Heart surgeon admits he was wrong

[IanD]

A heart surgeon with a dodgy past now selling books......whatever next :shock:

Keep your money in your pockets people

When the substance of an argument cannot be challenged, "we" have to discredit the person promoting the argument. It's a well established method called "ad hominem."

We all "know" that Atkins died of a heart attack, & was morbidly obese when he died. The truth doesn't matter.

We could, of course, follow a Dr who contributes to this forum, promotes low carb for diabetics, & gives away his book. I mean, of course, Dr Briffa.

 

[noblehead]

We all "know" that Atkins died of a heart attack, & was morbidly obese when he died. The truth doesn't matter.

A leaked report did indeed show he was morbidly obese and had heart disease, he admitted to having a heart attack in 2002 when interviewed on tv some time before his death, had Mrs Atkins not threatened to sue the City of New York if they released the cause of of her husbands death then we would all know the truth.......did she and the Atkins Foundation have something to hide?........make your own minds up.

I don't know much about Briffa or his like but if you want to believe and follow their example with regards to cardio health that's fine, me personally I'll stick with what I know works for me and follow the advice of the Cardiologists I spoke with last year and that of the worlds leading experts on Cardiovascular health.

 

[IanD]

We all "know" that Atkins died of a heart attack, & was morbidly obese when he died. The truth doesn't matter.

A leaked report did indeed show he was morbidly obese and had heart disease, he admitted to having a heart attack in 2002 when interviewed on tv some time before his death, had Mrs Atkins not threatened to sue the City of New York if they released the cause of of her husbands death then we would all know the truth.......did she and the Atkins Foundation have something to hide?........make your own minds up.

I don't know much about Briffa or his like but if you want to believe and follow their example with regards to cardio health that's fine, me personally I'll stick with what I know works for me and follow the advice of the Cardiologists I spoke with last year and that of the worlds leading experts on Cardiovascular health.

The Truth About Atkins' Death

Cardiomyopathy
In 2000, Dr. Atkins developed cardiomyopathy, an incurable heart condition which has quite a few different causes. His was thought to be from a viral illness, and his physician stated at the time that there was no evidence that his diet contributed to the condition. His coronary arteries were reported to have been checked at that time and found to be free of blockages.

Cardiomyopathy makes it more likely that a person will have a cardiac arrest (heart stopping), which happened to him two years later. Again, the cardiac arrest was not thought to be diet related. His cardiologist stated that (other than the cardiomyopathy), Atkins had "an extraordinarily healthy cardiovascular system". News report about that incident.

Was Atkins Overweight?
William Leith, an writer who interviewed him around the time of his cardiac arrest stated that "he looks to be just under 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs – not skinny, not thin, but definitely not fat." A report from Atkins Nutritionals states that he played tennis competitively and that his weight was frequently checked, and in the years before his death was below 195, and six feet tall. And a medical report at the time of his admission to the hospital, which was later made public by his widow, states that he was 195 lbs on admission to the hospital.

Atkins' Death
On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His body deteriorated rapidly and he suffered massive organ failure. During this time, his body apparently retained an enormous amount of fluid, and his weight at death was recorded at 258 pounds. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma".

 

[phoenix]

When the substance of an argument cannot be challenged, "we" have to discredit the person promoting the argument. It's a well established method called "ad hominem."

if the title of the post says 'Heart surgeon'. This suggests some authority from the title/role.
There are others that do this, one of whom has been mentioned earlier on this thread that make claim to academic degrees which aren't quite what they imply (not Dr Briffa!) . This in my opinion makes me question their credibility, especially when they have a website with various expensive memberships (oh dear I wasn't going to get into a discussion)

As to what he says some of it wouldn't be argued against by mainstream academics, some would.

No doubt that most of them (and I) would agree that eating lots of high sugar/fat ultra processed foods are bad for you
(but do you remember anyone telling you that they were good for you?) In fact most of the saturated fat consumed in the UK comes from ultra processed food. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3397700/

Omega 3/6 balance some papers that would agree with him/others that suggest that a reasonable intake of omega 3 is more important than the balance .
ie the imperative from mainstream advice to eat oily fish twice a week.

