but I think the are merits to both HCLF & LCHF diets. LCHF seems to suit my body best at the moment.
Is anyone getting good results with HCLF as a pre-diabetic or worse?

 

[Debandez]

This guy advocates HCLF for reversal of T2D.

No backup of science but recommends avoiding processed food which I agree with. Otherwise not so much. I spent 3 years eating this way but still have IR and poor metabolic response to carbs along with deranged liver enzymes in tests (ALT & AST) Raw fruit and veg(form of HCLF) did get rid of my thrush symptoms within 2 weeks and keep my weight stable (but no loss). It was hard work to get 50g protein for me, and calcium. Hard to avoid seed oils if not strict.
High fat AND High Carb together are a definitive problem but I think the are merits to both HCLF & LCHF diets. LCHF seems to suit my body best at the moment.
Is anyone getting good results with HCLF as a pre-diabetic or worse?

I'm a type 2. All I know is that eating HCLF got me into this boat. And LCHF got me out. Officially in remission. When I was 1st diagnosed in December 17 I was encouraged to test with a blood glucose monitor to see which foods suited me. I spiked with high carb foods, bread, potatoes pasta rice cereals, and fruit especially bananas and grapes. It's the spikes that cause the complications so I immediately changed my way of eating and adapted accordingly. so for me it's a no.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's just the usual vegan agenda "meat, fish, eggs and dairy induce insulin resistance" which as we all know is simply wrong.

 

[Lotties]

It's just the usual vegan agenda "meat, fish, eggs and dairy induce insulin resistance" which as we all know is simply wrong.

Really concerned at the comments where people are jumping on it as their salvation, generally without their own research but hey ho, been there (science-based only now); I hope it works for them.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

Perhaps if people who have type 2 diabetes would all have a BG meter then they would know how food spikes their BG or not.
For me beans, grains and much of what is being encouraged in a vegan diet is deadly.
The BG meter tells me a prime rib steak or a piece of cheese hardly moves my BG
Respect to those on this forum who control their BG with a vegetarian diet. But it doesn’t work for me.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Low carb, high fat and plenty of meat works for me.

 

[Listlad]

Same here. A low fat and higher carb diet was what I used to eat. It may have been my downfall, maybe not, but it certainly didn’t reverse my diabetic symptoms, lower carb higher fat has though.

 

[Veryanxious]

I did low carb high fat for an year. It did control my BS fine, quite stable actually. I am now trying low fat/zero fat and high carb. I would still avoid flours, rice and potatoes.
I am trying it because lchf didn't reverse my diabetes/IR it just made me asymptomatic. I would eat carb and my sugars would spike again.
There are two contradictory theories on internet. Low carb group says its insulin spikes that cause insulin resistance and high carb group says it is high fat that blocks glucose uptake. I believe both are true. But it is basically calorie restriction and weight maintenance that helps people maintain their a1c on wither diets.
Fat is neutral for blood glucose so one could never know if they are still insulin resistant until they eat carbs again.
I believe one should experiment what is good for their body and how they react on different diets.

 

[Resurgam]

Fat is an essential nutrient - you could make yourself very ill if you avoid all fat. The brain and nervous system are constructed from and protected by fats - the white tissue of the brain is basically shaped cholesterol.
Eating low fat meats was known to cause problems - it was called rabbit disease or caribou illness as eating only the meat of those animals is not consistent with good health.

 

[Quinn1066]

Indeed fat is an essential nutrient, and the OP is right there are two schools of thought. The low fat, higher carb diets don't advocate avoiding all fat, just keeping it to 10% of dietary intake. However I think a sensible way of doing lower fat, but also low GI can work for many people. on good days I can get down to 30 grams of fat and this is still consuming eggs, reduced fat milk in half cup increments a day and low fat cheese. Basically I think the most sensible approach is to test food, eat to your meter, and limit the spikes. I have peanut butter with my porridge and that doesn't spike me. I have cheese with tortillas or ezekiel bread and those don't spike me. It's really dependent on the individual.

 

[Resurgam]

Very much dependent on the individual - I can only manage a couple of days eating 50 gm of carbs rather than less than 40 before I see my weight increase. Yes it shows that I can deal with more carbs - but not in a good way.
If I eat fatty meat, roast veges, fried foods, I either remain the same or lose a little weight or volume.

 

[TriciaWs]

I did very low fat diets in the past, once for nearly 18 months. I lost weight but ended up with gallstones and an inflamed gallbladder.
I started eating some more fat again after the operation but struggled with fats for a long time so not much, yet the weight piled back on.
And I got T2 diabetes.
I read the research, I bought a meter, then tested every meal at first, and saw for myself how much carbs I could eat - my blood test results showed that the robust research on low carb/higher (not high) fat worked.
My triglycerides fell, my HDL and total cholesterol are fine, my fatty liver resolved.
I eat more chicken, eggs and fish then I used to, and more green veg, but fewer pulses because of their carb content. I tried eating vegan for a couple of days when a vegan friend stayed with me not long after I went low carb but my blood sugars were creeping up.