Its the jump and the leap to saturated Fat and cholesterol are good for you .
(and personally I think there is often a second jump in peoples minds that if it's 'good' it therefore doesn't matter how much they eat.

Science moves on and so (hopefully) does advice from mainstream sources but there is still evidence that patterns of eating that include high amounts of sat far are associated with higher levels of heart disease.
A recent study (amongst the many) suggested that plasma concentrations of saturated fatty acids are associated with increased risk of CHD and that concentrations of omega-6 poly-unsaturated fatty acids are associated with decreased risk of CHD. This same study suggested , along with others, that different fatty acids within fatty acid families may play a role in increasing or decreasing risks (ie some types of the different fats may be good some types bad)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3389034/



Sid linked to the whole Earth Source.
Here's another link to the same blog
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.fr/20 ... .html#more
A piece on High-Fat Dairy, Obesity, Metabolic Health and Cardiovascular Disease
This is a piece of research that looked at fat from a specific source.
In some points it would support Lundell but there are caveats and Guyanet who co-authored the article also says what it doesn't mean.

 

[noblehead]

We all "know" that Atkins died of a heart attack, & was morbidly obese when he died. The truth doesn't matter.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/ ... 32133.html



Weight loss guru Dr Robert Atkins.

Related:
Atkins' widow threatens to sue over leak
Dieting: Your say


Robert Atkins spent his life telling people they could eat fat and stay slim. But according to his medical records, the man behind the Atkins diet was obese at the time of his death.

The medical records, leaked to the media yesterday, also showed that Dr Atkins had heart disease and hypertension, conditions that have been linked to high-fat diets.

At first blush, the news has the potential to devastate the estimated 30 million followers of the counter-intuitive Atkins diet, which encourages people to eat a diet high in protein (such as red meat) but low in carbohydrates (cereals, pasta and rice).

But Dr Atkins's medical report was released by an organisation that has long campaigned against his diet. It opposes consumption of meat and promotes a vegan diet as a way of preventing cancer.

The medical report, leaked to The Wall Street Journal, shows that Dr Atkins, at 1.83 metres, weighed 116 kilograms last year. This would have given him a score of 35 under the body mass index calculation, used across the world to define whether a person is of healthy weight or not. Under the BMI, a score of 25 defines one as overweight. Over 30 and you are obese.

But the Atkins company said yesterday that 27 of those kilograms were added to Dr Atkins's frame in hospital after his major organs had failed, leaving his body "grossly bloated and distorted" by fluid.

It said no autopsy was done on Dr Atkins's body, so his heart and arteries were not examined, partly because his widow, Veronica Atkins, would not allow it.

The medical report leaked to the Journal was based only on an "external examination" of his body by the New York City chief medical examiner's office.

Dr Atkins died last year, aged 72, after slipping on an icy footpath in Manhattan. His medical report lists the cause of death as head injury.

Dr Atkins, a cardiologist, said in a TV interview three months before he died that he had a heart attack in 2002 and that he believed his heart disease was caused by a virus.

The medical examiner's office said this week that Dr Atkins's medical report was "sent in error" to Richard Fleming, a member of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which runs an anti-Atkins website.

Dr Fleming last year released the diet book Stop Inflammation Now!, which promotes a diet that is all fruit, vegetables and whole grains.

The Atkins company deplored the leaking of Dr Atkins's medical records to "a known group of vegan and animal rights extremists".

Neither Dr Fleming nor the group he represents answered calls.

The Atkins diet has long been attacked by medical professionals, who say the excessive consumption of fat and meat is a short route to heart disease. Others say that weight loss is the best protection against heart disease.

The Atkins diet book has sold 15 million copies in the US. In a statement released this week, Mrs Atkins said: "I have been assured by my husband's physicians that my husband's problems late in life were completely unrelated to his diet."

 

[borofergie]

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk ... esity.html

You obviously haven't read much Guyenet. He is completely in favour of low-carbing for the population in general and especially for diabetics:

When glucose is poison, it's better to eat fat.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk ... -diet.html

 

[borofergie]

Saying that "because Robert Atkins (maybe) died of a heart attack, you shouldn't eat a low-carb diet" is just about the same as saying "don't be nice to people, in case you get crucified like Jesus".

Ad hominem indeed.

 

[borofergie]

Dr Atkins died last year, aged 72, after slipping on an icy footpath in Manhattan. His medical report lists the cause of death as head injury.

Dr Atkins, a cardiologist, said in a TV interview three months before he died that he had a heart attack in 2002 and that he believed his heart disease was caused by a virus.

+1

 

[noblehead]

Saying that "because Robert Atkins (maybe) died of a heart attack, you shouldn't eat a low-carb diet" is just about the same as saying "don't be nice to people, in case you get crucified like Jesus".

Ad hominem indeed.

Yes anyone can die of a heart attack, just the secrecy surrounding his death and why they didn't want his medical reports released doesn't fill you with confidence, it might have been dear old Atkins wasn't following his own diet in the later years of his life.........who knows!

 

[borofergie]

So in the absence of any credible scientific evidence against the Atkins diet, we're reduced to touting conspiracy theories.

Stinks of a lost argument to me.

 

[noblehead]

So in the absence of any credible scientific evidence against the Atkins diet, we're reduced to touting conspiracy theories.

Stinks of a lost argument to me.

Each to their own Stephen, as we have said many times on the forum for a number of years now......''stick with what best works for you''.......if this means following diet guru's and buying their books then so be it!

 

[borofergie]

Science moves on and so (hopefully) does advice from mainstream sources but there is still evidence that patterns of eating that include high amounts of sat far are associated with higher levels of heart disease.
A recent study (amongst the many) suggested that plasma concentrations of saturated fatty acids are associated with increased risk of CHD and that concentrations of omega-6 poly-unsaturated fatty acids are associated with decreased risk of CHD. This same study suggested , along with others, that different fatty acids within fatty acid families may play a role in increasing or decreasing risks (ie some types of the different fats may be good some types bad)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3389034/

None of which is in the context of a low-carbohydrate diet. You simply cannot extroplate results from people eating a "high-carb" diet to those of us eating a low-carb diet.

High-carb + high fat is a recipe for CVD. Show me some evidence that Low-carb + high-fat does the same thing.

 

[borofergie]

So in the absence of any credible scientific evidence against the Atkins diet, we're reduced to touting conspiracy theories.

Stinks of a lost argument to me.

Each to their own Stephen, as we have said many times on the forum for a number of years now......''stick with what best works for you''.......if this means following diet guru's and buying their books then so be it!

I have never attacked anyone's diet. I would certainly never attack someone on the basis of a book that I was too lazy to read.

I think reading as many books as possible is a great way of educating yourself. I'm a big believer in education. Consequently I am very educated.

Why don't you "stick to what best works for you" and not spend so much effort rubbishing low-carbing?

 

[noblehead]

Why don't you "stick to what best works for you" and not spend so much effort rubbishing low-carbing?

Oh dear!!! ...................how strange you say that when I eat reduced carbs myself, when someone resorts to personal insults they are losing the argument.

You need to calm down Stephen, read a good book on relaxation techniques :wink:

 

[Robinredbreast]

Why don't you "stick to what best works for you" and not spend so much effort rubbishing low-carbing?

Oh dear!!! ...................how strange you say that when I eat reduced carbs myself, when someone resorts to personal insults they are losing the argument.

You need to calm down Stephen, read a good book on relaxation techniques :wink:

There are far too many personal insults on this forum, time and time again. When someone starts a thread about diet, doctors, gurus, low carbing, etc, its constant arguments............... and no, I dont have to read them and no I dont have to post a reply Would the same personal insults happen when face to face, or is it just an internet phenomenon:thumbdown: ?
I have read about Gary Taubes, the jury's still out on that. As for Mr Atkins, jurys out on that as well. As noblehead has said, go with what works for you. Best wishes RRB

 

[Paul_c]

makes me suspect there really are astroturfers and shills working in this forum and other forums whenever certain "alternate" to the accepted "mainstream" theories are touted... funny how the mere mention of certain diet guru names promptly flushes out attacks against them.