Not everyone gets into full remission, and for some it takes longer. The evidence so far shows the earlier one goes low carb after diagnosis the better the prognosis.
I can eat a few more carbs now, after being very strict for the first year after getting into the normal blood range, but do not want to go back to my old style of eating.

 

[Veryanxious]

It's just the usual vegan agenda "meat, fish, eggs and dairy induce insulin resistance" which as we all know is simply wrong.

No, it is not that simple. If it were low carb/keto/carnivore should have cured that insulin resistance and type 2 by now and people should be able to tolerate carbs like they used before. I can't comment much on vegan agenda but this type of mentality that only low carb can reverse diabetes or only carb can reduce diabetes is doing more harm then good.

 

[Veryanxious]

Indeed fat is an essential nutrient, and the OP is right there are two schools of thought. The low fat, higher carb diets don't advocate avoiding all fat, just keeping it to 10% of dietary intake. However I think a sensible way of doing lower fat, but also low GI can work for many people. on good days I can get down to 30 grams of fat and this is still consuming eggs, reduced fat milk in half cup increments a day and low fat cheese. Basically I think the most sensible approach is to test food, eat to your meter, and limit the spikes. I have peanut butter with my porridge and that doesn't spike me. I have cheese with tortillas or ezekiel bread and those don't spike me. It's really dependent on the individual.

No fat means, no added fat. I eat all type of seeds and nuts.

 

[bulkbiker]

If it were low carb/keto/carnivore should have cured that insulin resistance and type 2 by now and people should be able to tolerate carbs like they used before.

Who says that they could "tolerate" carbs before... if that's what made them sick in the first place..?

 

[Brunneria]

@Veryanxious

please clarify something for me.
You are posting on this thread as though you have full blown diabetes and full blown insulin resistance. The implication being that you have type 2 diabetes. Yet your profile states that you do not have diabetes.

Could you please confirm what your current diagnosis is?

The reason I am asking is that people without diabetes, and people with pre-diabetes will have very different experiences of a particular way of eating compared with those who have the levels of insulin resistance that causes type 2 diabetes. So it is very helpful if you make your own status extremely clear - to avoid people assuming that what may work for a non diabetic will automatically work for a full blown T2.

 

[HSSS]

No, it is not that simple. If it were low carb/keto/carnivore should have cured that insulin resistance and type 2 by now and people should be able to tolerate carbs like they used before. I can't comment much on vegan agenda but this type of mentality that only low carb can reverse diabetes or only carb can reduce diabetes is doing more harm then good.

lchf didn't reverse my diabetes/IR it just made me asymptomatic. I would eat carb and my sugars would spike again.

To my knowledge low carb is advocated as management not cure of type 2. Whatever made us insulin resistant initially, ultimately to the extent of diagnosis of type2, is likely still present in the background. Maybe by reintroducing carbs we reinitiate that cycle of building IR to diabetic levels despite having reduced it by low carb previously. Hence it’s management for life to some extent or until an actual “cure” of the fundamental cause is found.

Again to my knowledge if maintaining a low carb way of eating then suddenly ingesting carbs will result in a spike. A physiological insulin resistance. This is why for a glucose tolerance test we are told to carb up before hand to test underlying resistance not induced. Also they may still have some IR despite the low carb diet therefore a spike (as opposed to a normal rise every human would see) in response to carbs would be expected

 

[HSSS]

but this type of mentality that only low carb can reverse diabetes or only carb can reduce diabetes is doing more harm then good.

What harm is that please?

And where has it been said it is the only way to manage (not cure as this can’t be done or claimed imo) type 2 diabetes? I agree it is often said to be the most effective or most preferable or easiest but those are different claims

 

[Listlad]

To my knowledge low carb is advocated as management not cure of type 2. Whatever made us insulin resistant initially, ultimately to the extent of diagnosis of type2, is likely still present in the background. Maybe by reintroducing carbs we reinitiate that cycle of building IR to diabetic levels despite having reduced it by low carb previously. Hence it’s management for life to some extent or until an actual “cure” of the fundamental cause is found.

Again to my knowledge if maintaining a low carb way of eating then suddenly ingesting carbs will result in a spike. A physiological insulin resistance. This is why for a glucose tolerance test we are told to carb up before hand to test underlying resistance not induced. Also they may still have some IR despite the low carb diet therefore a spike (as opposed to a normal rise every human would see) in response to carbs would be expected

And low carb could also be used for prevention too.

 

[Veryanxious]

@Veryanxious

please clarify something for me.
You are posting on this thread as though you have full blown diabetes and full blown insulin resistance. The implication being that you have type 2 diabetes. Yet your profile states that you do not have diabetes.

Could you please confirm what your current diagnosis is?

The reason I am asking is that people without diabetes, and people with pre-diabetes will have very different experiences of a particular way of eating compared with those who have the levels of insulin resistance that causes type 2 diabetes. So it is very helpful if you make your own status extremely clear - to avoid people assuming that what may work for a non diabetic will automatically work for a full blown T2.

I have insulin resistance along with low insulin as per my doctor. I don't have diabetes as such because my one time a1c was 6.0% after low carb it never above that. So no official type 2 diabetes. And when i eat carbs i would spike till 160, with fruits i would spike to 180. That is type 2.